Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[meefer]

NHL is NOT A DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE, AHL is the development league. In the NHL, it's do or die.

So if the young is not able to do more than a 4th line veteran, he doesn't deserve to be there. That's it.

I disagree. Be it a 4th line player, 3rd pairing D, or a young goalie, unless you are an extremely talented young player it takes time to adjust to the game in every step up from your previous level of accomplishment. If you believe in a young player you give them a chance to learn the game at its highest level, warts and all.

 

[Kiwi]

The cold hard truth is Robertson wants something he hasn't earned

He's a defensive liability who can't stay fit and didn't play well enough to get Keefe to trust him with minutes or any sort of responsibility and now he's demanding a trade because he hasn't been given exactly what he wants

**** him, screw letting this brat tell us what's going to happen, sit him on his ass until we get what we want for a change and if he wants to ruin his career being an entitled prick I'm more than happy to oblige him

This is a business and he's nothing but an asset, let's treat him like it

 

[Americanadian]

Pre-season changes:

To WSH: Jarnkrok, Liljegren
To TOR: McMichael, TVR

To MTL: Kampf, Robertson
To TOR: Evans, 25 3rd

To SJS: 25 5th
To TOR: Kostin

Sign Clutterbuck 800kx1

Knies-Matthews-Domi
Kostin-Tavares-Marner
McMann-McMichael-Nylander
Dewar-Evans-Clutterbuck
Holmberg-Reaves

Rielly-Tanev
Benoit-McCabe
OEL-TVR

The 22 man roster has ~200k in cap space. I’d Reaves disappears they can afford 2 league minimum roster players for a 23 man roster.

 

[thusk]

I disagree. Be it a 4th line player, 3rd pairing D, or a young goalie, unless you are an extremely talented young player it takes time to adjust to the game in every step up from your previous level of accomplishment. If you believe in a young player you give them a chance to learn the game at its highest level, warts and all.

How many chance liljegren And robertson got last 2-3 season to prove themself? Liljegren and robertson got all the chance of the world to prove it, they never been able to take it

Knies got the chance to prove himself and he won his spot and never looked back the 1st time he had it. Benoit and Mcmann both started in the AHL,but when they get their chance, their won their spot and never looked back again.Same with Woll in net... It's how it's working

You can't hold hand of every young player forever, you can do it for a very short period but you can't for 100-200 games or even 30-40( who's around 40% of regular season).

 

[conFABulator]

How many chance liljegren And robertson got last 2-3 season to prove themself? Liljegren and robertson got all the chance of the world to prove it, they never been able to take it

Knies got the chance to prove himself and he won his spot and never looked back the 1st time he had it. Benoit and Mcmann both started in the AHL,but when they get their chance, their won their spot and never looked back again.Same with Woll in net... It's how it's working

You can't hold hand of every young player forever, you can do it for a very short period but you can't for 100-200 games or even 30-40( who's around 40% of regular season).

They say it takes about 200 games for an NHL defenseman to develop their game. Liljegren will play his 200th this year.

Benoit got his 200th in last year. He had already had one team walk away from home. Liljegren has shown flashes and maybe a new coach gets that consistency level up also..or maybe 200 games brings that? He looked pretty good when Reilly eas out.

Robertson hasn't played much and gets no PP time. He was top 30 in the NHL though for ES goals per 60 minutes. Patience with these guys works some times too. Again, new coach and let's see

 

[Americanadian]

They say it takes about 200 games for an NHL defenseman to develop their game. Liljegren will play his 200th this year.

Benoit got his 200th in last year. He had already had one team walk away from home. Liljegren has shown flashes and maybe a new coach gets that consistency level up also..or maybe 200 games brings that? He looked pretty good when Reilly eas out.

He's really played 209 NHL games if you include playoffs. He's at 196 regular season games. I don't think the spirit of the saying "200 games to develop" means a significant step will be taken between games 196 and 200.

 

[conFABulator]

He's really played 209 NHL games if you include playoffs. He's at 196 regular season games. I don't think the spirit of the saying "200 games to develop" means a significant step will be taken between games 196 and 200.

Agreed. I don't think it is an exact number either. My point is Liljegren is right around the point where either see him take a step or not. Benoit too...similar age and similar experience level. A team have up on Benoit last year. Was that the right call?

 

[Dekes For Days]

That’s not really an answer. Robertson didn’t do anything to justify his spot being protected.

It is an answer. Everybody had disappointing production in that series, but Robertson wasn't really given a chance to produce with less than 10 minutes a night in a disjointed bottom six and little PP time. Still, he was driving play well, got a number of good chances, and wasn't getting goals scored against him, after earning his spot throughout the regular season. And his best quality is something we desperately needed, and he's a young player that we want to gain experience.

Know who didn't produce, didn't do anything to justify a spot at any point, and who we didn't need? People who got spots over him. He's right to be frustrated.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Liljegren and robertson got all the chance of the world to prove it, they never been able to take it
Knies got the chance to prove himself and he won his spot and never looked back the 1st time he had it. Benoit and Mcmann both started in the AHL,but when they get their chance, their won their spot and never looked back again.Same with Woll in net... It's how it's working

Knies was slotted directly into the top six and got to play primarily with the core 4 since. He never really had to earn his spot and work his way up.
Woll has been handed the #1 goalie position, without ever earning it.
Both McMann and Benoit were given bigger roles and raises, without doing any more to earn them than Robertson.
Robertson hasn't really gotten these opportunities, despite earning them. He's been punted to disjointed lines in the bottom six and given no ice time, no matter what he does.

 

[Americanadian]

Agreed. I don't think it is an exact number either. My point is Liljegren is right around the point where either see him take a step or not. Benoit too...similar age and similar experience level. A team have up on Benoit last year. Was that the right call?

Anaheim didn't qualify Benoit. They gave him up for free. I haven't seen a single person advocate for giving up Liljegren for free.

The Leafs gave up on Sandin well before 200 games, was that the right call? They held Dermott beyond 200 games waiting for him to take a step, was that the right call?

I'd say if a team value Liljegren and you can set a similar young asset who hasn't taken a step in the NHL the Leafs should do it (depending on the position). That's why I have been proposing TVR and McMichael for Liljegren and Jarnkrok. Washington may see the value of reuniting Sandin with Liljegren, they had their greatest NHL success with each other. McMichael looks to have lost his C job to Lapierre and PLD, Toronto could use a C. TVR has been dominating (analytically) 3RD minutes for years.

 

[conFABulator]

Anaheim didn't qualify Benoit. They gave him up for free. I haven't seen a single person advocate for giving up Liljegren for free.

The Leafs gave up on Sandin well before 200 games, was that the right call? They held Dermott beyond 200 games waiting for him to take a step, was that the right call?

I'd say if a team value Liljegren and you can set a similar young asset who hasn't taken a step in the NHL the Leafs should do it (depending on the position). That's why I have been proposing TVR and McMichael for Liljegren and Jarnkrok. Washington may see the value of reuniting Sandin with Liljegren, they had their greatest NHL success with each other. McMichael looks to have lost his C job to Lapierre and PLD, Toronto could use a C. TVR has been dominating (analytically) 3RD minutes for years.

Really, stick around for ten minutes and watch a half dozen people say get rid of Liljegren.

I think the Sandin comparable is a good one. He is a top 4 dman in Washington now. Also a good comparable because if a team offered us a first for Liljegren I would probably take it. Washington way overpaid in that deal and it was a good trade for the Leafs. I can't imagine Washington overlays again and I don't think we should be trading young D for your F right now.

Let's see what another ye as r of experience, a new coach, presumably a new partner in OEL. Was it wise for Anaheim to let Benoit walk?

 

[Americanadian]

Really, stick around for ten minutes and watch a half dozen people say get rid of Liljegren.

I have been back on these boards for a week and I haven't seen 1 poster say the Leafs should move off Liljegren for nothing.

I think the Sandin comparable is a good one. He is a top 4 dman in Washington now. Also a good comparable because if a team offered us a first for Liljegren I would probably take it. Washington way overpaid in that deal and it was a good trade for the Leafs.

Sandin was abysmal last year. He played big minutes and got crushed. As of right now the Leafs got out at the perfect time. Maybe Sandin turns it around and becomes a strong top 4LD but at the time being that isn't the case.

I can't imagine Washington overlays again and I don't think we should be trading young D for your F right now.

I don't know if TVR+McMichael for Liljegren+Jarnkrok is an overpay. I also don't know why the Leafs shouldn't be targeting a young C with offensive upside. They currently have 0 in the org.

Was it wise for Anaheim to let Benoit walk?

No. They should have qualified him and tried to recoup an asset if they were done with him.

 

[conFABulator]

I have been back on these boards for a week and I haven't seen 1 poster say the Leafs should move off Liljegren for nothing.

Sandin was abysmal last year. He played big minutes and got crushed. As of right now the Leafs got out at the perfect time. Maybe Sandin turns it around and becomes a strong top 4LD but at the time being that isn't the case.

No. They should have qualified him and tried to recoup an asset if they were done with him.

I think we actually agree that Sandin is not a good top 4, though he does get paid and played like a top 4. Getting Cowan and Gustafsson and avoiding that resign was a magical move.

Liljegren could still become a top four and I believe he is better than Sandin. The price is ok for him too and he is reaching an age and experience level where we might see a next level. A new coach and d unit and partner with better goaltending behind him could also help.

That's great that you haven't seen anyone say we should dump Liljegren in a slow week in August on these boards. It happens a lot, you even see projects lineup without him and no explanation for where he went or what the return was.

As I said, if we got offered a first or fair value for him then I would move him. A young F struggling with a team weaker than ours is not what I would be looking for.

 

[Americanadian]

Liljegren could still become a top four and I believe he is better than Sandin. The price is ok for him too and he is reaching an age and experience level where we might see a next level. A new coach and d unit and partner with better goaltending behind him could also help.

There's a lot of hope here. Fans are allowed to have hope.

That's great that you haven't seen anyone say we should dump Liljegren in a slow week in August on these boards. It happens a lot, you even see projects lineup without him and no explanation for where he went or what the return was.

This sounds like a strawman. I was on this board all June and July, I wasn't in August. I never saw these claims in June/July. If you see anyone earnestly say the Leafs should move off Liljegren for nothing between now and the start of the season please tag me.

As I said, if we got offered a first or fair value for him then I would move him. A young F struggling with a team weaker than ours is not what I would be looking for.

Sounds like we agree that he shouldn't be dropped for nothing. I would jump at the opportunity to move him for a young C, sounds like you disagree.

 

[Sypher04]

It is an answer. Everybody had disappointing production in that series, but Robertson wasn't really given a chance to produce with less than 10 minutes a night in a disjointed bottom six and little PP time. Still, he was driving play well, got a number of good chances, and wasn't getting goals scored against him, after earning his spot throughout the regular season. And his best quality is something we desperately needed, and he's a young player that we want to gain experience.

Know who didn't produce, didn't do anything to justify a spot at any point, and who we didn't need? People who got spots over him. He's right to be frustrated.

Some frustration is fine. Healthy even but at the end of the day Nick needs to play better if he wants to retain his spot and not be in danger of being replaced in the lineup by the coaching when they are looking for something else in the lineup. It’s really that simple.

 

[notdoneyet]

Lilly doesn’t have the hockey IQ to be a top four. He also can’t handle the physicality especially in the playoffs.

If he has good value we should get rid of him before the rest of the league finds out what he really is

I want to be the first to say this we should let him go for nothing lol

At the end of the day Nick needs to play better if he wants to retain his spot and not be in danger of being by the coaching when they are looking for something else in the lineup. It’s really that simple.

He is a goal scorer with soft hands and a good shot. When he gets his 6/8 minutes a night everyv3/4 games all he does is get points.
Stupid to let him go he will score 30-40 for another team being used right

 

[Sypher04]

Lilly doesn’t have the hockey IQ to be a top four. He also can’t handle the physicality especially in the playoffs.

If he has good value we should get rid of him before the rest of the league finds out what he really is

I want to be the first to say this we should let him go for nothing lol


He is a goal scorer with soft hands and a good shot. When he gets his 6/8 minutes a night everyv3/4 games all he does is get points.
Stupid to let him go he will score 30-40 for another team being used right

I’d be happy to keep him and continue developing him into I think a potentially very good player, but he clearly doesn’t intend to cooperate with us, so it is what it is

And he played like 11-12 mins average so I’m not sure where you got 6-8 from

 

[ULF_55]

NHL is NOT A DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE, AHL is the development league. In the NHL, it's do or die.

So if the young is not able to do more than a 4th line veteran, he doesn't deserve to be there. That's it.

Although this is said many times, it is just not accurate.

There is no proven NHL prospect playing in the AHL who hasn't already played in the NHL.

No player is a proven NHL player before playing in the NHL.

From what I've heard there are coaches and development staff for NHL players.

NHL is definitely a league where players are developed beyond what is developed in the minors/junior.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm not sure that a TOI of 9:47 in 6 games is really that good of a 'shot', it's 1.5 minutes less per game than his regular season average. I hope he signs, imo a better way to help the team than trying to get Pac.

Sorry, same was said earlier.

Ice time for Robertson.
Home: 9:42, 10:55, 10:36
Boston: 10:38, 7:21, 9:34

 

[Roo]

I’d rather bring on JVR ovrr Paccioretty

 

[Fogelhund]

I’d rather bring on JVR ovrr Paccioretty

I'd rather not do a SPC than either.... maybe a PTO, but not a SPC.

 

[VanW27]

I'd rather not do a SPC than either.... maybe a PTO, but not a SPC.

Agreed, what's the best case here with Patches/JVR? 20 goals, 2nd PP, black hole defensively?

No thanks. Give those minutes to Robby, or even a guy like Steeves. He probably won't hurt you as much defensively and will give you 15+ with that type of deployment, and at least there's some upside there.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Agreed, what's the best case here with Patches/JVR? 20 goals, 2nd PP, black hole defensively?

No thanks. Give those minutes to Robby, or even a guy like Steeves. He probably won't hurt you as much defensively and will give you 15+ with that type of deployment, and at least there's some upside there.

If Robertson won't sign, we have to look at other options.

 

[Roo]

I'd rather not do a SPC than either.... maybe a PTO, but not a SPC.

At this point I kind of assumed it would be a pto. So agreed.

 

[Lightsol]

The cold hard truth is Robertson wants something he hasn't earned

Better question: What does he have to do to earn a spot on this team? Because it seems to me like the real problem with Robertson was Keefe.