Trading out the core for a rebuild?

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Kopitar, Toffoli, Muzzin, Martinez are a problem so yes it is a core problem. It could be coaching as well but what does that say about them?

With Toffoli, I think he's playing hurt, so yea a sucky year but I'm not sure about a problem. Kopitar also has issues, but he was also injured and has looked off in general since then. We'll see about him.

Muzzin has been a problem. He's been healthy, picked for a national team, and so on, and he's just went back to what he looked like when he first came up. Between the ears for him, IMO.

Not sure Martinez is an issue. He's right there with Doughty in scoring, he's just pushing the play more so he is sacrificing a little defense. He's at least picked it up (like he always does) when games get bigger, 6 points in his last 5 games and a +3. He's only sucked with Muzzin, they are like matter and anti-matter.
 
I doubt much of anything would come back for Quick. There's just no market for goalies. Schneider brought back the 9th overall pick, and it didn't make NJ any more competitive. What contending team needs a $6m cap hit goalie? What rebuilding team needs an older $6m cap hit goalie? Especially with a handful of UFA goalies in the summer.

They're stuck with Quick, Kopitar, Brown, and Gaborik. They could trade Carter, Doughty, Toffoli, Pearson, Muzzin, and Martinez.
 
If we do a continued rebuild like we've done with the defense, the odds are likely we trade a Dman like Muzzin or Amart.. So my question is this

1- Could trading Muzzin get us a 1st rounder and a nice prospect??

2- Would a team be willing to acquire Brown/Gaborik for a 1st rounder and 20%-25% retention? looking at LV here

3- Could Carter get us a Top Prospect, 1st rounder and a NHL player..he's way better and cheaper than Lucic
would absolutely hate this option btw

If its 1 & 2 the we would be in good shape cap wise but with a bunch of kids and maybe thats what we need.. hungry, fresh players that have already played in our system down in Ontario..also was are the odds we can sign TT cheaper with his off year???

Kempe-Kopitar-Gaborik
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Lewis-Hanzal-Brodzinski
Shore-Dowd-Nolan?? not sure about this line

Forbort-Doughty
Muzzin-LaDue
Gravel-???

Quick
 
The core, for me (and that differs among NHL fans) is a stud goalie, an elite defenseman a dominant Ppg #1 center and solid 2 way #2 center, the four columns on which a contender can build upon. That is the recipe I've seen over my many years of watching this game that is the one that is the most fruitful

For the Kings that would be Quick, DD, Kopi and Carter.

Quick - he's only 31 , good paper and good numbers. No reason to trade him. What they need to do is start drafting goalies, at least 1 this year and have a good crop out there so if 3 years, one of those young'uns can be his backup for a year or 2 and then take over.

DD- 28 next year and at least 8 more ahead as a top d, given his IQ, vision, physical game , leadership (in spades) and other assets. 2 yrs left on his deal, so not this year. but next summer he's going into his last year. So he'll be 30 when a new deal starts. By next summer the Kings GM should have an idea from DD's agent what he's looking for. And as has been mentioned, if DD wants to move on (no secret he loves Toronto and by then they look to be one of the better teams trending up) and indicates he won't sign, that would be the time to trade him, with 1 yr left. They'd get a boatload back. The path is up to him.

Kopitar- going nowhere , esp with 7 more yrs at 10M

Carter- tough call, he's been one of the most consistent and reliable goal scorers in the NHL over the last decade. Since coming to LA, he's changed a lot, matured ,redefined his game. He's a vital piece of this teams successes, esp this year, without him they are looking up at the Coyotes. But he'll be 33 next yr and not unlike Iggy in his early 30's, it's tough to separate the emotional attachment to the business side. Where he'd fit best for me, would be a contender who is very close, has the other pieces in place, esp goaltending, to win a cup in the next 2 -3 years. That would be a good fit for him, he'd bring the numbers and the leadership, experience. And depending on the team and how many GM's value centers, you could get overpayment. What they should get, a top center/winger 23 or so, a top prospect and a top pick. Teams that could use him, the Habs, the Sens, the Preds and the Flames. When (for me not if) the Caps fail again this year, the GM last yr said if they didn't win the cup, there would be major changes. Depending on who moves out, he might look at JC as a piece that would make a difference. Of even the Leafs, who could move Bozak (not to the Kings, a separate move which has been rumored) and JC brings them the vet. leadership they need and he's played for Babs before. leafs have enough pieces they could move and they want a defenseman, maybe the Kings could package JC with Muzzin.

For all we know, GM's might have called, most of them do, and DL didn't want to do that. But a new GM might have different ideas of where he wants this team to go and who he wants on the roster to do it. The might be going younger. And as with most GM', they want their own coach.

And maybe he sees Kempe as that #2 , a talented kid who needs minutes and experience, stability with the same linemates, such as TP and TT. That would be a good young line to build on.

I think they can refocus, retool and reshape into a new vision. But that requires a really good GM who had to lead the way and a coach who can give the team a system that will flourish in the current and future NHL
 
I don't recall a team trading away players with the caliber of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick and Carter and choosing to go with a rebuild. I think this would be the kind of thing where ownership steps in and puts an end to that nonsense. I'd like to be a fly on the wall if Lombardi goes up to Anschutz to bring up this idea. I can see an argument for just Carter, but multiple moves involving these players? Not a chance.

What has really brought this team down this season is that the top players are not performing sans Pearson, Carter and Doughty. When I see multiple players struggling at the same time, then I personally think its the coaching. And I do think for some players having a new voice is refreshing. RJ has touched upon it in various threads, but 5 years is a long time and the message can get a bit stale. No doubt that changes are needed in management and personnel though.
 
1- Could trading Muzzin get us a 1st rounder and a nice prospect??

I would imagine it would depend on the team. Is it a top 10 pick team? Is it this year's draft which is considered to be less than great? The 2018 draft?

2- Would a team be willing to acquire Brown/Gaborik for a 1st rounder and 20%-25% retention? looking at LV here

If Brown/Gaborik had 1 year left on their deals, sure. Look at Carolina with Bickell, or Arizona with Datsyuk. Brown/Gaborik are signed for another 4 and 5 years though. That's not worth just one 1st round pick. Keep adding. Keep retaining. Doesn't matter if it's an expansion team or not. They're not there just to take crap. They'll get enough players close to that in the draft itself. You want them to take a bad contract for years on top of all that, you have to pay. Retain another 25%. Throw in one of the young defensemen. Maybe another high pick of some kind. That's what I would want anyway. The Kings aren't the side with leverage in that scenario.

3- Could Carter get us a Top Prospect, 1st rounder and a NHL player..he's way better and cheaper than Lucic
would absolutely hate this option btw

Probably. Something close to that anyway.
 
tweet from Blob McKenzie, 24 hours ago:

As noted in story, two prominent UFAs - forward Aston-Reese (NU) and defenceman Bayreuther (SLU) - likely to sign in next 24-48 hours.

I hope the Kings' Blake and others - possibly DL, have paid a visit
to Aston-Reese and trying to get him to sign.

signed a contract with the Penguins today.

Bayreuther has (according to TSN a couple days ago) 4 teams very interested (stars, devils, sabres, avs) but was weighing his options.

And John Stevens son, also named John has drawn some NHL interest. He was Aston-Reese's linemate along with his brother Nolan Stevens.

Another good defensive center, good 2 way player and top faceoff standout is Mike Vecchione of Union is expected to draw some NHL interest.
 
Way too soon to blow anything up. I'm still blaming that stupid WC, too much hockey too soon, all the guys came back from that flat. I'm ok with a coaching change. I doubt if the front office will do it though.

If the team is poor again next year you might make some real changes.
 
You make a coaching change before you make major personnel moves. It's simply the logical thing to do.

It should have been done already.
 
I would imagine it would depend on the team. Is it a top 10 pick team? Is it this year's draft which is considered to be less than great? The 2018 draft?



If Brown/Gaborik had 1 year left on their deals, sure. Look at Carolina with Bickell, or Arizona with Datsyuk. Brown/Gaborik are signed for another 4 and 5 years though. That's not worth just one 1st round pick. Keep adding. Keep retaining. Doesn't matter if it's an expansion team or not. They're not there just to take crap. They'll get enough players close to that in the draft itself. You want them to take a bad contract for years on top of all that, you have to pay. Retain another 25%. Throw in one of the young defensemen. Maybe another high pick of some kind. That's what I would want anyway. The Kings aren't the side with leverage in that scenario.



Probably. Something close to that anyway.

My second question is tied to the first in that say we could get a high 1st rounder for Muzzin in this draft... would Las Vegas or another cap floor team be enticed with say
Marian Gaborik plus 25% retention on our part
a top 15 pick ( Jake Muzzin Trade)
Brayden McNabb??
Michael Mersch( if he's not going to be called up might as well use him as a trade chip)

Gabo -$3.656 million
Muzzin -$4 million
McNabb- $1.7 million
Total of 9.356 million plus what is currently projected
 
Even with a coaching change, I'd waive or buy out Gaborik if I can't trade him. Maybe he'd bounce to Europe instead of riding the bus from Ontario to Bakersfield? I'd move Carter, strictly a business decision. Maybe you could pry Pageau, a 1st in 2018 and another prospect from Ottawa? I d also move Martinez but any deal would have to be made with the idea of its not a burn it down rebuild. It's a reload on the fly. The roster already has a 19 year old center and 3 rookie dmen. Moving Carter and Martinez in the right kind of deal could be beneficial.
 
I doubt much of anything would come back for Quick. There's just no market for goalies. Schneider brought back the 9th overall pick, and it didn't make NJ any more competitive. What contending team needs a $6m cap hit goalie? What rebuilding team needs an older $6m cap hit goalie?

Stars, Jets, Canes, Flyers, Islanders,...

Literally half the league could use Quick.

Question is, why would the Kings trade Quick unless they're gonna blow the whole team up and suck for 3 years?
 
Not the most popular idea but would this trade have a chance in hell of being acceptable to either team??

KINGS
Evander Kane
2017 1st rounder #10 overall currently

SABRES
Jake Muzzin
Nic Dowd..rights
3rd rounder..2nd if he resigns.

Also, what are the odds we could sign both Person and Toffoli at the same rate??? say..
both at $4.5 x 4/5 years...
Pearson has blossomed while Toffoli has regressed and cost himself millions... or we looking at 2 sets of bridge contracts???
 
I just don't like Kane. He doesn't bring this roster anything it doesn't already have. He's not particularly creative or skilled. He's just another Dustin Brown but with off-ice concerns. If we're looking to upgrade the top-six in particular, there has to be another way.
 
Kopitar probably played/is playing through a broken wrist, he also won he Selke last year
Doughty won the Norris just last year
Quick is still on his game although his longevity is in question
Jeff Carter scored 30 this year.


yeah, trading away the core seems like a great idea guys :laugh::shakehead
 
Kings won't trade Kopitar, Doughty, Carter or Quick.

If we miss the playoffs, Lombardi just has to clear house around them - which FINALLY he has started to do.

Kings can start giving the kids a shot and not spend money on crappy UFA's.

The problem is the Gaborik and Brown contracts, if Lombardi can get out of one of those it changes the whole game.

The Kings will have to make a run at a UFA winger to play with Kopi next year unless they re-sign Iginla to a one year deal (which I am not opposed to the way he has played).

This how the roster will likely look next year:

Brown-Kopitar-Gaborik
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Mersh-Kempe-Lewis
Andreoff/Clifford-Dowd-Nolan/Brodzinski

BUT, if the Kings can clip Gaborik or Brown, it gives them more cap flexibility and a for sure spot for a Brodzinski or allow him to play in a top 9 role.
 
The core, for me (and that differs among NHL fans) is a stud goalie, an elite defenseman a dominant Ppg #1 center and solid 2 way #2 center, the four columns on which a contender can build upon. That is the recipe I've seen over my many years of watching this game that is the one that is the most fruitful

For the Kings that would be Quick, DD, Kopi and Carter.

Quick - he's only 31 , good paper and good numbers. No reason to trade him. What they need to do is start drafting goalies, at least 1 this year and have a good crop out there so if 3 years, one of those young'uns can be his backup for a year or 2 and then take over.

DD- 28 next year and at least 8 more ahead as a top d, given his IQ, vision, physical game , leadership (in spades) and other assets. 2 yrs left on his deal, so not this year. but next summer he's going into his last year. So he'll be 30 when a new deal starts. By next summer the Kings GM should have an idea from DD's agent what he's looking for. And as has been mentioned, if DD wants to move on (no secret he loves Toronto and by then they look to be one of the better teams trending up) and indicates he won't sign, that would be the time to trade him, with 1 yr left. They'd get a boatload back. The path is up to him.

Kopitar- going nowhere , esp with 7 more yrs at 10M

Carter- tough call, he's been one of the most consistent and reliable goal scorers in the NHL over the last decade. Since coming to LA, he's changed a lot, matured ,redefined his game. He's a vital piece of this teams successes, esp this year, without him they are looking up at the Coyotes. But he'll be 33 next yr and not unlike Iggy in his early 30's, it's tough to separate the emotional attachment to the business side. Where he'd fit best for me, would be a contender who is very close, has the other pieces in place, esp goaltending, to win a cup in the next 2 -3 years. That would be a good fit for him, he'd bring the numbers and the leadership, experience. And depending on the team and how many GM's value centers, you could get overpayment. What they should get, a top center/winger 23 or so, a top prospect and a top pick. Teams that could use him, the Habs, the Sens, the Preds and the Flames. When (for me not if) the Caps fail again this year, the GM last yr said if they didn't win the cup, there would be major changes. Depending on who moves out, he might look at JC as a piece that would make a difference. Of even the Leafs, who could move Bozak (not to the Kings, a separate move which has been rumored) and JC brings them the vet. leadership they need and he's played for Babs before. leafs have enough pieces they could move and they want a defenseman, maybe the Kings could package JC with Muzzin.

For all we know, GM's might have called, most of them do, and DL didn't want to do that. But a new GM might have different ideas of where he wants this team to go and who he wants on the roster to do it. The might be going younger. And as with most GM', they want their own coach.

And maybe he sees Kempe as that #2 , a talented kid who needs minutes and experience, stability with the same linemates, such as TP and TT. That would be a good young line to build on.

I think they can refocus, retool and reshape into a new vision. But that requires a really good GM who had to lead the way and a coach who can give the team a system that will flourish in the current and future NHL

Toronto fan visiting your boards specifically wondering what King's fans mindsets were on trading Doughty. I didn't want to make a thread in the trade section.

If you felt your window was closed and Doughty is up for grabs I imagine Nylander+Nielsen (our top defense prospect)+1st is on the table to start and potentially another 1st or 2nd if Doughty signs an extension (we'd need some reassurances he'd have an interest). I feel like in the above scenario this gets the conversation rolling. 3-4 assets for Los Angeles to start with.

Other assets are negotiable, pretty much the only names off the table are Matthews and Marner.

Thanks
 
Toronto fan visiting your boards specifically wondering what King's fans mindsets were on trading Doughty. I didn't want to make a thread in the trade section.

If you felt your window was closed and Doughty is up for grabs I imagine Nylander+Nielsen (our top defense prospect)+1st is on the table to start and potentially another 1st or 2nd if Doughty signs an extension (we'd need some reassurances he'd have an interest). I feel like in the above scenario this gets the conversation rolling. 3-4 assets for Los Angeles to start with.

Other assets are negotiable, pretty much the only names off the table are Matthews and Marner.

Thanks

No condition on the picks if Marner is off the table.
 
I just don't like Kane. He doesn't bring this roster anything it doesn't already have. He's not particularly creative or skilled. He's just another Dustin Brown but with off-ice concerns. If we're looking to upgrade the top-six in particular, there has to be another way.

Viewing it as a rental of a player who could shine with us and then possibly be flipped for a Lucic type return in season while also allowing us one of 2 much needs things..

1- we would have 2 top 15 picks in a weak draft to help restock the pipeline...

2- this really hurts but we could package both picks and a contract like Brownie or Gabo without any retention on our part and clear $10 million in cap space for a total of $23 million in space???

Kane-Kopitar-Gaborik

Pearson-Carter-Toffoli

Lewis-Kempe-Brodzinski

Mersch-Shore-Nolan

Forbort-Doughty

Alzner-LaDue

Gravel-Martinez

McNabb-Greene

Quick

Campbell

sign Alzner to be a shut down top 4 paired with LaDue and possible resign Kane if he gets it together or anyone we want really if we make that much salary disappear... Maybe even Martin Hanzal as our #3 center and let shore go....
 
I'm sure it doesn't seem like this now, but a lot of good came out of this season. For the first time in the last 2-3 years, we finally have our defense set again. LaDue, Gravel, and Forbort have been awesome and will only get better as they get experience. I am glad DL realizes that this is a retool year, and gave the young kids a chance to play.

Another important thing to note from this year is that it is finally time for a coaching change. Sutter has been awesome, but when nearly the entire team (except for Carter and Pearson) is woefully underperforming, you have to fire the coach because you cannot trade your entire time. Gaborik's regression is understandable because of his age, but I am certain that guys like Toffoli, Kopitar, Muzzin, Martinez, and maybe even Brown, can play at a way higher level if there is a shake up in the systems and coaching.

With respect to next year, I am in the camp of trading one of Muzzin or Martinez either directly for a top 6 winger (with adds if necessary) or trading one of these defenseman for a very high draft pick and either using the pick to get a top 6 winger, or using the pick as a trade with another team.

Moreover, I crunched the numbers on CapFriendly, and even if we trade Muzzin or Martinez, we likely wont have cap space to bring in a top 6 forward unless DL buys out Gaborik. I know it will suck down the road, but it appears that this is a move he has to make (unless by miracle Vegas takes him or Brown with us giving them an overpayment of picks etc.).

Lastly, I am happy that DL kept all of our draft picks, including the 1st rounder. Hopefully these picks lead to roster players in 3 years and further replenish this team.
 
2 more years after the current season.


Yea, he's worth more than that.

Nylander
Nielsen
1st round

and another 1st+2nd if he re-signs with us is a lot.

The only problem with him having 2 years after this is we can't talk extension right away, that could catastrophic for the franchise if he were to depart.

The trade offer is probably in the Pronger to the Flyers return rate right? Give or take? Not trying to "rip" anyone off on the boards, just enjoy the hockey talk and want to piece together what would represent real world value.
 
Nylander
Nielsen
1st round

and another 1st+2nd if he re-signs with us is a lot.

The only problem with him having 2 years after this is we can't talk extension right away, that could catastrophic for the franchise if he were to depart.

The trade offer is probably in the Pronger to the Flyers return rate right? Give or take? Not trying to "rip" anyone off on the boards, just enjoy the hockey talk and want to piece together what would represent real world value.

I'd want a potential stud D coming back in any trade for Doughty.
 

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