Trades & Free Agency Thread - Still Too Soon Off-Season Edition

[WTFMAN99]

Sure, doesn’t make him a great trade target though.

Definitely not, I wouldn't have wanted Arvidsson at all.

 

[tronoleaf]

I'm hardly a Dubas fan, but Arvidsson scored 1 more point than Foligno.

You know in a relationship how people will say it's the little things? And it's the thought that counts? And collectively they add up. Arvidsson would have been a nice buy low asset who's still young and on a cheap contract whereas Foligno was a.. yeah. It's why some people are irritated that Wayne Simmonds get 900k instead of the minimum yes it's not a big deal but there's no reason to overpay him by even a small amount and every contract he gives out is bad these little things add up and it gets very old. Not to mention the fact that Simmons sucks. I digress... Bottom line is I'm just pointing out one of Dubas' many flaws what else is new.

 

[rumman]

You know in a relationship how people will say it's the little things? And it's the thought that counts? And collectively they add up. Arvidsson would have been a nice buy low asset who's still young and on a cheap contract whereas Foligno was a.. yeah. It's why some people are irritated that Wayne Simmonds get 900k instead of the minimum yes it's not a big deal but there's no reason to overpay him by even a small amount and every contract he gives out is bad these little things add up and it gets very old. Not to mention the fact that Simmons sucks. I digress... Bottom line is I'm just pointing out one of Dubas' many flaws what else is new.

your right, all the little things do add up to be significant.

 

[Stephen]

You know in a relationship how people will say it's the little things? And it's the thought that counts? And collectively they add up. Arvidsson would have been a nice buy low asset who's still young and on a cheap contract whereas Foligno was a.. yeah. It's why some people are irritated that Wayne Simmonds get 900k instead of the minimum yes it's not a big deal but there's no reason to overpay him by even a small amount and every contract he gives out is bad these little things add up and it gets very old. Not to mention the fact that Simmons sucks. I digress... Bottom line is I'm just pointing out one of Dubas' many flaws what else is new.

Oh I completely sympathize and we probably share the exact same frustrations with Dubas.

All I'm saying is Arvidsson would have been a different kind of bad trade compared to Foligno so don't sweat this one.

 

[4thline]

"young and on a cheap contract"

28 years old, 4.25m cap hit, 170th in scoring over the last two years, was not available at the trade deadline

"it's the little things"

 

[Mickey Marner]

I'm just thinking in terms of maximizing the effectiveness of our LW spend. How far is AG off of Hoffman in terms of offensive impact? IMO not much. Also not any worse defensively. A rough year plus his defensive warts has him perceived as a "bargain bin" level player, but the guy is a top 6 talent. Bringing him back for two years anywhere under 2m per would be a hugely underrated move, and leaves decent money to go after a couple guys with more two way ability

I agree that it should be a bargain bin rather than a name brand hire, but there are probably dozens of available players that could be a ~40 point player for us at 2LW. I'd rather thrift shop for the next Galchenyuk, Verhaeghe, Duclair etc. than give this one a raise or term.

 

[Torontonian]

14.5m to fill 2 Top LW / 3c (might not have to if they feel like Engvall can take over the 3c spot if we lose Kerfoot in expansion) backup goalie and 6th dman.

They do have money to spend if that's the route they are going... I feel like the Leafs need to make a dominate top 6 that can't be shutdown so easily. If teams are gonna shutdown our top line, our second line needs to be able to dominate them. I don't think Chucky is the answer on the second line.

I don't want to just plug Robertson to the 3rd line if he's not ready for the NHL. They need to start plugging in our ELC contract players into the lineup to be able to save money.

 

[Gallagbi]

yeah, but the price was lower and there's a lot more of a chance that Arvidsson bounces back with the Leafs than there was of Foligno contributing much. Arvidsson may have been the wrong fit because of his contract, but Dubas probably should start trying to find undervalued players rather than pay a much higher price for comparable/worse players

Guys like Galchenyuk and Bogosian perhaps?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Guys like Galchenyuk and Bogosian perhaps?

I was thinking guys like Verhaeghe and Weegar. Galchenyuk was a good pickup, but it was pretty annoying that he changed their deadline strategy to go after Foligno, and he ended up being a healthy scratch in game 1

 

[Shak19]

Galchenyuk is work league min, if he wants more he can go battle for a 4th line spot or have fun in the AHL someplace else.

 

[Gallagbi]

I was thinking guys like Verhaeghe and Weegar. Galchenyuk was a good pickup, but it was pretty annoying that he changed their deadline strategy to go after Foligno, and he ended up being a healthy scratch in game 1

Felt like they were always going to be after a guy like Foligno who brought Leadership and could play anywhere in the lineup.

I thought Weegar was a pick, but you could always throw Holl as a top 4 D we picked up from nowhere. Campbell could be another you throw in there given how he's played vs. Expectations

 

[Gabriel426]

How can you consider Avardson be a cheap option? He makes 4.25mil/yr.

 

[Knies iT]

I don't want to just plug Robertson to the 3rd line if he's not ready for the NHL. They need to start plugging in our ELC contract players into the lineup to be able to save money.

What they need to do is stop yo-yo'ing Robertson and Liljegren. Robertson's game will translate better to the NHL than it does in the AHL, especially considering how horrible the Marlies are under Moore. I watched a majority of Nick's games and he spends 80% of the game chasing the puck off of broken plays because that team is an offensive blackhole that can't complete a pass. The fact he put up 16pts in 21GP as a 19 year old on that team is shocking. Don't want him in that environment again.

Brayden Point had 4pts in 9GP (AHL) when he was ~6 months younger than Robertson was. Kucherov had 24pts in 17GP, but in his D+3, while Robertson was in his D+2. Not saying NR is anywhere close to that caliber of prospect (even though he had better a better CHL season than both), but many other teams (e.g. BOS w/ Pasta) are comfortable with insulating these young guys on their NHL roster and letting them learn on the job.

You will burn a year off of his contract next season regardless. He's been through two bubble camps. It's time for a full-time job.

 

[Torontonian]

How can you consider Avardson be a cheap option? He makes 4.25mil/yr.

To play in your top 6 it's not a bad cost, Hyman realistically should cost that much as well. The risk with Ardvisson is he's been on the decline the past two years after putting up three 30 goal seasons, but Nashville hasn't been very good those past two years.

Toronto needs better then Chucky in our top 6. I don't think adding players that are "buy low" candidates and hoping they can get better playing with our big boys is the way to go, they need to add legitimate good players for the top six and then try to add those buy low candidates to the bottom six.

 

[Menzinger]

I'd say the Arvidsson is a decent trade for the Kings. They were a non playoff team and can eat the potential risk if he doesn't rebound.

That said I don't know why folks are acting like he was available at the tdl though when the Preds clearly didn't sell anyone because they wanted to be competitive in their first round series - they didn't move any of their rumored guys.

 

[Torontonian]

What they need to do is stop yo-yo'ing Robertson and Liljegren. Robertson's game will translate better to the NHL than it does in the AHL, especially considering how horrible the Marlies are under Moore. I watched a majority of Nick's games and he spends 80% of the game chasing the puck off of broken plays because that team is an offensive blackhole that can't complete a pass. The fact he put up 16pts in 21GP as a 19 year old on that team is shocking. Don't want him in that environment again.

Brayden Point had 4pts in 9GP (AHL) when he was ~6 months younger than Robertson was. Kucherov had 24pts in 17GP, but in his D+3, while Robertson was in his D+2. Not saying NR is anywhere close to that caliber of prospect (even though he had better a better CHL season than both), but many other teams (e.g. BOS w/ Pasta) are comfortable with insulating these young guys on their NHL roster and letting them learn on the job.

You will burn a year off of his contract next season regardless. He's been through two bubble camps. It's time for a full-time job.

That's a very good point, Toronto should be good enough to be able to let Robertson learn on the job. He has a NHL level shot, its the strength and learning how to play in the NHL is what needs to come next. I'm not sure if its NHL or bust for him, like can they send him to the AHL next season? or is it OHL / NHL only?

The thing with Timothy is they need to have him as the 7th Dman this year or playing as our 5-6 pairing with Sandin. Im not sure if the Leafs would be comfortable having Sandin and Lilly as our 3rd d-pair next season.

 

[LaPlante94]

Marner for Forsberg next?

 

[Knies iT]

That's a very good point, Toronto should be good enough to be able to let Robertson learn on the job. He has a NHL level shot, its the strength and learning how to play in the NHL is what needs to come next. I'm not sure if its NHL or bust for him, like can they send him to the AHL next season? or is it OHL / NHL only?

The thing with Timothy is they need to have him as the 7th Dman this year or playing as our 5-6 pairing with Sandin. Im not sure if the Leafs would be comfortable having Sandin and Lilly as our 3rd d-pair next season.

They can definitely send him to the AHL next year as it will be his 20 year old season. OHL isn't an option anymore. This year was a unique situation that made him AHL eligible due to COVID shutting down the OHL season.

Like you said, the areas Robertson needs to improve (strength, balance, lower body explosiveness) are off-season focuses. If management deemed him good enough to play in the play-ins vs. CBJ at 18 years old, he should absolutely be capable of taking a regular season spot at age 20 in his D+3 after multiple camps and tryouts.

Hallander will also be a sleeper contending for an NHL spot on his ELC.

 

[Gabriel426]

To play in your top 6 it's not a bad cost, Hyman realistically should cost that much as well. The risk with Ardvisson is he's been on the decline the past two years after putting up three 30 goal seasons, but Nashville hasn't been very good those past two years.

Toronto needs better then Chucky in our top 6. I don't think adding players that are "buy low" candidates and hoping they can get better playing with our big boys is the way to go, they need to add legitimate good players for the top six and then try to add those buy low candidates to the bottom six.

Yes and no. I think given our 10mil plus boys club. A reclamation project at 4.25mil is a bit too high.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

To play in your top 6 it's not a bad cost, Hyman realistically should cost that much as well. The risk with Ardvisson is he's been on the decline the past two years after putting up three 30 goal seasons, but Nashville hasn't been very good those past two years.

Toronto needs better then Chucky in our top 6. I don't think adding players that are "buy low" candidates and hoping they can get better playing with our big boys is the way to go, they need to add legitimate good players for the top six and then try to add those buy low candidates to the bottom six.

I have no issue putting guys like Galchenyuk in the top 6. You have 4 high end guys. You just need two guys who work hard and know where they need to be. You don't need to pay a lot to get those kinds of guys.

Galchenyuk was fine for us last year. If we brought him back for our PP and top 6, we are not doing too bad... However, he would have to come cheap of course because it is not like there are not a dozen other guys out there that can do the job as well.

 

[Menzinger]

I have no issue putting guys like Galchenyuk in the top 6. You have 4 high end guys. You just need two guys who work hard and know where they need to be. You don't need to pay a lot to get those kinds of guys.

Galchenyuk was fine for us last year. If we brought him back for our PP and top 6, we are not doing too bad... However, he would have to come cheap of course because it is not like there are not a dozen other guys out there that can do the job as well.

Yep. Matthews-Marner and Nylander-JT are good enough especially offensively to be able to have a lesser player in the wing who can compliment their skillets. Gally in particular looked very good (playoff OT brainfart aside) in a sheltered offensive role on the 2nd line.

I'd rather the Leafs spend their extra cash this offseason on the 3rd line.

 

[Trapper]

Marner for Forsberg next?

You could flank Matthews with a Forsberg and Silfverberg for the 11 million.

 

[Torontonian]

I have no issue putting guys like Galchenyuk in the top 6. You have 4 high end guys. You just need two guys who work hard and know where they need to be. You don't need to pay a lot to get those kinds of guys.

Galchenyuk was fine for us last year. If we brought him back for our PP and top 6, we are not doing too bad... However, he would have to come cheap of course because it is not like there are not a dozen other guys out there that can do the job as well.

Is the third line the difference from winning the series both against CBJ and MTL? I don't look at both those series and say if our depth scored a bit more we win. Having them chip in a couple goals each series is nice, but I think we need to find ways to make our top two lines more threating and harder to match up against.

For example, Tampa Bay 3rd line is:
Gorude - 20gp, 6G 1A - 7 points
Goodrow - 16gp, 1G 3A - 4 points
Coleman - 20gp, 2G - 7A - 9 points
Johnson - 20GP, 2G - 2A - 4 points

Tampas top two lines are dominating out there because both lines are too hard to shut down. Kilorn has 17 points, Kuch has 30, Point has 23, Stamkos has 18, Palat has 11 and Cirelli has 11.

I hope Robertson becomes a key piece to the 3rd line next season that makes them a threat to scoring goals, but I think on the top two lines they need more then just someone trying to "prove themselves" that they are an NHL player like Chucky etc.

 

[rumman]

Is the third line the difference from winning the series both against CBJ and MTL? I don't look at both those series and say if our depth scored a bit more we win. Having them chip in a couple goals each series is nice, but I think we need to find ways to make our top two lines more threating and harder to match up against.

For example, Tampa Bay 3rd line is:
Gorude - 20gp, 6G 1A - 7 points
Goodrow - 16gp, 1G 3A - 4 points
Coleman - 20gp, 2G - 7A - 9 points
Johnson - 20GP, 2G - 2A - 4 points

Tampas top two lines are dominating out there because both lines are too hard to shut down. Kilorn has 17 points, Kuch has 30, Point has 23, Stamkos has 18, Palat has 11 and Cirelli has 11.

I hope Robertson becomes a key piece to the 3rd line next season that makes them a threat to scoring goals, but I think on the top two lines they need more then just someone trying to "prove themselves" that they are an NHL player like Chucky etc.

Yeah, I’d say the 3rd line is the difference especially when lines 1 and 2 lay another egg.

 

[rumman]

You could flank Matthews with a Forsberg and Silfverberg for the 11 million.

Man if you moved 2 of the 4, and dumped Kerfoot/Soup/Engvale the return and cap saving could really change this team for the better. Too bad management is stuck playing reruns of Groundhog Day……..