GDT: Trades & Free Agency Thread - post expansion list

[SprDaVE]

View attachment 454523

2M defenseman that can't defend or create offense without Jake Muzzin? You can sign pylons for 750k every year.

It really isn't that bad? Sure he's better than Muzzin but most players are because he's really good.

Holl is a 2M defenseman that plays a lot of tough minutes and does respectively well for his price tag. You wouldn't find someone of his ilk for 750k very easily.

A lot of teams are giving those kind of players 3-4M regularly. Chariot, Larsson, etc etc

 

[WTFMAN99]

It really isn't that bad? Sure he's better than Muzzin but most players are because he's really good.

Holl is a 2M defenseman that plays a lot of tough minutes and does respectively well for his price tag. You wouldn't find someone of his ilk for 750k very easily.

A lot of teams are giving those kind of players 3-4M regularly. Chariot, Larsson, etc etc

Not a lot of them get to play with Muzzin and can at least look the role reasonably well if Muzzin misses time.

 

[SprDaVE]

Look at the caliber of defensemen available to Seattle and who they have signed/leaked to have been selected…

Does anyone really think they would have took Holl even if he was exposed to them? Who does he really overtake on their projected top 6? Leafs must have known Hakstol had a huge crush on him or something not to go 7-3-1 and keep the versatile asset we just picked up that filled one of our team’s needs to a tee

It's possible they would have changed a player or two if someone like Holl was available to them. Maybe they don't pick Soucy over Kahkonen, for example. Who knows. There's no way to know. Seems like the Leafs knew they would take Holl or else... why go this route, right?

They wanted to keep their top 4 intact, which has been the best defense the Leafs have had in a very very long time. I don't see the problem.

 

[SprDaVE]

Not a lot of them get to play with Muzzin and can at least look the role reasonably well if Muzzin misses time.

Even without Muzzin he still did well. So I don't understand the complaint. He's serviceable without Muzzin and great with Muzzin, and better than the majority of defenseman you can probably sign in free agency for under 2M. They certainly are not good on the PK and 6'5" either.

 

[bentharbs]

Leafs finally had decent D last year and folks around here complaining that we are running it back.

 

[TML Dynasty]

We traded for McCann right before draft and now Seattle takes him. I really hope there was discussion around this and its a precursor for another move. "OK fine if you guys get McCann from the penguins we'll do....."

Im worried about the lack of changes so far but lots of time left......

 

[WTFMAN99]

Even without Muzzin he still did well. So I don't understand the complaint. He's serviceable without Muzzin and great with Muzzin, and better than the majority of defenseman you can probably sign in free agency for under 2M. They certainly are not good on the PK and 6'5" either.

Again, I think the only reason the 2M is even highlighted is because Dubas f***ed up the cap so badly that it's needed. Find a defenseman for 3-5M to play in the top 4. Try Liljegren, try Dermott. They both had great stats with Muzzin, arguably better but smaller sample size.

6'5 is meh, he's not running guys out of the rink like Zadorov or anything.

 

[showtime8]

Look at the caliber of defensemen available to Seattle and who they have signed/leaked to have been selected…

Does anyone really think they would have took Holl even if he was exposed to them? Who does he really overtake on their projected top 6? Leafs must have known Hakstol had a huge crush on him or something not to go 7-3-1 and keep the versatile asset we just picked up that filled one of our team’s needs to a tee

At that point, Holl would have been the best player available for Seattle to choose and you're forcing their hand.

I think Seattle would have had the option to flip Holl for prospects because there would definitely be teams throughout the league who could use him.

 

[TML Dynasty]

It's possible they would have changed a player or two if someone like Holl was available to them. Maybe they don't pick Soucy over Kahkonen, for example. Who knows. There's no way to know. Seems like the Leafs knew they would take Holl or else... why go this route, right?

They wanted to keep their top 4 intact, which has been the best defense the Leafs have had in a very very long time. I don't see the problem.

The only issue I have with that is the need to play Sandin and Lil. If we are keeping the top 4 intact, we cant have them as the 3rd pair......trade one?

 

[SprDaVE]

Again, I think the only reason the 2M is even highlighted is because Dubas f***ed up the cap so badly that it's needed. Find a defenseman for 3-5M to play in the top 4. Try Liljegren, try Dermott. They both had great stats with Muzzin, arguably better but smaller sample size.

6'5 is meh, he's not running guys out of the rink like Zadorov or anything.

He's got a huge reach and it's part of why he's so good defensively to go with being a good skater. It has nothing to do with hitting, even though he was 2nd in hits.

So you'd rather lose a good defenseman signed to a good deal to try a couple maybes, instead of understanding that the defense of this team was very good and the Leafs wanted to keep their top 4 pairings for a very good reason. Dermott or Liljegren will get their chance but let's not pretend they've been dominating in their respective roles.

If Dermott and/or Liljegren play well, I am sure there won't be any issues dropping Holl down in the depth chart and there won't be any issues with that since his cap hit is respectable.

 

[Mickey Marner]

View attachment 454523

2M defenseman that can't defend or create offense without Jake Muzzin? You can sign pylons for 750k every year.

Sample size is small there, but even if you extend it to 2018-19 it doesn't flatter Holl.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Players[/TD][TD]TOI[/TD][TD]CF%[/TD][TD]GF%[/TD][TD]xGF%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Holl/Muzzin[/TD][TD]1274:04[/TD][TD]51.65[/TD][TD]56.45[/TD][TD]55.90[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Holl w/o Muzzin[/TD][TD]912:58[/TD][TD]50.21[/TD][TD]43.06[/TD][TD]49.29[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Muzzin w/o Holl[/TD][TD]1164:33[/TD][TD]54.68[/TD][TD]57.27[/TD][TD]52.65[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Leafs w/o both[/TD][TD]6936:00[/TD][TD]51.30[/TD][TD]54.25[/TD][TD]51.66[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]

I would say that Holl looks how you would expect a defenseman that didn't become a full-time NHL'er until he was ~28 years old to look. Not sure he's the guy we should be log-jamming our defense over. If we keep him I'd like to see him bumped down to the third pair so we can at least try guys like Liljegren and Dermott up in the lineup rather than let them rot away playing nothing minutes.

 

[SprDaVE]

The only issue I have with that is the need to play Sandin and Lil. If we are keeping the top 4 intact, we cant have them as the 3rd pair......trade one?

Why couldn't they?

Also, injuries don't happen? Depth isn't good to have?

 

[WTFMAN99]

He's got a huge reach and it's part of why he's so good defensively to go with being a good skater. It has nothing to do with hitting, even though he was 2nd in hits.

So you'd rather lose a good defenseman signed to a good deal to try a couple maybes, instead of understanding that the defense of this team was very good and the Leafs wanted to keep their top 4 pairings for a very good reason. Dermott or Liljegren will get their chance but let's not pretend they've been dominating in their respective roles.

It's a mirage, just the Canadian division.

Run the same team back against the rest of the league, it won't be near the top of defensive stastics.

He's also not very good defensively, he's ass, just propped up by Muzzin.

 

[SprDaVE]

It's a mirage, just the Canadian division.

Run the same team back against the rest of the league, it won't be near the top of defensive stastics.

He's also not very good defensively, he's ass, just propped up by Muzzin.

I disagree and clearly the Leafs and Seattle does too. But we'll see.

I'd rather have Holl than most of the similar defensemen available to sign in free agency for probably double his cap hit.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Everyone here wants to shit on Dubas for trading for McCann then having him selected making our XD loss Hallander + 7th are ignoring the other side of this coin. Hextall and Burke just lost two quality roster players in the XD trying to outsmart others. Dumbass Dubas lost none.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Sample size is small there, but even if you extend it to 2018-19 it doesn't flatter Holl.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Players[/TD][TD]TOI[/TD][TD]CF%[/TD][TD]GF%[/TD][TD]xGF%[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Holl/Muzzin[/TD][TD]1274:04[/TD][TD]51.65[/TD][TD]56.45[/TD][TD]55.90[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Holl w/o Muzzin[/TD][TD]912:58[/TD][TD]50.21[/TD][TD]43.06[/TD][TD]49.29[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Muzzin w/o Holl[/TD][TD]1164:33[/TD][TD]54.68[/TD][TD]57.27[/TD][TD]52.65[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Leafs w/o both[/TD][TD]6936:00[/TD][TD]51.30[/TD][TD]54.25[/TD][TD]51.66[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
I would say that Holl looks how you would expect a defenseman that didn't become a full-time NHL'er until he was ~28 years old to look. Not sure he's the guy we should be log-jamming our defense over. If we keep him I'd like to see him bumped down to the third pair so we can at least try guys like Liljegren and Dermott up in the lineup rather than let them rot away playing nothing minutes.

Yuck lol.

I disagree and clearly the Leafs and Seattle does too. But we'll see.

I don't see where Seattle comes in here, they took a guy off our roster that we just acquired, wasn't around last season.

Leafs opinion doesn't count for anything, their judgement to this point hasn't won a single playoff round and they're in cap hell.

 

[SprDaVE]

Yuck lol.



I don't see where Seattle comes in here, they took a guy off our roster that we just acquired, wasn't around last season.

Leafs opinion doesn't count for anything, their judgement to this point hasn't won a single playoff round and they're in cap hell.

Leafs didn't lose in the playoffs because they had Holl either and cap hell is certainly being very dramatic. This isn't cap hell.

But sure, losing Holl and keeping McCann would have clearly been THE play.

 

[Torontonian]

Leafs finally had decent D last year and folks around here complaining that we are running it back.

That's the baffling thing, to me our only bright spot from last season looks like we finally have a D-core that can play in our own end and doesn't look awful.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Everyone here wants to shit on Dubas for trading for McCann then having him selected making our XD loss Hallander + 7th are ignoring the other side of this coin. Hextall and Burke just lost two quality roster players in the XD trying to outsmart others. Dumbass Dubas lost none.

There's lots of reasons to shit on Dubas

 

[Duffman955]

The more I think about it, the more that Muzzin trade looks real good

 

[ToneDog]

That's the baffling thing, to me our only bright spot from last season looks like we finally have a D-core that can play in our own end and doesn't look awful.

The Habs d stopped our 3 elie amigos while ours could not stop their three smurfs. IMO as it stands our d core is middle of the pack at best and it will be plain to see starting in October when we won't be facing the same sad 7 teams.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Leafs didn't lose in the playoffs because they had Holl either and cap hell is certainly being very dramatic. This isn't cap hell.

But sure, losing Holl and keeping McCann would have clearly been THE play.

Justin Holl - game 7 even strength

all situations

Game 6

even strength

All situations

Game 5 - Jake Muzzin in partially

Even strength

All situations

For fun - game 4 with a healthy Muzzin

Even strength

All situations

Man how are we gonna replace him????

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

The more I think about it, the more that Muzzin trade looks real good

He is their best D by a mile.

 

[LaPlante94]

Everyone here wants to shit on Dubas for trading for McCann then having him selected making our XD loss Hallander + 7th are ignoring the other side of this coin. Hextall and Burke just lost two quality roster players in the XD trying to outsmart others. Dumbass Dubas lost none.

Well it looks like Pittsburgh gained Hallander and a 7th round pick and got rid of a bad contract in Tanev. So basically they lost what we lost and that's just McCann. I wouldn't say they lost two quality roster players when they got Hallinder who can probably replace Tanev at a much cheaper price. Dubas screwed up, it's ok to admit that. Everyone isn't perfect.

 

[Smif]

Leafs finally had decent D last year and folks around here complaining that we are running it back.

You're right, our D was solid last year. We need to focus on a third line with intangibles. Kerfoot isn't ideal but he could work there if he had some wingers not named Mikheyev and Engvall.