Trades & Free Agency Thread - Still Too Soon Off-Season Edition

[WestCoastLeafs]

So I put this roster together quickly.

Still a hair over 5M in cap space to use.

Kerfoot in expansion, Holl traded for futures, Engvall traded for futures.

Based on a discussion in another thread of how we need to continue to give young players chances in the lineup. I really like that third line, and think it can do a bit of everything. The fourth line is pretty standard. Liljegren replacing Holl beside Muzzin, which I think is a great fit.

So, where do you use the extra 5M? Well, two spots.

Does management think Robertson is ready? I think he can be with a good training off-season. If not, you can dedicate cap space to an FA like a Tatar, or a Granlund to fill that spot.

The more likely area I would suggest is Mikheyev. I actually don't mind the idea of Mikheyev getting a shot with Tavares and Nylander, to see what he can do in a more offensive spot. However, I don't think we are at the point where we can really afford to do that unfortunately.

So, does a Mikheyev, Dermott + Amirov/22 1st get you a Konecny? Rakell? etc

That is the area and type of package I'd be looking to make.

You utilize both internal promotion, AND free agency. I think that third line is a whole lot better than what we had, I think Robertson adds a spark to the top 6, and a guy like Konecny would as well.

If you're losing Kerfoot and Holl, I would do it the other way around. Trade Kerfoot and lose Holl to expansion. IMO Kerfoot would fetch a nicer return.

But if you're presumably protecting Dermott, then looking to trade him in a package, why not just trade him with Kerfoot as part of the package before the expansion draft. You can then protect Konecny or whoever you traded him for. (I personally wouldn't trade Dermott and would have him playing with Muzzin, but that's beside the point.)

I think Robertson should start at the bottom of the lineup. Robertson-Brooks-Spezza is a good depth scoring line. Move Nic up to play with the big boys here and there as a carrot.

 

[Looney Toonies]

Not bad suggestions throughout your post, but the more I look at that defense, the more I contrast it to the remaining teams in the playoffs.

The top 4 that the Leafs currently have is nowhere close to what the Bolts have or even the Habs. And in the playoffs last year, I think we saw how important Muzzin was to the team when he got injured. So while I think Liljegren & Sandin might get some action with the Leafs next year, I don't think it can happen at the same time. I know that the Habs are built different in terms of how they defend, but the Leafs need to focus on that top 4.

In terms of trade, I'd be looking at guys like Brayden McNabb, Connor Murphy, Justin Schultz, Mackenzie Weegar, Andrej Sekera, Marco Scandella, Josh Manson, Colin Miller. Not directly for the top 4, but for depth on defense.

Signing Jamie Oleksiak would certainly help in that regard. I'm higher on Liljegren than most, I'd be completely okay with running into next season with:

Rielly-Brodie
Oleksiak-Liljegren
Sandin-Holl

Shop Muzzin (I know flame away) for a younger power forward prospect, Dermott too if need be. For Liljegren there's nothing else to prove in the A. its time to crap or get off the pot with him IMO.

Sandin/Liljregren are insulated with some "veterans" and Holls down to where he belongs on the third pair.

 

[showtime8]

Signing Jamie Oleksiak would certainly help in that regard. I'm higher on Liljegren than most, I'd be completely okay with running into next season with:

Rielly-Brodie
Oleksiak-Liljegren
Sandin-Holl

Shop Muzzin (I know flame away) for a younger power forward prospect, Dermott too if need be. For Liljegren there's nothing else to prove in the A. its time to crap or get off the pot with him IMO.

Sandin/Liljregren are insulated with some "veterans" and Holls down to where he belongs on the third pair.

I think you run into a pile of trouble if you're giving Liljegren top 4 minutes right away. He has looked lost at times when he got called up. Expecting him to play 20 minutes a night is a lot to expect out of a rookie.

But my point was that you can't have both Liljegren and Sandin on the roster at the same point and expect some sort of success. I don't know the last time a team made it far in the playoffs with having 2 rookies playing a substantial amount on the back end.

 

[BlueForever75]

The defense needs to be revamped. I can honestly see Reilly dealt to bring more balance to the right side.

Bring in Hamilton make pairings as such:

Sandin-Brodie
Muzzin-Hamilton
Dermott-Holl

Pretty solid in my books.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think you run into a pile of trouble if you're giving Liljegren top 4 minutes right away. He has looked lost at times when he got called up. Expecting him to play 20 minutes a night is a lot to expect out of a rookie.

But my point was that you can't have both Liljegren and Sandin on the roster at the same point and expect some sort of success. I don't know the last time a team made it far in the playoffs with having 2 rookies playing a substantial amount on the back end.

I say keep the top 4 the same if possible (Muzzin, Brodie, Rielly, Holl) and then just have a LD version of Bogosian on the bottom pairing playing with Liljegren.

Bogosian moves on or is the 7th defenseman next year. Sandin is in the AHL where he belongs right now. Trade Dermott.

 

[Cor]

Not bad suggestions throughout your post, but the more I look at that defense, the more I contrast it to the remaining teams in the playoffs.

The top 4 that the Leafs currently have is nowhere close to what the Bolts have or even the Habs. And in the playoffs last year, I think we saw how important Muzzin was to the team when he got injured. So while I think Liljegren & Sandin might get some action with the Leafs next year, I don't think it can happen at the same time. I know that the Habs are built different in terms of how they defend, but the Leafs need to focus on that top 4.

In terms of trade, I'd be looking at guys like Brayden McNabb, Connor Murphy, Justin Schultz, Mackenzie Weegar, Andrej Sekera, Marco Scandella, Josh Manson, Colin Miller. Not directly for the top 4, but for depth on defense.

The Leafs defense was more than good enough.

Holl is extremely carried by Muzzin - which is fine, because it makes a really good pairing, but that pairing can be even better with someone like Liljegren who can contribute more than Holl generally does on the surface. There's this irrational fear of player young players in important spots, but plenty of successful teams do it. Would Liljegren make some errors? Yup, but that is part of development. -- people are here are way to harsh on minute to minute errors during games.

The Montreal defense literally bleeds chances left and right. They are in no way a model to follow, and that is why they finished 22nd in the NHL during the regular season. They've made it work during the playoffs because of Playoff Price's goaltending. We saw Playoff Price come back down in Games 1-3 of these finals, and we saw what happened. It's been a fun run for the Habs. Price has been insane to watch, however, they aren't an roster model to follow.

As for Tampa - their big guys, like Hedman, Cernak, McDonagh, Sergachev, each have the ability to move and transition the puck very well, in addition to their size. It would be difficult to replicate that. Tampa's ability to exit their zone is incredible, and that is something Liljegren does at a high level.

At the end of the day, our defense was far from an issue. It was a strength this year. I think Sandin in regularly for Dermott, beside Bogosian is a wash. I think Liljegren in for Holl, beside Muzzin is at worst a wash. And the top pairing remains the same. The defense will still perform at a high level, and I'd have zero concerns with Muzzin showing Liljegren the ropes, and Bogosian showing Sandin the ropes.

 

[Looney Toonies]

I think you run into a pile of trouble if you're giving Liljegren top 4 minutes right away. He has looked lost at times when he got called up. Expecting him to play 20 minutes a night is a lot to expect out of a rookie.

But my point was that you can't have both Liljegren and Sandin on the roster at the same point and expect some sort of success. I don't know the last time a team made it far in the playoffs with having 2 rookies playing a substantial amount on the back end.

For the most part I agree. last seasons defensive core was the best I've seen in a long time. but I highly doubt Bogosian comes back without a decent raise. Muzzins been injured in key playoff moments two seasons in a row. I think bringing in Oleksiak around 4M while shopping Muzzin might be the best idea. Oleksiak is 4 years younger, still brings the physical element (and then some) compared to Muzzin, and opens up around 1.6M in cap space. I think giving Liljegren some actual time in the top 4 does wonders for his game as well. Partnering him with a big heavy defensively responsible player in Oleksiak would shoulder some of the puck moving responsibility and allow him to showcase the reason the Leafs drafted him in 2017 (offensive potential).

 

[SeaOfBlue]

For the most part I agree. last seasons defensive core was the best I've seen in a long time. but I highly doubt Bogosian comes back without a decent raise. Muzzins been injured in key playoff moments two seasons in a row. I think bringing in Oleksiak around 4M while shopping Muzzin might be the best idea. Oleksiak is 4 years younger, still brings the physical element (and then some) compared to Muzzin, and opens up around 1.6M in cap space. I think giving Liljegren some actual time in the top 4 does wonders for his game as well. Partnering him with a big heavy defensively responsible player in Oleksiak would shoulder some of the puck moving responsibility and allow him to showcase the reason the Leafs drafted him in 2017 (offensive potential).

Oleksiak is also nowhere near as good as Muzzin though...

You start shopping Muzzin when Sandin proves he is a capable full time top 4 defenseman, which won't be until Muzzin's last year of his deal at the earliest I imagine.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The Leafs defense was more than good enough.

Holl is extremely carried by Muzzin - which is fine, because it makes a really good pairing, but that pairing can be even better with someone like Liljegren who can contribute more than Holl generally does on the surface. There's this irrational fear of player young players in important spots, but plenty of successful teams do it. Would Liljegren make some errors? Yup, but that is part of development. -- people are here are way to harsh on minute to minute errors during games.

The Montreal defense literally bleeds chances left and right. They are in no way a model to follow, and that is why they finished 22nd in the NHL during the regular season. They've made it work during the playoffs because of Playoff Price's goaltending. We saw Playoff Price come back down in Games 1-3 of these finals, and we saw what happened. It's been a fun run for the Habs. Price has been insane to watch, however, they aren't an roster model to follow.

As for Tampa - their big guys, like Hedman, Cernak, McDonagh, Sergachev, each have the ability to move and transition the puck very well, in addition to their size. It would be difficult to replicate that. Tampa's ability to exit their zone is incredible, and that is something Liljegren does at a high level.

At the end of the day, our defense was far from an issue. It was a strength this year. I think Sandin in regularly for Dermott, beside Bogosian is a wash. I think Liljegren in for Holl, beside Muzzin is at worst a wash. And the top pairing remains the same. The defense will still perform at a high level, and I'd have zero concerns with Muzzin showing Liljegren the ropes, and Bogosian showing Sandin the ropes.

The only concern I have with having both Sandin and Liljegren is that we should not bring them up together. Let Liljegren come up this year, because he is far more ready defensively and with his skating, and let Sandin come up next year or fill in for injuries before letting him come in next year on the bottom pairing. We'd also have to have one of them (or Rielly, who already plays a ton as it is) play PK and I would rather have 4 experienced guys be the primary 4 PKers. Let Liljegren be the 5th PKer for this year (i.e. when one of the primary 4 guys goes off, he is on the PK) and see how he adjusts before considering him as a primary 4 PKer.

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren/Holl
UFA - Liljegren/Holl
Bogosian

Rielly + Liljegren for PP; Brodie, Muzzin, Holl and the UFA as the primary 4 PKers with Liljegren as the 5th option.

I think that should be the defense. The UFA can be Hjalmarsson, Cole, Nemeth, or any other relatively cheap 1 year LD defensive and PK specialist similar to Bogosian. Nice and simple, and it will cost about the same as it did last year so we don't need to worry about it affecting our cap situation either.

 

[Nylander88]

Foegele would be great and a really cheap Hyman replacement but if he actually wants out of Carolina I would hope you can get him for less.

I'm also pretty worried Mikheyev just had his Grabner shooting% season and is likely going to have a hige equalizer in a contract year. I think we're better off keeping him and seeing if it happens.

Mikheyev has been like that for 2 seasons really. He had a decent little burst of production when he first started...but when you dive in, he had 8 goals his first season. Two empty netters, one where Howard dove out and missed the puck (giving him an empty net), one a wide open net tap in compliment of Kerfoot with a goalie on his stomach, and one where he didn't even notice that Tavares shot the puck off of him and it deflected in. Mikheyev is what he is. Fast, defensive specialist...and an absolute offensive black hole that plays soft. I'm more than willing to move on and spend that 1.65m elsewhere

 

[Nylander88]

Bogo likely coming in at around 1.2M, definitely not a pay cut.

If Dermott isn't playing regularly, he's traded.

You need 2 top 6 wingers, or at least 1 because cap.

Maybe re-sign Galchenyuk for 1x1 and Saad for 4.5M x4 years (slight bump from Toffoli's recent deal), they said they want killer instinct.

Maybe go for Mrazek in net at 2M for 1 year? Raanta is super injury prone.

I'd personally rather Bogosian than Holl. Similar ages, except Bogosian is a nastier costumer. He skates and moves the puck surprisingly well, which is Holl's main strength...and they both PK. I'd rather Bogosian though, but that's just personal opinion. Im pretty sure I read that Bogosian wasn't happy with usage, and wanted more ice time as a Leaf. Which is unfortunate. However I'd be cool with a Muzzin-Bogosian pairing as well, if we moved on from Holl

 

[jaric1862]

Really not liking the options to replace Kerfoot at 3c if he gets picked by Seattle.

 

[Amadeus]

Really not liking the options to replace Kerfoot at 3c if he gets picked by Seattle.

To be honest, I actually think Engvall has that potential. He needs to add some grit and work his defensive game which is doable but he's got talent.

 

[613Leafer]

To be honest, I actually think Engvall has that potential. He needs to add some grit and work his defensive game which is doable but he's got talent.

I know we're bargain bin shopping, but we can't go into the season with Engvall as our 3rd line C and expect to contend for a Cup. Maybe he gets there one day, but he needs to prove/earn it.

Tampa by comparison has one of Gourde anchoring the 3rd line. St. Louis when they won had Bozak. Washington when they won had Eller. Pittsburgh had Bonino. etc. Engvall hasn't shown that he's close to the level of even the worst out of those players.

 

[showtime8]

The Leafs defense was more than good enough.

Holl is extremely carried by Muzzin - which is fine, because it makes a really good pairing, but that pairing can be even better with someone like Liljegren who can contribute more than Holl generally does on the surface. There's this irrational fear of player young players in important spots, but plenty of successful teams do it. Would Liljegren make some errors? Yup, but that is part of development. -- people are here are way to harsh on minute to minute errors during games.

The Montreal defense literally bleeds chances left and right. They are in no way a model to follow, and that is why they finished 22nd in the NHL during the regular season. They've made it work during the playoffs because of Playoff Price's goaltending. We saw Playoff Price come back down in Games 1-3 of these finals, and we saw what happened. It's been a fun run for the Habs. Price has been insane to watch, however, they aren't an roster model to follow.

As for Tampa - their big guys, like Hedman, Cernak, McDonagh, Sergachev, each have the ability to move and transition the puck very well, in addition to their size. It would be difficult to replicate that. Tampa's ability to exit their zone is incredible, and that is something Liljegren does at a high level.

At the end of the day, our defense was far from an issue. It was a strength this year. I think Sandin in regularly for Dermott, beside Bogosian is a wash. I think Liljegren in for Holl, beside Muzzin is at worst a wash. And the top pairing remains the same. The defense will still perform at a high level, and I'd have zero concerns with Muzzin showing Liljegren the ropes, and Bogosian showing Sandin the ropes.

Can you think of an example where a final 4 playoff team has given a rookie that kind of chance and it pay off? Not to say it hasn't been done, but I can't think of one in recent memory.

The Tampa defense is probably the gold standard of what teams try to emulate. You're not going to find those kind of players without getting high draft picks or trading significant assets.

The Leafs defense was definitely not a huge issue this past year, but when it came time to play in the playoffs, I thought Sandin & Dermott had a couple costly turnovers that changed or lost the Leafs a game.

 

[showtime8]

To be honest, I actually think Engvall has that potential. He needs to add some grit and work his defensive game which is doable but he's got talent.

At this point in his career, I don't see how he's not going to change his playing style. They've asked him to play that physical-checking style, but that's not really his game. His game is skate with the puck, circle back and stick checking.

And teams often run into problems with they try to mold guys into a style that they aren't. Like this past season, they asked Joe Thornton to play 1st line left wing on a team that's big on transition, creating up-tempo style of play with trading chances at both ends. The problem was, Jumbo can't skate anymore and is more custom to the west coast get the puck down low and cycle through below the red line. I also brought up this before, but when the Leafs signed Matt Martin & traded for Kyle Clifford, they look way out of place. And it's not because they're terrible players, it's because the fit wasn't there and they were expecting something more. When I watched the Islanders vs Tampa series, I thought Martin looked really good. It's because he plays with 2 other guys that are very similar to his style. And I believe that's the same reason why Cizikas wouldn't be a good fit in Toronto. He would look out of place.

 

[Stephen]

I don't think we can just move on from Rielly and turn the PP1 QB keys over to Sandin and not expect some major problems over the course of 82 games. That's setting up a kid to jump from NHL tweener to prime time roster responsibilities with very little time logged and the way he was targeted and exposed in the playoffs will be a constant theme.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

So I put this roster together quickly.

Still a hair over 5M in cap space to use.

Kerfoot in expansion, Holl traded for futures, Engvall traded for futures.

Based on a discussion in another thread of how we need to continue to give young players chances in the lineup. I really like that third line, and think it can do a bit of everything. The fourth line is pretty standard. Liljegren replacing Holl beside Muzzin, which I think is a great fit.

So, where do you use the extra 5M? Well, two spots.

Does management think Robertson is ready? I think he can be with a good training off-season. If not, you can dedicate cap space to an FA like a Tatar, or a Granlund to fill that spot.

The more likely area I would suggest is Mikheyev. I actually don't mind the idea of Mikheyev getting a shot with Tavares and Nylander, to see what he can do in a more offensive spot. However, I don't think we are at the point where we can really afford to do that unfortunately.

So, does a Mikheyev, Dermott + Amirov/22 1st get you a Konecny? Rakell? etc

That is the area and type of package I'd be looking to make.

You utilize both internal promotion, AND free agency. I think that third line is a whole lot better than what we had, I think Robertson adds a spark to the top 6, and a guy like Konecny would as well.

I dont think Mikheyev can play in the top 6. He will absolutely kill the offense on whatever line he is on in the top 6. So I would definitely do some sort of trade like you mentioned.

I also think Lily on the 2nd pairing is a pretty tall order. I understand the need to get him some minutes plus wanting to put a vet with Sandin on the third pairing as well but ya that worries me a lot. Seems like a bit of trial by fire. Maybe the usage would be shifted so Rielly/Brodie carry an even bigger load?

Definitely like that 3rd line way better and I liked Brooks last year so think he can do a job on the 4th line. Not a huge fan of Simmonds signing in general but maybe he comes back better after a long offseason etc

I worry what happens to this roster the following year though with a decent amount of raises required and a likely flat cap

 

[Gallagbi]

I don't think we can just move on from Rielly and turn the PP1 QB keys over to Sandin and not expect some major problems over the course of 82 games. That's setting up a kid to jump from NHL tweener to prime time roster responsibilities with very little time logged and the way he was targeted and exposed in the playoffs will be a constant theme.

With our makeup the PP D spot won't be doing the heavy lifting. I'm much more concerned with the 5on5 drop-off Rielly would create than any PP impact. We should have some options with Muzzin, Lilj and even Brodie if Sandin struggles

 

[Knies iT]

Oleksiak is also nowhere near as good as Muzzin though...

You start shopping Muzzin when Sandin proves he is a capable full time top 4 defenseman, which won't be until Muzzin's last year of his deal at the earliest I imagine.

He's no slouch either, though:

Either Hakanpaa or Oleksiak would be excellent additions. Either to replace Holl (trade, ED, etc.) or to simply bolster the group.

There is no internal option that can stylistically replace Muzzin down the road. IMO, waiting until the last 1-2 years of his current contract to have a contingency plan is too late. I think we'll see a hard decline in his foot speed & physical play by the end of this coming season; the latter has already regressed.

Oleksiak has filled a similar role in DAL, albeit with way better partners than what Muzzin receives. A long-term D group consisting of Rielly, Sandin, Brodie, Liljegren, Dermott is far too small and soft. If those prospects hit their potential, you don't even need a replacement on Muzzin's caliber, just someone with a similar approach to diversify the blueline.

 

[Stephen]

With our makeup the PP D spot won't be doing the heavy lifting. I'm much more concerned with the 5on5 drop-off Rielly would create than any PP impact. We should have some options with Muzzin, Lilj and even Brodie if Sandin struggles

Sometimes I think the Leafs should do as other successful franchises do and funnel more resources into building an elite defense. An example would be our deadline acquisition of Nick Foligno. Conceptually sound at the time and I'm not going to ding Dubas on it for blowing up in his face, but the more low key rumours of Mattias Ekholm or David Savard would have paid off in more obvious ways give how much ice time they'd eat up. We always talk about how much of a unicorn Jake Muzzin is, but why not add more of those guys deliberately? You put a Savard into the system and all of a sudden you're not toying around with Sandin and Dermott when it matters.

 

[Gallagbi]

Sometimes I think the Leafs should do as other successful franchises do and funnel more resources into building an elite defense. An example would be our deadline acquisition of Nick Foligno. Conceptually sound at the time and I'm not going to ding Dubas on it for blowing up in his face, but the more low key rumours of Mattias Ekholm or David Savard would have paid off in more obvious ways give how much ice time they'd eat up. We always talk about how much of a unicorn Jake Muzzin is, but why not add more of those guys deliberately? You put a Savard into the system and all of a sudden you're not toying around with Sandin and Dermott when it matters.

Savard is a RD where we were already strong (so he doesn't push Sandin or Dermott our) and we picked up Hutton who was a good option IMO. He may have slid a guy like Bogo out of the lineup, but that doesn't change much for our fortunes. Ek came off the table with NSH turning things around and you could always say that a guy like Foligno was exactly the seasoned leader people wanted.

I really don't have much issue with the lineup construction, our players just didn't deliver to their abilities... except Jumbo. He's just bad now.

 

[Stephen]

Savard is a RD where we were already strong (so he doesn't push Sandin or Dermott our) and we picked up Hutton who was a good option IMO. He may have slid a guy like Bogo out of the lineup, but that doesn't change much for our fortunes. Ek came off the table with NSH turning things around and you could always say that a guy like Foligno was exactly the seasoned leader people wanted.

I really don't have much issue with the lineup construction, our players just didn't deliver to their abilities... except Jumbo. He's just bad now.

Savard would present a lot of good mix and match opportunities. Brodie on his weak side on his natural side, shifting to the left putting Rielly, Brodie and Muzzin on three separate pairings, Holl and Savard as mix and match pairs and Bogo on the third line.

 

[613Leafer]

Signing Jamie Oleksiak would certainly help in that regard. I'm higher on Liljegren than most, I'd be completely okay with running into next season with:

Rielly-Brodie
Oleksiak-Liljegren
Sandin-Holl

Shop Muzzin (I know flame away) for a younger power forward prospect, Dermott too if need be. For Liljegren there's nothing else to prove in the A. its time to crap or get off the pot with him IMO.

Sandin/Liljregren are insulated with some "veterans" and Holls down to where he belongs on the third pair.

Personally I think shopping Muzzin (or exposing him in expansion) and then signing a cheaper younger replacement like Oleksiak could be a good move. Muzzin has the biggest caphit on the blueline, and frankly given his style of play, age, injury history, etc, I'm worried his calibre of play could take a nosedive at any point.

It might not be next season, but if you can swap him for Oleksiak and reduce that risk while also saving $$ on the cap, it's a good move IMO. However, I wouldn't be comfortable penciling Liljegren into our top 4.

 

[Gallagbi]

Savard would present a lot of good mix and match opportunities. Brodie on his weak side on his natural side, shifting to the left putting Rielly, Brodie and Muzzin on three separate pairings, Holl and Savard as mix and match pairs and Bogo on the third line.

It adds options, but I think the top 4 is locked (and understandably so), so you're shuffling the bottom pair or mixing up some consistent pairing that have been steady all year.

I do think they explored a lefty in Ek and Oleksiak, which didn't work out. Settled on Hutton, who I prefer over Dermott then Sandin won them over down the stretch which was a little bizarre.