Trades & Free Agency Thread - Still Too Soon Off-Season Edition

[hamzarocks]

I would

Leafs aren't going to make anything close to a major trade like that.

People are crazy if they're expecting a top pairing LHD and star 1st line winger coming in this offseason.

We are running near the same team with some depth changes back next year.

The backup goalie will change, bottom-pairing RHD and extra depth d-men and forwards will change, 4th line vet (Joe) probably changes, and maybe Robertson wins a full-time spot from Engvall/Mikheyev but the top 4 on defense, Campbell and big four forwards will be the same, with Simmonds, Spezza, 1 of Engvall/Mikheyev (most likely both) being regulars in the bottom 6

 

[Torontonian]

Leafs aren't going to make anything close to a major trade like that.

People are crazy if they're expecting a top pairing LHD and star 1st line winger coming in this offseason.

We are running near the same team with some depth changes back next year.

The backup goalie will change, bottom-pairing RHD and extra depth d-men and forwards will change, 4th line vet (Joe) probably changes, and maybe Robertson wins a full-time spot from Engvall/Mikheyev but the top 4 on defense, Campbell and big four forwards will be the same, with Simmonds, Spezza, 1 of Engvall/Mikheyev (most likely both) being regulars in the bottom 6

I could see a move for a legitimate top six winger after expansion, whether thats signing Hall/Saad/Schwartz/Landeskog(very unlikely to get him, but I think he would be a solid add) to play top 6 or making a trade and them adding a 4th line C if they don't think Brooks is good enough for that spot, and yes Robertson perhaps being on the 3rd line along with Engvall as 3c and Soup as 3RW. I don't see them touching there D as it was one of the few bright spots last season, only resigning Dermott for cheap and adding another depth D like Bogo again.

 

[Avilaj07]

Leafs aren't going to make anything close to a major trade like that.

People are crazy if they're expecting a top pairing LHD and star 1st line winger coming in this offseason.

We are running near the same team with some depth changes back next year.

The backup goalie will change, bottom-pairing RHD and extra depth d-men and forwards will change, 4th line vet (Joe) probably changes, and maybe Robertson wins a full-time spot from Engvall/Mikheyev but the top 4 on defense, Campbell and big four forwards will be the same, with Simmonds, Spezza, 1 of Engvall/Mikheyev (most likely both) being regulars in the bottom 6

From Lebrun,

If Leafs and Rielly don't have a contract by end of July, expect Rielly to be moved.

Everyone knows the Leafs are interested in Ekholm at the trade deadline and with both Rielly and Ekholm being in the last year of their deals, I think it's a trade that both teams might entertain. Gives the Nashville defense some more speed and skill and gives the Leafs a younger more skilled version of Muzzin.

To Toronto-
Filip Forsberg
Mattias Ekholm

To Nashville-
Morgan Rielly
Rodion Amirov
Ilya Mikheyev
2nd Round Pick

 

[Jozay]

From Lebrun,

If Leafs and Rielly don't have a contract by end of July, expect Rielly to be moved.

Everyone knows the Leafs are interested in Ekholm at the trade deadline and with both Rielly and Ekholm being in the last year of their deals, I think it's a trade that both teams might entertain. Gives the Nashville defense some more speed and skill and gives the Leafs a younger more skilled version of Muzzin.

To Toronto-
Filip Forsberg
Mattias Ekholm

To Nashville-
Morgan Rielly
Rodion Amirov
Ilya Mikheyev
2nd Round Pick

This makes absolutely no sense for the predators.

 

[nuck]

Leafs aren't going to make anything close to a major trade like that.

People are crazy if they're expecting a top pairing LHD and star 1st line winger coming in this offseason.

We are running near the same team with some depth changes back next year.

The backup goalie will change, bottom-pairing RHD and extra depth d-men and forwards will change, 4th line vet (Joe) probably changes, and maybe Robertson wins a full-time spot from Engvall/Mikheyev but the top 4 on defense, Campbell and big four forwards will be the same, with Simmonds, Spezza, 1 of Engvall/Mikheyev (most likely both) being regulars in the bottom 6

I could see a #3c being brought in and Kerfoot and Hyman out. I don't think Dubas is as married to Rielly as to his own guys but it would be uncharacteristic for him to mess with something he knows for an unknown unless there was potential for improving the cap at the same time. Hyman is more of a gun to his head with the likely contract expectations forcing his hand. I don't expect him to take the long view this season so anyone not in last years playoff lineup might be on the table.

 

[Erndog]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a package of Forsberg + Ekholm coming to the Leafs this off season.

Do you understand that trading for a teams best player AND one of their best defenseman in the SAME PACKAGE is about as rare a trade as you're going to find in the NHL?

 

[ottomaddox]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a package of Forsberg + Ekholm coming to the Leafs this off season.

Would be surprised?

 

[Smif]

Is the third line the difference from winning the series both against CBJ and MTL? I don't look at both those series and say if our depth scored a bit more we win. Having them chip in a couple goals each series is nice, but I think we need to find ways to make our top two lines more threating and harder to match up against.

For example, Tampa Bay 3rd line is:
Gorude - 20gp, 6G 1A - 7 points
Goodrow - 16gp, 1G 3A - 4 points
Coleman - 20gp, 2G - 7A - 9 points
Johnson - 20GP, 2G - 2A - 4 points

Tampas top two lines are dominating out there because both lines are too hard to shut down. Kilorn has 17 points, Kuch has 30, Point has 23, Stamkos has 18, Palat has 11 and Cirelli has 11.

I hope Robertson becomes a key piece to the 3rd line next season that makes them a threat to scoring goals, but I think on the top two lines they need more then just someone trying to "prove themselves" that they are an NHL player like Chucky etc.

I want a third line that deflates other teams top two lines, a workhorse, energy line that dominates their D physically and makes room for our top two lines, they also almost always start their shift in our own zone and end up in the O-zone. Tampa's 3rd line is not to be discounted because of their point totals. Guys like Kerfoot, Engvall, and Mikheyev are not guys I want for our third line preferably.

 

[Smif]

Robertson's still very young, so I hesitate to be seriously critical of his game at this time...

That said, I think the organization did him no favors tinkering around with him at the bubble play-in's and hyping him as a serious roster option. Don't think he needed that kind of exposure in the press or really to be accelerated at that young age. I think it's completely fine for him to be farther back in development but the organization shouldn't be dangling him around like an imminent promotion.

His game is very raw and needs a lot of development. He's an extremely hard worker but that energy needs to be channeled better. His skating is very slow and his wide stance gives him power at the expense of mobility. I find his hockey sense to be a bit of a question mark because like you said he seems to be chasing the puck off of broken plays but also just hounding a little too hard without reading/anticipating the play in an efficient and intelligent manner (compare and contrast Caufield for example). His shot is ridiculously good, but in the limited NHL viewings he didn't know how to get in the clear either.

I don't want to give him an NHL job at all right now. He's not NHL ready at 19 with 21 games of AHL development and he's not yet an appropriate comparison for Point and Kucherov.

Robertson not playing in the WJC's still baffles me. Completely irresponsible for his development. That tournament could've done wonders for him.

 

[Jozay]

Friedman thinks Nashville will try to re-sign Granlund "as soon as they can"

 

[Menzinger]

Really interesting gamble by the Wild on the Erickson Ek 8 years contract.

Looks like an overpay at the moment but could be a very good value contract in the long run for a 2C. He's fantastic defensively already

 

[hockeynorth]

Really interesting gamble by the Wild on the Erickson Ek 8 years contract.

Looks like an overpay at the moment but could be a very good value contract in the long run for a 2C. He's fantastic defensively already

Eriksson Ek is such a good player

 

[Torontonian]

I want a third line that deflates other teams top two lines, a workhorse, energy line that dominates their D physically and makes room for our top two lines, they also almost always start their shift in our own zone and end up in the O-zone. Tampa's 3rd line is not to be discounted because of their point totals. Guys like Kerfoot, Engvall, and Mikheyev are not guys I want for our third line preferably.

Until our top two lines can take over a series, I don't see them moving ahead in the playoffs. I wouldn't say Tampa 3rd line is the reason why the top two lines are dominating every round but I agree they do play well. I also think it would be easier to acquire 3rd line players at the TDL then it would be filling a top six forward like how we did this year with Foligno.

We need to fix our top two lines so they have an impact on a series before we worry about our 3rd line, as I said before I don't think our 3rd line is the difference in winning both series against MTL and CBJ, its a lot easier to accquire 3rd liners at the TDL then it is to add good talent. If the big boys aren't going its going to be awfully hard to win.

Adding a legitimate top six winger or two (adding a second one might be hard to do without the cap) to play on the Marner/Matthews JT/Nylander just makes it that much harder to shut them down.

Imagine having Rakell / Forsberg / Saad / Hall riding shot gun on the top line compared to having Hyman (Not a top 6 forward to me, hes your ideal 3rd line winger) or Chucky or Jumbo Joe or a broken Foligno on the top two lines, going into the off season with 14.5m after losing Kerfoot to expansion, they might have the cap to bolster there top six.

The wildcard is the 3rd line LW, they need to have Robertson or a cheap ELC be able to fill that gap and if Robertson can play in the NHL, maybe can inject some goal scoring onto that 3rd line.

 

[Soundgarden]

From Lebrun,

If Leafs and Rielly don't have a contract by end of July, expect Rielly to be moved.

Everyone knows the Leafs are interested in Ekholm at the trade deadline and with both Rielly and Ekholm being in the last year of their deals, I think it's a trade that both teams might entertain. Gives the Nashville defense some more speed and skill and gives the Leafs a younger more skilled version of Muzzin.

To Toronto-
Filip Forsberg
Mattias Ekholm

To Nashville-
Morgan Rielly
Rodion Amirov
Ilya Mikheyev
2nd Round Pick

Nashville fan here, ignoring the ridiculousness of the proposal and focusing on the Ekholm and Rielly aspect, we already have Josi, Fabbro, Carrier, Farrance and Ellis playing a similar puck moving game to Rielly on our roster right now and we have Chistyakov in the wings too.

The only comparable we have to to replace Ekholm is Luke Prokop and he's several years away. Rielly would be of zero interest to us.

 

[realgoodleafs]

From Lebrun,

If Leafs and Rielly don't have a contract by end of July, expect Rielly to be moved.

Everyone knows the Leafs are interested in Ekholm at the trade deadline and with both Rielly and Ekholm being in the last year of their deals, I think it's a trade that both teams might entertain. Gives the Nashville defense some more speed and skill and gives the Leafs a younger more skilled version of Muzzin.

To Toronto-
Filip Forsberg
Mattias Ekholm

To Nashville-
Morgan Rielly
Rodion Amirov
Ilya Mikheyev
2nd Round Pick

Dubas tends to let players walk and trade picks. Not sure why Lebrun thinks anything different will happen.

 

[Stephen]

Robertson not playing in the WJC's still baffles me. Completely irresponsible for his development. That tournament could've done wonders for him.

Agreed. Such a “galaxy brain” decision. Instead of giving Robertson real game time on a big stage for his age, let’s just plot out a completely unconventional development path.

With so many directors of X in the organization you wonder how big the Zoom meetings are to make basic decisions.

 

[Dreakmur]

Agreed. Such a “galaxy brain” decision. Instead of giving Robertson real game time on a big stage for his age, let’s just plot out a completely unconventional development path.

With so many directors of X in the organization you wonder how big the Zoom meetings are to make basic decisions.

Even when they make a great pick, they butcher his development. That’s good management right there.

 

[Stephen]

Even when they make a great pick, they butcher his development. That’s good management right there.

I like Nicholas Robertson and hope he turns into a player for us. He seems like a likeable kid, had a fantastic OHL season in 2020 and you have to admire his dogged work ethic. His brother is also an awesome rookie for Dallas. So a lot things to like... but as good as Robertson has been as a prospect, I feel like the Leafs have spent some energy hyping this kid up beyond reasonable expectations and timelines by yo-yo'ing him onto the main roster in order to sell the concept that he's more than your typical second round pick. Same thing with Sandin.

 

[Brown Dog]

Nashville fan here, ignoring the ridiculousness of the proposal and focusing on the Ekholm and Rielly aspect, we already have Josi, Fabbro, Carrier, Farrance and Ellis playing a similar puck moving game to Rielly on our roster right now and we have Chistyakov in the wings too.

The only comparable we have to to replace Ekholm is Luke Prokop and he's several years away. Rielly would be of zero interest to us.

 

[Brobust]

Agreed. Such a “galaxy brain” decision. Instead of giving Robertson real game time on a big stage for his age, let’s just plot out a completely unconventional development path.

With so many directors of X in the organization you wonder how big the Zoom meetings are to make basic decisions.

Did you forget that he suffered an injury in his first game or are you ignoring that fact so that you can keep whining?

 

[Stephen]

Did you forget that he suffered an injury in his first game or are you ignoring that fact so that you can keep whining?

World Juniors were held before the season started…

 

[meefer]

Not even JFJ would make those trades.

Of course he wouldn't, he was a bad GM

But, for the sake of discussion:

*The Leafs want to clear cap space, well, those two trades drop about 19.75M off their obligations next season.
*The only name player we'd be giving up is Marner. Jones is his replacement, and with the savings we develop, both he and Rielly can be signed next season at a combined rate of 14M give or take a quarter mill. Divi it up as you wish, I think they are very comparable players and would roughly earn the same amount. YMMV. Moving forward with a D group led by Muzz, Brodie, Rielly and Jones is very appealing to me. As Muzz and Brodie age out/traded, Rielly and Jones are still below 30 with Sandin developing and hopefully the Marlies can provide 1/2 more in the next 2/3 years.
*I'd rather lose one of Fischer/Dermott/Hutch to Seattle for nothing than the current choice of Kerfoot/Dermott/Hutch, believing Kerfoot would be their choice.
*Gaining three draft picks, including a first round pick should help bolster our prospect cupboard, and this will be important if we wish to re-sign Matthews and Nylander.
*We haven't touched moved 9 out of our 10 top prospects (according to Wheeler's rankings in the Athletic). This is important if we hope to see some form of infusion onto the Leafs in the coming years to replace too expensive/aging players.
*Crouse, while not a sexy player, brings a strong degree of the physical (8th in hits for forwards the last two years, 5th the last 3 years), has averaged 21 points over the last 3 years (with a high of 15 goals two seasons ago) while playing 3rd line minutes and could well benefit from playing with a C like Tavares (a better C than he has ever played with) who has a history of improving the play of his wingers, he has also PKed. I do not expect him to be a 1st line PF, but I can see him improving and becoming a decent 2nd line player, contributing 15-20 G with Tavares and effectively wearing down D in the corners.

Essentially, the trades boil down to:

Marner, Kerfoot, Holl, Mikheyev, Liljegren, Hallander (19.672M combined)
for
Jones, Crouse, Fischer (7.933M combined) a 1st, 4th, 5th + 11.739M in cap space.

Currently, CapFriendly has the Leafs for next season with a 16 player roster signed and 10.855M projected cap space.
My suggestions would see the Leafs having a roster of 14 players signed and 22.594M projected cap space.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

People really need to jump off of the Fischer/Crouse hype train. Both are reclamation projects at this point. If we wanted a Fischer, we might as well give Anderson a try, or look at a number of bargain bin UFAs that can bring what he does.

Crouse is awful but does hit and has name value. If we wanted a physical 4th liner who does not get a guaranteed job, then he is fine. However he is not worth more than Engvall straight up.

They could be out of the NHL altogether in a couple of years. We should not be giving up major value for either guy right now. They have a bit of upside left but at best we are looking at decent mid tier prospects and picks or Engvall straight up for them.

 

[meefer]

People really need to jump off of the Fischer/Crouse hype train. Both are reclamation projects at this point. If we wanted a Fischer, we might as well give Anderson a try, or look at a number of bargain bin UFAs that can bring what he does.

Crouse is awful but does hit and has name value. If we wanted a physical 4th liner who does not get a guaranteed job, then he is fine. However he is not worth more than Engvall straight up.

They could be out of the NHL altogether in a couple of years. We should not be giving up major value for either guy right now. They have a bit of upside left but at best we are looking at decent mid tier prospects and picks or Engvall straight up for them.

Disagree about Crouse, he's scored 15 goals once and 25 points twice, with a who's who of Centers attempting to break the 50 point barrier in a season, agreed last year was a down year, but I'd be willing to take a calculated risk that his talent didn't disappear, but had more to do with him starting 9.6% of his shifts in the Ozone (according to Moneypuck). As to Fischer, in my initial post I had him being moved for a pick with the intent, as I stated, of bringing up Anderson. I'd still move him for a pick and bring up Anderson.

 

[deprw]

Agreed. Such a “galaxy brain” decision. Instead of giving Robertson real game time on a big stage for his age, let’s just plot out a completely unconventional development path.

With so many directors of X in the organization you wonder how big the Zoom meetings are to make basic decisions.

I fear that sliding his ELC one year further was factor that played part in this. Also covid played it's part, but I sure hope that doesn't affect his performance in the future. Though if Robertson is real deal one suboptimal season doesn't harm him.