Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[rumman]

Refuses to address? What more change could they have possibly made this offseason? I asked it before but you didn't answer.

New coach
New captain
New PP coach
50% new D since opening night last year
New goaltending tandem
No need deal for Marner
No extension for Tavares
Room for youth to break into the lineup
...they even changed the F***king goal song last year.

Seriously, doing nothing to address? What more specifically would you like to I have seen done this offseason?

You still don’t get what the problem is do you?

 

[conFABulator]

You still don’t get what the problem is do you?

Probably not as you do, I also don't see you explaining it to me or explaining what more we could have done THIS off-season to address it.

You said we are are refusing to address it. What is IT (exactly) and now more could we have addressed it?

 

[rumman]

Probably not as you do, I also don't see you explaining it to me or explaining what more we could have done THIS off-season to address it.

You said we are are refusing to address it. What is IT (exactly) and now more could we have addressed it?

The core is the problem, everyone knows this. Your boy Tre could only resign 34 to a term favourably to the player, he grossly overpaid Nylander, will most likely resign Marner to another bad deal.

Can’t fix a problem when you keep re upping them, that’s why I see nothing to be hopeful about………

 

[conFABulator]

The core is the problem, everyone knows this. Your boy Tre could only resign 34 to a term favourably to the player, he grossly overpaid Nylander, will most likely resign Marner to another bad deal.

Can’t fix a problem when you keep re upping them, that’s why I see nothing to be hopeful about………

I see, so nothing then? There is nothing they could have done differently this offseason?

This was Treliving's first full off-season and first chance to show us what he wants to do. He's not my boy by the way, I didn't want him hired and am watching to see what he does now. What makes him "my boy", not hating him?

I literally don't know what he could have done better this offseason. Neither do you. I asked and you didn't have an answer. He didn't re-up anyone but you are upset (is that better than grumpy?) about something he will likely do, but hasn't done yet.

In the next 12 months contracts will leap over Nylander and even Matthews and you will realize deals with term in a rising cap is a good strategy.

Now, if you think they should have walked away from Matthews and Nylander then say that. That was Tre's only other option....I don't think walking away from either of those two makes any sense.

 

[Americanadian]

I see, so nothing then? There is nothing they could have done differently this offseason?

This was Treliving's first full off-season and first chance to show us what he wants to do. He's not my boy by the way, I didn't want him hired and am watching to see what he does now. What makes him "my boy", not hating him?

I literally don't know what he could have done better this offseason. Neither do you. I asked and you didn't have an answer. He didn't re-up anyone but you are upset (is that better than grumpy?) about something he will likely do, but hasn't done yet.

In the next 12 months contracts will leap over Nylander and even Matthews and you will realize deals with term in a rising cap is a good strategy.

Now, if you think they should have walked away from Matthews and Nylander then say that. That was Tre's only other option....I don't think walking away from either of those two makes any sense.

I'll bite. After wasting 3.75M last off-season on Kampf and Reaves he doubled down by spending 3.5M on OEL who just came off a playoff run where he averaged 15 minutes/game. He's a 3rd pair LD with a history of complacency now signed until he's 36. Now they're forced to play one of McCabe or Benoit on their off-side which is fine for a few games but should not have been the plan for the full season. Rielly/McCabe/Benoit as 1/2/3LD was perfectly fine.

That money would have been better used by over-bidding for Matt Roy who is a legitimate top 4RD. If they could have got Roy for 6M (which based on the reporting sounds realistic) they would have been much better off.

The difference between 3.5M and 6M can be made up by moving off Kampf which should have been a top priority given the emergence of Holmberg as a 4C option and bringing in Dewar who has played a lot of 4C NHL minutes.

The Stolarz contract was great. The Domi signing was good. The Tanev contract, assuming he goes to LTIR as soon as his play dips, is good. The Liljegren contract was fair value, it sounds like there was no market for a trade given the reporting around the draft.

Assuming McCabe is re-signed (which was heavily speculated leading into the draft) the Leafs will have the same 4 NHL LD moving forward. McCabe is miles better than OEL today, if he is not re-signed so OEL/Benoit can take up 2LD minutes that would be a disaster (assuming McCabe isn't going to be overpaid).

Also doing nothing to address 3C seems like a miss. We'll see who plays there as the season starts. Any C option would have probably required moving salary out and performing multiple trades which is not something Treliving seems capable of.

 

[LeafSteel]

I very much lament missing out on Roy and Lindholm this summer.

We are now going to spend years watching Lindholm do to us what we desperately needed from in a 2C.

Would rather have Roy than Tanev by a significant margin, and would have done an overpay to beat out Washington.

Would have done a lot to make the cap fit for both, understanding a year of pain this year but a lot of opportunity for our young guys to take a spot.

Oh well. Wish in one hand and spit in the other….

 

[thusk]

I'm not sure what you're measuring there though.

Benoit's game is so limited, more or less does one thing.

Difference between a master carpenter and a framer is huge.

How much skill for a framer to become proficient compared to a master carpenter?

Benoit is a framer.
Liljegren is learning to be a master carpenter.

Did Liljegren have more skill and higher potential? yes for sure

I will using your same analogy

A pretty excellent farmer who doing his job perfectly vs a half carpenter who struggling to build anything enough solid to be useful. If Liljegren don't become a master carpenter like you said, he become pretty useless. All the hope is in what hes maybe could So at end, the farmer more useful than the half-carpenter

That's well put, Benoit does seem more predictable and reliable and those are valuable attributes in a defenseman. We seem to be trying to trade for that every TDL. I do like Benoit a lot and we need guys like him at low AAVs.

However, if we are a contender, he should be a bottom pairing guy or even a seven. Liljegren offers the potential for more than that. He COULD be a top four. He skates better, he handles the puck better, he can skate out of trouble and play the PP. Now, be doesn't do any of those things with consistency or reliability and that's the problem.

He is a higher ceiling player and Benoit appears to be a higher floor player. The former are more valuable when they hit obviously but they don't always hit. They can take time and it can be a risk reward. Liljegren could be the next Strahlman and we will miss him when he is gone or he could be the next Dermott and we wonder why ever thought he might be more.

If it weren't for the changes around Lily this year I would have less reason for hope that he takes another step forward. My hope is based on his age and experience (200 games), playing with OEL and having a different coach and system. Let's see...not a lot of lead remaining on his leash though



Master carpenter skills take much longer to develop than the framer.

For me both Liljegren/ Benoit in a contender team would be a bottom pairing D or 7th D. Yes his potential is higher but like i said to ulf, if he can't develop and use this potential, potential alone bring absolutly nothing.

Personally i really not sure he will play will Oel. I thing it would look more like
OEL-Mccabe
Benoit-Liljegren


I give an Exemple to both of you : liljegren vs boqvist. Did liljegren is really better or just playing in a better team and been more protected from their weakness than Boqvist? Who having the biggest celling between both?

 

[Dekes For Days]

false Knies started on a 3rd line with oreilly and acciari and he basically his spot for next season there...

Knies' most common linemates in the regular season were O'Rielly/Nylander in 2022-2023 and Matthews/Marner in 2023-2024. In the playoffs, his most common linemates were Matthews/Marner in 2022-2023 and Tavares/Nylander in 2023-2024. Knies didn't really have an "earn it" period, and has largely been the top-six playing with our best players for the majority of his time in the league, even through struggles and dips. This is in direct contrast to Robertson, who has spent very little time in the top six or with our best players, even when playing really well.

Woll step up when injuries came. He took his spot and keep it.

Being the best available non-injured goalie at a particular moment does not equal earning a #1 goalie position. And he actually struggled down the stretch and lost his job. Still, he was given a raise beyond his actual current status, and penciled in as the #1 goalie for us this year. He didn't have to scrape and claw for that.

Mcmann playing physical, was working extremely hard,pretty good on forecheck and he's good defensively. So you put Mcmann with skilled player and he will find a way to bring back the puck with how he's playing. Even if Mcmann get 0 points, he can still have an impact.
Benoit it's basically the same thing. Even if
Robertson what he's bring? Scoring ability, thats it. When exemple hes playing with AM or WN/MM line,he doesn't help to this line to get the puck more and nylander, marner, matthews had to make the hard stuff. That's why Robertson struggling to keep a top 6 spot or even a lune up spot, if he don't score, he's totally uselss

These are just inaccurate descriptions of the players and their play, not examples of how they had to earn their opportunities and work their way up. Benoit played horribly in the season before last and in pre-season for us, and yet he was handed a spot because Treliving was inept at building defense and signed an injured player that broke down immediately. Even McMann has gotten more opportunity and minutes, and while you've attempted to claim separation that isn't really there in their effort/forechecking/defense, McMann doesn't actually bring anything that Robertson doesn't outside of size. Robertson, however, brings valuable things that McMann doesn't, that could be better utilized higher in the lineup playing with quality offensive players, or on the PP. Especially when we are in desperate need of scoring ability and offense.

 

[conFABulator]

For me both Liljegren/ Benoit in a contender team would be a bottom pairing D or 7th D. Yes his potential is higher but like i said to ulf, if he can't develop and use this potential, potential alone bring absolutly nothing.

Personally i really not sure he will play will Oel. I thing it would look more like
OEL-Mccabe
Benoit-Liljegren


I give an Exemple to both of you : liljegren vs boqvist. Did liljegren is really better or just playing in a better team and been more protected from their weakness than Boqvist? Who having the biggest celling between both?

I don't agree, but you could be right.

If Liljegren really has no higher ceiling that Benoit then we should move him now, because he is overpaid for that role. Obviously, I think he COULD be a top four.

As for pairings, your bottom pairing concerns me as I don't think neither of Benoit or Liljegren can carry or cover for the other.

Reilly Tanev
OEL Liljegren
Benoit McCabe


I think the second pairing gives us a solid vet and fellow countryman to work with Lilly. I also think OEL will be really good. The third paring is proven. I see it as more of a 2A/2B situation with each pairing getting roughly equal minutes.

 

[IPS]

Knies' most common linemates in the regular season were O'Rielly/Nylander in 2022-2023 and Matthews/Marner in 2023-2024. In the playoffs, his most common linemates were Matthews/Marner in 2022-2023 and Tavares/Nylander in 2023-2024. Knies didn't really have an "earn it" period, and has largely been the top-six playing with our best players for the majority of his time in the league, even through struggles and dips. This is in direct contrast to Robertson, who has spent very little time in the top six or with our best players, even when playing really well.

Being the best available non-injured goalie at a particular moment does not equal earning a #1 goalie position. And he actually struggled down the stretch and lost his job. Still, he was given a raise beyond his actual current status, and penciled in as the #1 goalie for us this year. He didn't have to scrape and claw for that.

These are just inaccurate descriptions of the players and their play, not examples of how they had to earn their opportunities and work their way up. Benoit played horribly in the season before last and in pre-season for us, and yet he was handed a spot because Treliving was inept at building defense and signed an injured player that broke down immediately. Even McMann has gotten more opportunity and minutes, and while you've attempted to claim separation that isn't really there in their effort/forechecking/defense, McMann doesn't actually bring anything that Robertson doesn't outside of size. Robertson, however, brings valuable things that McMann doesn't, that could be better utilized higher in the lineup playing with quality offensive players, or on the PP. Especially when we are in desperate need of scoring ability and offense.

I get it that you like shitting on every Treliving player but Benoit absolutely and undisputedly earned his spot in the lineup with his strong play. Way off your rocker here James.

 

[IPS]

Robertson what he's bring? Scoring ability, thats it. When exemple hes playing with AM or WN/MM line,he doesn't help to this line to get the puck more and nylander, marner, matthews had to make the hard stuff. That's why Robertson struggling to keep a top 6 spot or even a lune up spot, if he don't score, he's totally uselss

James wasn't paying too much attention when Robertson got a couple looks in the top-6 when there were injuries and looked woefully terrible and out of place.

Must be a weird spot for him loving Keefe but at the same time having to shit on him for his "misuse" of Robertson, easier to just pretend it was Treliving pulling all the strings with that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I get it that you like shitting on every Treliving player but Benoit absolutely and undisputedly earned his spot in the lineup with his strong play.

I like Benoit. He played well enough to hold a roster spot once he was here, but he got a bigger role than he earned, and he didn't earn a spot on the team in the first place. He was only there because Treliving failed with the Klingberg signing.

 

[thusk]

Knies' most common linemates in the regular season were O'Rielly/Nylander in 2022-2023 and Matthews/Marner in 2023-2024. In the playoffs, his most common linemates were Matthews/Marner in 2022-2023 and Tavares/Nylander in 2023-2024. Knies didn't really have an "earn it" period, and has largely been the top-six playing with our best players for the majority of his time in the league, even through struggles and dips. This is in direct contrast to Robertson, who has spent very little time in the top six or with our best players, even when playing really well.

Being the best available non-injured goalie at a particular moment does not equal earning a #1 goalie position. And he actually struggled down the stretch and lost his job. Still, he was given a raise beyond his actual current status, and penciled in as the #1 goalie for us this year. He didn't have to scrape and claw for that.

These are just inaccurate descriptions of the players and their play, not examples of how they had to earn their opportunities and work their way up. Benoit played horribly in the season before last and in pre-season for us, and yet he was handed a spot because Treliving was inept at building defense and signed an injured player that broke down immediately. Even McMann has gotten more opportunity and minutes, and while you've attempted to claim separation that isn't really there in their effort/forechecking/defense, McMann doesn't actually bring anything that Robertson doesn't outside of size. Robertson, however, brings valuable things that McMann doesn't, that could be better utilized higher in the lineup playing with quality offensive players, or on the PP. Especially when we are in desperate need of scoring ability and offense.

he played 3 regular game in 2022 2023 in 3 game who meant absoluly nothing t
just to see if he could become a weapon if needed in playoff. When he make himself a name was during the playoff along side oreilly and acciari.

And tell be outside of Bertuzzi, who was dangerous for knies on left wing after what he showed in playoff???

I don't agree, but you could be right.

If Liljegren really has no higher ceiling that Benoit then we should move him now, because he is overpaid for that role. Obviously, I think he COULD be a top four.

As for pairings, your bottom pairing concerns me as I don't think neither of Benoit or Liljegren can carry or cover for the other.

Reilly Tanev
OEL Liljegren
Benoit McCabe


I think the second pairing gives us a solid vet and fellow countryman to work with Lilly. I also think OEL will be really good. The third paring is proven. I see it as more of a 2A/2B situation with each pairing getting roughly equal minutes.

I never said Liljegren celling is not higher but if he don't reach it.

Benoit without the puck he's really good, with the puck hes not good at all. But at least you can use him at 5v5, PK or late in the game when you need a goal

Liljegren is good in everything but great in anaything so... Not enough good offensively to have an impact on PP or late in a game when needed a goal, pretty awful in PK or to be on the ice late to protect your lead... That's my concern with him, of he doesn't develop enough and raise his game, he will still nothing more than a 3rd pair 5v5 D...

 

[IPS]

I like Benoit. He played well enough to hold a roster spot once he was here, but he got a bigger role than he earned, and he didn't earn a spot on the team in the first place. He was only there because Treliving failed with the Klingberg signing.

He plays a completely different role and doesn't even play the same side as Klingberg either. Klingberg's injury had absolutely f*** all to do with Benoit earning his spot. Try to do atleast a bit of rudimentary research before spouting off such wrong opinions.

 

[LeafSteel]

He plays a completely different role and doesn't even play the same side as Klingberg either. Klingberg's injury had absolutely f*** all to do with Benoit earning his spot. Try to do atleast a bit of rudimentary research before spouting off such wrong opinions.

 

[Gallagbi]

For Knies ES playoff line mates in 2023

24:51 (28.6%) - ROR - Accciari
14:58 (17.3%) JT - Marner
13:23 (15.4%) AM - Marner
11:58 (13.8%) AM - Willy
4:45 (5.5%) JT - Willy

 

[conFABulator]

he played 3 regular game in 2022 2023 in 3 game who meant absoluly nothing t
just to see if he could become a weapon if needed in playoff. When he make himself a name was during the playoff along side oreilly and acciari.

And tell be outside of Bertuzzi, who was dangerous for knies on left wing after what he showed in playoff???


I never said Liljegren celling is not higher but if he don't reach it.

Benoit without the puck he's really good, with the puck hes not good at all. But at least you can use him at 5v5, PK or late in the game when you need a goal

Liljegren is good in everything but great in anaything so... Not enough good offensively to have an impact on PP or late in a game when needed a goal, pretty awful in PK or to be on the ice late to protect your lead... That's my concern with him, of he doesn't develop enough and raise his game, he will still nothing more than a 3rd pair 5v5 D...

I know you were saying that Liljegren didn't have a higher ceiling, I was saying that you might be right in that he might not reach it.

I am sick of seeing us move on from players that do reach ceiling elsewhere though. I also believe that this year is a year for us to load up and be ready for a three to five year window of serious contention after this year. What would help this cause is the following.

(1) Youngish/new core players taking a step forward. This would include Liljegren, Benoit, Knies, McMann, Woll, Robertson, Dewar, and Holmberg.

(2) Next wave prospects showing they can contribute (next season). This would include Cowan, Minten, Grebyenkin, Niemela, Hildeby, maybe Steeves.

If we get seven to nine of those guys as actual contributors to the support Matthews, Nylander, Domi, Reilly, Tanev, McCabe, OEL, Stolarz then we may have a recipe here. We can decide what we WANT to do with JT (re-sign for less than $4M per year) and Marner...sign him or let him walk and use the space. We will have lots of space with or without Marner (Tavares savings, cap going up, Kampf and Jarnkrok moved out, not many big resigns (Knies and Woll hitting the books).

 

[Namikaze Minato]

He plays a completely different role and doesn't even play the same side as Klingberg either. Klingberg's injury had absolutely f*** all to do with Benoit earning his spot. Try to do atleast a bit of rudimentary research before spouting off such wrong opinions.

Not to mention Benoit nearly lost the spot to William Lagesson initially then battled, practiced and played his way onto the team.

Pretending he just stepped onto the team and was handed a spot is hilarious.

 

[LeafGrief]

Not to mention Benoit nearly lost the spot to William Lagesson initially then battled, practiced and played his way onto the team.

Pretending he just stepped onto the team and was handed a spot is hilarious.

Even if Benoit WAS gifted a spot on the team, who gives a shit? He was excellent for us, the exact sort of physical defender RHD that we've been clamouring after for years. If the coach believed in him and put him in a position to succeed, and was ultimately rewarded for it, that's a GOOD thing.

Benoit is a good player who can be a physical 4D for us. One of our best defenders in our own zone.

 

[LeafChief]

I truly hope there is some sort of roster move to discuss soon.

Some of y'all are losing your minds in here.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Something exciting would be nice. I think we'll enjoy Tanev, just sucks to get him in his twilight and still have to give so much term.

 

[Gallagbi]

Even if Benoit WAS gifted a spot on the team, who gives a shit? He was excellent for us, the exact sort of physical defender RHD that we've been clamouring after for years. If the coach believed in him and put him in a position to succeed, and was ultimately rewarded for it, that's a GOOD thing.

Benoit is a good player who can be a physical 4D for us. One of our best defenders in our own zone.

He's LH

 

[thusk]

I like Benoit. He played well enough to hold a roster spot once he was here, but he got a bigger role than he earned, and he didn't earn a spot on the team in the first place. He was only there because Treliving failed with the Klingberg signing.

Benoit took gio spot not klinberg spot... the guy who benefit thr most

I know you were saying that Liljegren didn't have a higher ceiling, I was saying that you might be right in that he might not reach it.

I am sick of seeing us move on from players that do reach ceiling elsewhere though. I also believe that this year is a year for us to load up and be ready for a three to five year window of serious contention after this year. What would help this cause is the following.

(1) Youngish/new core players taking a step forward. This would include Liljegren, Benoit, Knies, McMann, Woll, Robertson, Dewar, and Holmberg.

(2) Next wave prospects showing they can contribute (next season). This would include Cowan, Minten, Grebyenkin, Niemela, Hildeby, maybe Steeves.

If we get seven to nine of those guys as actual contributors to the support Matthews, Nylander, Domi, Reilly, Tanev, McCabe, OEL, Stolarz then we may have a recipe here. We can decide what we WANT to do with JT (re-sign for less than $4M per year) and Marner...sign him or let him walk and use the space. We will have lots of space with or without Marner (Tavares savings, cap going up, Kampf and Jarnkrok moved out, not many big resigns (Knies and Woll hitting the books).

That's hockey and with waiver you have no choice to make choice. You can't keep more than 23 player in your club whatever what you want... with team with salary cap issue, this number is lower than 23.

matthews, marner, nylander, tavares, domi, knies, mcmann, kampf, Jarnkrok, the 6 starting D and 2 goalie are lock. So right now already 17 of 23 player are already lock. If exemple cowan, grebenkin and/or minten find a way to win a spot, this number raise at 19 so between 1 to maybe 3 remaining spot for the rest of the team... It's why you're losing player, because better player jump in at this moment and you can't keep everyone and some player still grow up fast late but you can't keep the worst player in case of he becoming one day something great.

i ubderstand your point but take decision to dont lose any player will not bring you the best team

 

[ULF_55]

Duh……..Makar, is a master carpenter, Lilly will never develop the skills or work ethic to become this fictitious master carpenter. Your takes are getting funnier and funnier, keep em coming I always enjoy a good laugh with my morning coffee………..

Maybe you missed the "learning" part.

Makar appears to have mastered all the tools, although he probably still has areas he wants to improve. My speculation is most players always want to be better ... well maybe not Kessel (Kidding Phil).

However, not to go off on a tangent Liljegren's target isn't to be a better 3rd. pairing defender. He might not get there, but his target should be top 3.

I think Benoit is an absolute steal, and maybe he replaces McCabe when his contract expires. That would be my hope, but maybe he can't. Definitely, eliminates any need for another Edmundson unless there are injuries in the top 4.

There's a reason Liljegren gets PP time, and OT time, and more ES time, and Benoit gets more PK time.

 

[Americanadian]

Carolina all of a sudden has cap space to work with now that they've signed their RFA's and Fast is out for the season. They currently have Nadeau and Jost projected as 2/4LW. I could see them having interest in Robertson.

None of their prospects outside of Nikishin look that appealing. I could see them potentially moving a 2nd for him or a 3rd+.