Trades & Free Agency Thread - Still Too Soon Off-Season Edition

[ToneDog]

goes to show you how tough columbus was with those guys moving on. losing players for whatever reason is part of the game, unfortunately.

That I agree with. The last two series shows me that Leafs have proven they cannot/will not match work ethic and refuse to play outside their comfort zone. They were better vs Bruins and Caps.

 

[showtime8]

He should.
All 10mil plus players in the league should not need another 10mil plus players by their side to make them look good.

I guess my question would be, why does it matter what a player makes? Who cares if you put 3 players on a line together that make a combined total of 3 mill. or 30 mill. You're trying to make the roster the best for overall team success.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trading Marner for better roster construction. But losing sight of his true value when we're pissed at him and expecting that they can replace him with essentially anyone is a bit foolish.

 

[TheBigFour]

Why anyone who says they hate this team confounds the heck out of me. Why are you here? What are you gaining by simply bitching? Offer something that can be discussed, argued, laughed at, enjoyed, mocked...anything other than saying "I hate this team", are you a masochist? You hate a supposed friend, you bail. You don't like where you live, you move. Your job sucks, you look for a new one. Hanging around here must be so depressing for you, look for something that brings you happiness, it seems not to be here.

agree, some people are just too negative.
its been over a month since leafs were eliminated and yet some posters are still bitching like they lost yesterday.
For crying out aloud, move on
sports suppose to be fun, not something that should stress you out.

 

[ToneDog]

I guess my question would be, why does it matter what a player makes? Who cares if you put 3 players on a line together that make a combined total of 3 mill. or 30 mill. You're trying to make the roster the best for overall team success.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trading Marner for better roster construction. But losing sight of his true value when we're pissed at him and expecting that they can replace him with essentially anyone is a bit foolish.

The cap is why it matters. The more money you spend on one line the less you can the others. As things stand now we can't afford more than $6-$8m on our bottom 6, not to mention much for another goalie. Unless the pipeline starts to produce players who can step in, you are continually shopping for UFA bargains. Not the way to build a team.

 

[myleafs]

In 2 years the Kraken will be better than the Leafs.

2 yrs?....Im getting a bad feeling it will be this yr.

 

[Carltons Cup]

That I agree with. The last two series shows me that Leafs have proven they cannot/will not match work ethic and refuse to play outside their comfort zone. They were better vs Bruins and Caps.

Against the bruins and caps, they were playing for the next big contract. Now that they have the big contract, what's left to play for?

 

[LaPlante94]

i dont know, go ask those people.

you wrote all that and didnt say what the problem is.

whos using excuses? they didnt just run into hot goalies. they ran into good teams. boston twice (who went to the finals 1 year), washington who won the cup and columbus who was a good team and swept tampa. i get it that its easy to lay blame on everything but people seriously need to take a break from this cesspool of a leafs section and go outside. if being a GM was so easy we would all do the job. nothing wrong with being dissapointed. people need to use a little common sense and realize that it takes as much luck as it does skill to win a cup. and sometimes, just sometimes it takes patience. ive watched quite a lot of hockey in 35+ years and trust me id rather watch this team then some of those shitty ass leafs teams in the past.

We put up better fights against those better teams in Boston and even Washington when we were really the underdogs. Columbus and Montreal aren't even close to those teams and Columbus lost Panarin their best forward and their top goalie after they swept Tampa. They beat us with Dubois, Atkinson and Foligno as their top 3 forwards pretty much. I've said in the past what our problems were and that was coaching and our highest paid players not showing up which has been an issue now for 2 playoff series against much weaker teams. I just think that 10.9 million we spend on a playmaking winger can be much better spent throughout our lineup since we got 2 #1 centers pretty much who can make their wingers better and we have Nylander who I'll say has been better than Marner at a much cheaper cap hit. I'd much rather have a guy like Nylander who makes 6.9 mil to drive his own line if we put him on the 3rd line over a guy who makes 10.9 mil.

 

[LaPlante94]

I guess my question would be, why does it matter what a player makes? Who cares if you put 3 players on a line together that make a combined total of 3 mill. or 30 mill. You're trying to make the roster the best for overall team success.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trading Marner for better roster construction. But losing sight of his true value when we're pissed at him and expecting that they can replace him with essentially anyone is a bit foolish.

We haven't lost sight of his value, but we just know teams will buy high with him because he does put up assists playing with Matthews and that 10.9 million could be spent much better on our team and make us a deeper team like Tampa Bay. You move Marner, Holl, Engvall and maybe even Kerfoot you free up around 17 million to spend on our depth. Hell, if Dubas wants Hamilton so bad he could move Rielly and bring Hamilton in for around 7-8 mil and that'd leave around 14 mil to make our depth much better.

 

[myleafs]

They people that hate Marner will hate Marner .
They won't see the incredible talent that he is.
You can bitch about the contract but not the talent.

I was Marners biggest fan and compared some of his skillset to 99. His contract negotiations def left a sour taste in my mouth but it was still clear he has some serious skills, but we are starting to see his warts, 0 goals in 18 playoff games, 0 pp goals in his last 73 games in spite of getting more pp time than anyone else. His timidness in the playoffs, brain fart over the glass penalties etc.

His game in the regular season so far doesn't translate well to the playoffs and actually seems to be getting worse each season so what is he then, an excellent regular season player and a average to below average playoff player? His inability to elevate his game or even to maintain his regular season game in the post season def puts into question his skills. The massive contract/caphit just shines the spotlight even brighter on him.

His lack of social awareness (posting pics from his holidays while the leafs playoffs just ended) and saying he thinks he did ok and wont be working on anything different in the off season combined with his tone deaf responses to legit questions and concerns makes it harder and harder to be in his corner. He doesn't do himself any favors when he opens his mouth, he makes things worse.

He isn't displaying traits that I look for in a true warrior and instead is coming across like an entitled brat. Is he skilled? Sure of course, but he is looking more and more like someone who might not help us reach the promised land.

 

[Kurtz]

Against the bruins and caps, they were playing for the next big contract. Now that they have the big contract, what's left to play for?

The mindset that you have is not shared by most successful athletes. The reason they got to where they are is that they have a competitive drive that most of us do not.

 

[myleafs]

agree, some people are just too negative.
its been over a month since leafs were eliminated and yet some posters are still bitching like they lost yesterday.
For crying out aloud, move on
sports suppose to be fun, not something that should stress you out.

I don't know you but I wonder why it bothers you so much what other people say or feel about a player or the team. You can feel whatever you feel, its all good. Is it because there is some truth to what is being said or because maybe Marner is your favorite player? I mean I get it to an extent. As an example, I was a big Wellwood fan and that was not a popular opinion around here at one point. I didn't particularly enjoy reading peoples opinions endlessly bashing him but its just the way it is. It didn't change my opinion about him though I began to understand why people felt the way they did. I don't think things would be as interesting around here if we all shared the exact same views. .

 

[shortfuze]

We put up better fights against those better teams in Boston and even Washington when we were really the underdogs. Columbus and Montreal aren't even close to those teams and Columbus lost Panarin their best forward and their top goalie after they swept Tampa. They beat us with Dubois, Atkinson and Foligno as their top 3 forwards pretty much. I've said in the past what our problems were and that was coaching and our highest paid players not showing up which has been an issue now for 2 playoff series against much weaker teams. I just think that 10.9 million we spend on a playmaking winger can be much better spent throughout our lineup since we got 2 #1 centers pretty much who can make their wingers better and we have Nylander who I'll say has been better than Marner at a much cheaper cap hit. I'd much rather have a guy like Nylander who makes 6.9 mil to drive his own line if we put him on the 3rd line over a guy who makes 10.9 mil.

I agree with you about Marner. His money could definitely be used in other areas to round out the team. My only issue is that I would rather keep him instead of losing a trade. I’m not saying that it would happen. Me personally if you can trade him with no cap dumps coming back and it’s fair value, Dubas should explore the idea.

 

[Gabriel426]

I guess my question would be, why does it matter what a player makes? Who cares if you put 3 players on a line together that make a combined total of 3 mill. or 30 mill. You're trying to make the roster the best for overall team success.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trading Marner for better roster construction. But losing sight of his true value when we're pissed at him and expecting that they can replace him with essentially anyone is a bit foolish.

It matters due to having a salary Cap.
Like Marner and AM getting a combine of 14 points in 4 games, those are pretty good numbers, but it could also mean they produced 7 goals in 4 games. But if they are on separate lines, it could mean they help generated 14 goals in 4 games. I think generating 14 goals in 4 games is better than 7 goals in 4 games.
Marner might get 100pts in the regular season playing with AM, while say Engvall and Soup might get 20pts each playing on a different line. Thats a total of 140 points. Lets say Marner can double Engvall and Soup production while getting 80pts. That a total of 160pts. That 20 more points.
On top of that, it creates depth and will be harder for opposing teams to shut down the Leafs like they did over the past two seasons.
It is not a given that trading Marner means Leafs will win the Cup, heck, if it is that simple, I would trade the whole team barring Marincin if it means Leafs winning the Cup.
I don't think Marner is the only problem on the Leafs but he is part of it. Actually everyone on the Leafs is part of the problem bc they have not done anything in the playoffs.
It all depends on the package coming back in any trades. People often lose sight in winning a trade without even knowing what winning a trade really means. Winning a trade is about having a better chance at winning the Cup.
If trading Marner or AM or JT end up getting picks and someone like JT Miller back, while Leafs use the cap saving and signed some non super star UFAs but end up winning the Cup, thats a huge WIN in that trade even if the player leaving the Leafs end up winning HART, ART ROSS, ROCKET....Bc the only award that matters is the Cup. We see how the media said Leafs have the longest Cup drought a few days ago, but I never heard the media will say stuff like Team X have the longest drought in Hart trophy winner or Art Ross winner.....

 

[showtime8]

We haven't lost sight of his value, but we just know teams will buy high with him because he does put up assists playing with Matthews and that 10.9 million could be spent much better on our team and make us a deeper team like Tampa Bay. You move Marner, Holl, Engvall and maybe even Kerfoot you free up around 17 million to spend on our depth. Hell, if Dubas wants Hamilton so bad he could move Rielly and bring Hamilton in for around 7-8 mil and that'd leave around 14 mil to make our depth much better.

He put up assists playing with both Matthews and Tavares.

I'm not suggesting you specifically @LaPlante94 , but a lot of people suggesting that you can put anyone with Matthews/Tavares and they should succeed, except for the fact that Thornton finished the season with 20 points, yet averaged the 5th most ice time on the power play amongst forwards. And they even tried Mikheyev, Vesey & Simmonds along the left wing with Matthews and Marner, but they never stuck. So I think there should be an argument for actually being able to find players that can play top 6 minutes and put up points.

Yeah, I think there can be a lot of moves to spread the wealth throughout the line-up.

I truly think that they find a trade with Philly where they get Konecny and Farabee. I'm not sure what else is added to the deal, but having those 2 players in the line-up, reduces some salary. And they will likely be losing JVR's contract in expansion...

 

[VanW27]

He put up assists playing with both Matthews and Tavares.

I'm not suggesting you specifically @LaPlante94 , but a lot of people suggesting that you can put anyone with Matthews/Tavares and they should succeed, except for the fact that Thornton finished the season with 20 points, yet averaged the 5th most ice time on the power play amongst forwards. And they even tried Mikheyev, Vesey & Simmonds along the left wing with Matthews and Marner, but they never stuck. So I think there should be an argument for actually being able to find players that can play top 6 minutes and put up points.

Yeah, I think there can be a lot of moves to spread the wealth throughout the line-up.

I truly think that they find a trade with Philly where they get Konecny and Farabee. I'm not sure what else is added to the deal, but having those 2 players in the line-up, reduces some salary. And they will likely be losing JVR's contract in expansion...

Philly likes to make a splash, I'd like that deal although I don't know if Marner is the type of player the Flyers would target. I'd guess they'd want us to take back Ghost as well.

To Anaheim for something based around Comtois is another deal that I think makes senses. They have some other pieces that could put a deal together (High 1st, Rackell, Zegras - although he may be off limits for them) and tons of cap space, most of which they are likely to be happy to leave empty and/or filled up by a contract with higher cap than actual dollars.

 

[LaPlante94]

He put up assists playing with both Matthews and Tavares.

I'm not suggesting you specifically @LaPlante94 , but a lot of people suggesting that you can put anyone with Matthews/Tavares and they should succeed, except for the fact that Thornton finished the season with 20 points, yet averaged the 5th most ice time on the power play amongst forwards. And they even tried Mikheyev, Vesey & Simmonds along the left wing with Matthews and Marner, but they never stuck. So I think there should be an argument for actually being able to find players that can play top 6 minutes and put up points.

Yeah, I think there can be a lot of moves to spread the wealth throughout the line-up.

I truly think that they find a trade with Philly where they get Konecny and Farabee. I'm not sure what else is added to the deal, but having those 2 players in the line-up, reduces some salary. And they will likely be losing JVR's contract in expansion...

All 3 of those guys are guys at league minimum deals pretty much though. Can't really expect much from them offensively but unfortunately we kind of have to and hope they do. A few teams might be interested. If Tkachuk really wants out in Calgary then that could be a good move. I suggested Forsberg from Nashville who I think would be a very good target. Then possibly sign Granlund as a FA. Forsberg and Granlund added to the top 6 sounds really good imo. I do like Farabee too and Konecny.

 

[TML1967]

Philly likes to make a splash, I'd like that deal although I don't know if Marner is the type of player the Flyers would target. I'd guess they'd want us to take back Ghost as well.

To Anaheim for something based around Comtois is another deal that I think makes senses. They have some other pieces that could put a deal together (High 1st, Rackell, Zegras - although he may be off limits for them) and tons of cap space, most of which they are likely to be happy to leave empty and/or filled up by a contract with higher cap than actual dollars.

If you can find a way to get a Comtois + Terry +1st for Marner + ? I would be very happy. Comtois is a great two way guy who is showing the flashes of briliance he had in the WJC, Terry offensively hasnt grown amazingly but is a very good defensive player. The 1st gets you one of Hughes / Guenther / Eklund.
You save (even after signing Comtois) probably 5m aav, which can go to shoring up more spots in the lineup.

 

[showtime8]

All 3 of those guys are guys at league minimum deals pretty much though. Can't really expect much from them offensively but unfortunately we kind of have to and hope they do. A few teams might be interested. If Tkachuk really wants out in Calgary then that could be a good move. I suggested Forsberg from Nashville who I think would be a very good target. Then possibly sign Granlund as a FA. Forsberg and Granlund added to the top 6 sounds really good imo. I do like Farabee too and Konecny.

Right, those guys aren't making a ton of money, but who are the Leafs finding to fill those roles anyways? Specifically, who did the Leafs miss out on by not having enough cap space to spend it? The few guys that made impacts through free agency the past couple of years are Toffoli in Montreal had a really nice year, Taylor Hall maybe? Even if you have the money to spend, the players still have to be there to be signed or even be available through trade. So yes, he's overpaid, but who else is available to be put in the line-up?

With Forsberg, I think that Nashville would have to add in a lot to make it worth the price for the Leafs.

I've long been on the Philly trade because I think it works out well for both teams. Although the Leafs get a guy in Konecny that probably maxes out at a 70 point guy and hasn't done squat in the playoffs and they take a shot on a guy like Farabee that looks to be a good top 6 player.

 

[Jozay]

 

[myleafs]

So I'm anticipating him getting 6+ from the leafs then.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Wonder if Burns would want to come home and eventually retire here.

Would pay a decent amount for Burns @ $4-5 mil. A good point shot is something we are seriously lacking. Especially on our power play

 

[hamzarocks]

Either Dreger just got hired by Andersen to push his demands or Andersen needs to go get his head checked out

 

[rumman]

Wonder if Burns would want to come home and eventually retire here.

Would pay a decent amount for Burns @ $4-5 mil. A good point shot is something we are seriously lacking. Especially on our power play

lives in Texas, no longer a Barrie boy........

 

[Carltons Cup]

The mindset that you have is not shared by most successful athletes. The reason they got to where they are is that they have a competitive drive that most of us do not.

Well it would be nice to see the $11m drive come playoff time.

 

[Eternal Leaf]