Trading out the core for a rebuild?

[tsanuri]

I agree, Doughty is the most talented player the Kings have on the roster.

I have my doubts about Doughty deciding to stick around when his deal expires. Doughty is very competitive and wants to win.

What if he won't re-sign when he becomes eligible for an extension? The Kings can't afford to lose him for nothing.

What type of message does that send to the rest of the team and even the league as a whole. You don't trade your best player and it turn out for the good very often. It does happen but it's very rare.
Now if near the trade deadline the year his contract is expiring and there's no deal done or you're far apart on numbers. Then you have to look at it. But not before then.

 

[KINGS17]

What type of message does that send to the rest of the team and even the league as a whole. You don't trade your best player and it turn out for the good very often. It does happen but it's very rare.
Now if near the trade deadline the year his contract is expiring and there's no deal done or you're far apart on numbers. Then you have to look at it. But not before then.

I am not saying Doughty won't sign. I'm saying if he doesn't sign. If you wait until the deadline, his value drops drastically.

I think it would be wise for the Kings to start assessing Doughty's willingness to hang around until some type of rebuild/reload takes place.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I am not saying Doughty won't sign. I'm saying if he doesn't sign. If you wait until the deadline, his value drops drastically.

I think it would be wise for the Kings to start assessing Doughty's willingness to hang around until some type of rebuild/reload takes place.

I'm sure management is aware of this issue, but we are not in a rebuild mode so its a moot point. As long as Kopitar, Carter, Quick, Pearson, Toffoli and Doughty are on this team, we will be competitive. I think this year should not be looked at as an example of where this team is going. This year was just a retool year, which I think was successful for that purpose. We kept all of our draft picks (swapped our 7th for a 5th in the Bishop trade, and swapped King with Iginla essentially), gave the youth a chance to play, and finally have a solid defense corps, unlike the past two years.

This summer will be critical for this Kings team's future. I think a buy out of Gaborik is mandatory at this point because we cannot sign both Pearson and Toffoli unless we do. And it will be necessary to get a top 6 forward, perhaps in a trade involving Martinez+. Also, I don't think Kopitar's slump this year will continue next year. The guy is too talented to continue in this trend. I don't see him becoming another Dustin Brown. With a coaching change and new voice in the room, I can even see Brown becoming a consistent 15-20 goal scorer (wishful thinking).

All and all, I am pretty optimistic about next year. I just hope that Brodzinsky gets a chance to play in the last 10 games of the season, since getting into the playoffs shouldn't be a priority this year.

 

[KINGS17]

I'm sure management is aware of this issue, but we are not in a rebuild mode so its a moot point. As long as Kopitar, Carter, Quick, Pearson, Toffoli and Doughty are on this team, we will be competitive. I think this year should not be looked at as an example of where this team is going. This year was just a retool year, which I think was successful for that purpose. We kept all of our draft picks (swapped our 7th for a 5th in the Bishop trade, and swapped King with Iginla essentially), gave the youth a chance to play, and finally have a solid defense corps, unlike the past two years.

This summer will be critical for this Kings team's future. I think a buy out of Gaborik is mandatory at this point because we cannot sign both Pearson and Toffoli unless we do. And it will be necessary to get a top 6 forward, perhaps in a trade involving Martinez+. Also, I don't think Kopitar's slump this year will continue next year. The guy is too talented to continue in this trend. I don't see him becoming another Dustin Brown. With a coaching change and new voice in the room, I can even see Brown becoming a consistent 15-20 goal scorer (wishful thinking).

All and all, I am pretty optimistic about next year. I just hope that Brodzinsky gets a chance to play in the last 10 games of the season, since getting into the playoffs shouldn't be a priority this year.

How about the last three years?

 

[AlphaBravo]

How about the last three years?

Nope. Neither the 2015 nor the 2016 teams had the defense corps we have this year. Setting your defensive pairs is one of the hardest things to do when building a competitive team. I am not saying this team is a stanley cup competitor, but its reminding me of the 2010-2011 Kings team, where our defense was set, but we just needed some offensive power.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

14/15 was a tumultuous season rife with off-ice scandals. You really can't judge 14/15 as a hockey year when the team was plainly and severely affected by non-hockey issues.

15/16 was a competitive year. The Kings ran into the best team in the west in the first round. Not sure why people look too much into that. The Kings were a good team. They got beat by a great team. Simple as that.

This year is the most disturbing by far. Sutter has clearly reached his shelf life as a coach. Dean finally jettisoned King. Kopitar career worst year. Etc.

16/17 suggests a major retool is in order much more than 14/15 or 15/16 did.

 

[LAKings88]

Last season they choked after clinching. They should have giving San Jose a better series.

Quick missed most of the year. They would be a playoff team had he not.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

14/15 was a tumultuous season rife with off-ice scandals. You really can't judge 14/15 as a hockey year when the team was plainly and severely affected by non-hockey issues.

15/16 was a competitive year. The Kings ran into the best team in the west in the first round. Not sure why people look too much into that. The Kings were a good team. They got beat by a great team. Simple as that.

This year is the most disturbing by far. Sutter has clearly reached his shelf life as a coach. Dean finally jettisoned King. Kopitar career worst year. Etc.

16/17 suggests a major retool is in order much more than 14/15 or 15/16 did.

Pretty much. People won't put much stock in regular season--as you shouldn't really when the Cup is the standard--but people seem to suggest this team has been various shades of bad when this is their history since 2010:

2010: 101 points
2011: 98 points
2012: 95 points
2013: 59 points, 100 point pace
2014: 100 points
2015: 95 points
2016: 102 points

2017 will be the first potential 'bad' year in a looooong time, and that's even considering the context for the last few circus acts.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is the lowest winning percentage the team has had since 2008-09.

 

[KingLB]

I am not saying Doughty won't sign. I'm saying if he doesn't sign. If you wait until the deadline, his value drops drastically.

I think it would be wise for the Kings to start assessing Doughty's willingness to hang around until some type of rebuild/reload takes place.

If you start the rebuild this summer, in my mind this is moving Carter/Martinez (obviously Brown/Gabo is someone will take). You have a full year to see how he takes it/desire to resign. If things go south, he could still be moved next summer for huge payday.

 

[KINGS17]

If you start the rebuild this summer, in my mind this is moving Carter/Martinez (obviously Brown/Gabo is someone will take). You have a full year to see how he takes it/desire to resign. If things go south, he could still be moved next summer for huge payday.

Agreed. I think to get Doughty on board for the long term Dean should discuss the moves you have mentioned beforehand.

 

[KingsFan7824]

If you start the rebuild this summer, in my mind this is moving Carter/Martinez (obviously Brown/Gabo is someone will take). You have a full year to see how he takes it/desire to resign. If things go south, he could still be moved next summer for huge payday.

If you're rebuilding this summer, then do it. Trade Carter, Toffoli, Pearson, Muzzin, and Martinez. Toffoli and Pearson won't have a more efficient points/contract ratio going forward. That's just paying more for less again. Might as well do Doughty too. They're stuck with Kopitar, Quick, Gaborik, and Brown. Keep them while the team bottoms out. By the time Gaborik and Brown are finally gone free and clear, since you do not buy them out or anything, because that's the wrong thing to do, as it's just keeping more dead cap space around, all the assets you get for the guys you can actually trade is hopefully a good foundation to carry an old Kopitar and Quick on overpaid contracts for a couple years.

 

[damacles1156]

Nope. Neither the 2015 nor the 2016 teams had the defense corps we have this year. Setting your defensive pairs is one of the hardest things to do when building a competitive team. I am not saying this team is a stanley cup competitor, but its reminding me of the 2010-2011 Kings team, where our defense was set, but we just needed some offensive power.

I would argue the Defense has been a problem this season.

They let goals in the back of the net in bunches, also they are soft as all hell.

 

[lumbergh]

I would argue the Defense has been a problem this season.

They let goals in the back of the net in bunches, also they are soft as all hell.

Hmm... You're talking about the team that allows the fewest shots per 60 minutes, fifth best in goals against. I mean, Muzzin and Martinez have not been strong defensively this season, but it's not a team-wide problem. You can argue it, but I'm not at all convinced right now that the defense has been a problem.

Goaltending hasn't been great, and shooting percentage is really low. I think there's a much better case to be made that the defense has been a bright spot. The offensive system and injuries have absolutely torpedoed this season, in my opinion.

 

[damacles1156]

Hmm... You're talking about the team that allows the fewest shots per 60 minutes, fifth best in goals against. I mean, Muzzin and Martinez have not been strong defensively this season, but it's not a team-wide problem. You can argue it, but I'm not at all convinced right now that the defense has been a problem.

Goaltending hasn't been great, and shooting percentage is really low. I think there's a much better case to be made that the defense has been a bright spot. The offensive system and injuries have absolutely torpedoed this season, in my opinion.

Down the stretch in must win games with Quick/Bishop tandem.

The Kings have given up 21 GA in Eight games. That's 2.6 GA average, that's not going to cut it. The month of February was 35 GA in 13 games, 2.7 GA.

 

[KINGS17]

The Kings defense gets a lot of help in terms of shot reduction by conscientious forwards like Kopitar, Lewis, etc. Almost every Kings forward is above average on the backcheck.

 

[damacles1156]

You can't be giving up almost 2.7-3GA a game, and expect to win, or do anything in the playoff's, or even make the playoff's.

That number needs to be down around 2.0 GA.

This season the Kings are on pace to allow about 2.2-2.3 GA., But down the stretch here, it's been bad.

Keep giving up goals like they are now though, could hit 2.5+GA for the season, which would be below average for the Kings.

 

[damacles1156]

The Kings defense gets a lot of help in terms of shot reduction by conscientious forwards like Kopitar, Lewis, etc. Almost every Kings forward is above average on the backcheck.

A huge problem with this roster right now is:

For some reason, these Kings players are not making anyone earn ice.

It's allowing speed/skill to kill you. You counter that, by hitting people, slowing them down, dislodging the puck.

Too many stick checks, fly-by hits.

 

[LeafGm]

I agree, Doughty is the most talented player the Kings have on the roster.

I have my doubts about Doughty deciding to stick around when his deal expires. Doughty is very competitive and wants to win.

What if he won't re-sign when he becomes eligible for an extension? The Kings can't afford to lose him for nothing.

From the perspective of an outsider looking in, I think you're way too far away from needing to worry about that yet. If next year was the last year of his deal, then maybe there would be some more urgency, but he's under contract for two more years. And for the moment, while the Kings do have some problems, they do still have the bones of a Cup contending lineup (#1 & #2 C, elite #1 D, #1 goalie).

If the Kings can manage to clear out at least one of the guys that's taking up a portion of your cap that's disproportionate to their on-ice contributions (Gaborik, Brown), make some improvements to your depth and perhaps take a fresh run at things next year with a new voice behind the bench and a core group that should be well rested (no playoffs, no World Cup prior to next season), things could be looking very different 12 months from today.

If things go sideways again next year, and Doughty indicates after the season that he's looking either to move on or test the UFA market rather than sign an extension, only at that point do you even begin contemplate moving him, IMO. Because Doughty's the kind of player you're looking to replace the moment you've dealt him away, and who your franchise might not see the likes of again for another generation or two. And that's why, even if he won't sign an extension right away, you might still be better off hanging on to him than trading him away for the typical "rental player" return. It's just so rare that a player like Doughty actually decides to leave his team. Suter/Parise going to Minnesota in 2012 is probably the most recent example, and who knows if they would've gone had they not been able to sign their 13-year, heavily front-loaded cap-circumventing contracts.

 

[KINGS17]

I am not advocating trading Doughty this summer. Lombardi should be talking to Doughty now about what the future holds though.

The Kings may not be contenders again for several years.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I listen to NHL radio everyday and the consensus is the Kings are slow.

 

[raswilliam]

Blow it up and start the tank. this team is going nowhere fast.

 

[KingsFan7824]

You can't be giving up almost 2.7-3GA a game, and expect to win, or do anything in the playoff's, or even make the playoff's.

That number needs to be down around 2.0 GA.

This season the Kings are on pace to allow about 2.2-2.3 GA., But down the stretch here, it's been bad.

Keep giving up goals like they are now though, could hit 2.5+GA for the season, which would be below average for the Kings.

It's also a lot of first goals against too. It's not a new thing though. It's been a while since they were really that good defensively. They didn't win in 2014 with defense.

3 rookies on defense. 3/4 more veteran guys on D not playing great. They've replaced Lucic's 20 goals, but are missing 32 goals between Kopitar and Toffoli. Add in Andreoff's 8 goals from last year, and that's now 40 goals missing.

Right now they're on pace to score 23 fewer goals as a team than last year. 23 over 82 games. That's basically 1 more goal per player than what they have right now. That doesn't seem like too big of a mountain to climb.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I listen to NHL radio everyday and the consensus is the Kings are slow.

I'm not sold on that, I've seen the team play 'fast' depending on the opponent. I think it's the system that dictates the pace and the system needs to change.

 

[Bandit]

I'm not sold on that, I've seen the team play 'fast' depending on the opponent. I think it's the system that dictates the pace and the system needs to change.

Nah it's not the system, it's the effort the players put forth. This year the effort has been pathetic.