Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[ULF_55]

I very much lament missing out on Roy and Lindholm this summer.

We are now going to spend years watching Lindholm do to us what we desperately needed from in a 2C.

Would rather have Roy than Tanev by a significant margin, and would have done an overpay to beat out Washington.

Would have done a lot to make the cap fit for both, understanding a year of pain this year but a lot of opportunity for our young guys to take a spot.

Oh well. Wish in one hand and spit in the other….

There were a whole bunch of players I'd have preferred, and 2 of them went to Boston.

The thing is even if money was matched, or even a little over, they have to want to come to Canada, and then want to come to Toronto. So taking everything into account, my guess it would have to be a huge overpay.

There was a good explanation from Tanev on tax implications. For him there were tax incentives to stay in Canada. His career, other than 19 games for Dallas, is all Canadian.

 

[conFABulator]

Benoit took gio spot not klinberg spot... the guy who benefit thr most


That's hockey and with waiver you have no choice to make choice. You can't keep more than 23 player in your club whatever what you want... with team with salary cap issue, this number is lower than 23.

matthews, marner, nylander, tavares, domi, knies, mcmann, kampf, Jarnkrok, the 6 starting D and 2 goalie are lock. So right now already 17 of 23 player are already lock. If exemple cowan, grebenkin and/or minten find a way to win a spot, this number raise at 19 so between 1 to maybe 3 remaining spot for the rest of the team... It's why you're losing player, because better player jump in at this moment and you can't keep everyone and some player still grow up fast late but you can't keep the worst player in case of he becoming one day something great.

i ubderstand your point but take decision to dont lose any player will not bring you the best team

I get all of that. Even 23 seems a tad high for the roster when you take cap considerations into account.

We have a lot waiver exempt players on my list of guys we need to integrate; Minten, Grebyenkin, Niemela, Hildeby can all come up and down without fear of losing them. Cowan can play nine games before we have to send him back to London (or keep him on the NHL roster for the year)

Kampf, Jarnkrok, Robertson, McMann, Reaves, Dewar, Timmins and Murray all require waivers and we don't want to be giving any of them away if we don't need to. Knies is waiver exempt but I don't see him getting sent down unless it is a paper transaction for a short period.

Knies Matthews Domi
Holmberg Nylander Marner
Robertson Tavares McMann
Dewar Kampf Jarnkrok
Cowan

Without injuries and assuming we sign Robertson that is my starting F unit. Reaves on waivers and no one takes him. We get Cowan into a handful of games and then likely send him down. We can rotate Grebyenkin and even Minten through in the same way once he is back in the juniors.

My starting D would be

Reilly Tanev
OEL Liljegren
Benoit McCabe
Timmins (or Hakanpaa)

I would consider waiving Timmins if we thought we might lose Murray. I think we will need three goalies and maybe we lose him if he shows he is healthy at camp?

Once injuries hit this all becomes a bit easier to manage, but we do have to protect our valuable assets and shouldn't be losing a Robertson, Holmberg, McMann, Liljegren or Benoit on waivers. I want to be in a position where we have replacements for Kampf and Jarnkrok on the roster this off-season.

 

[Americanadian]

There were a whole bunch of players I'd have preferred, and 2 of them went to Boston.

The thing is even if money was matched, or even a little over, they have to want to come to Canada, and then want to come to Toronto. So taking everything into account, my guess it would have to be a huge overpay.

There was a good explanation from Tanev on tax implications. For him there were tax incentives to stay in Canada. His career, other than 19 games for Dallas, is all Canadian.

It sounds like Matt Roy was very much considering the Leafs but Washington outbid them. He just had his first child and Toronto is fairly close to home which he may have valued.

 

[Madap]

NHL is NOT A DEVELOPMENT LEAGUE, AHL is the development league. In the NHL, it's do or die.

So if the young is not able to do more than a 4th line veteran, he doesn't deserve to be there. That's it.

Thanks for typing in caps. I wouldn’t have been able to understand you otherwise.

You can parrot that all you’d like, but it means literally nothing. Many teams let their young players play and grow on their team, and many players do in fact get better while they play in the NHL (I.e. develop).

I’m not advocating throwing in a freshly drafted player, but if the difference is marginal, it comes down to preference at that point. Keefe clearly liked the more defensively sound players over Robertson, but it doesn’t make them better. He is better than our whole fourth line pretty clearly, but doesn’t fit the same role.

 

[ULF_55]

Did Liljegren have more skill and higher potential? yes for sure

I will using your same analogy

A pretty excellent farmer who doing his job perfectly vs a half carpenter who struggling to build anything enough solid to be useful. If Liljegren don't become a master carpenter like you said, he become pretty useless. All the hope is in what hes maybe could So at end, the farmer more useful than the half-carpenter

For me both Liljegren/ Benoit in a contender team would be a bottom pairing D or 7th D. Yes his potential is higher but like i said to ulf, if he can't develop and use this potential, potential alone bring absolutly nothing.

Personally i really not sure he will play will Oel. I thing it would look more like
OEL-Mccabe
Benoit-Liljegren


I give an Exemple to both of you : liljegren vs boqvist. Did liljegren is really better or just playing in a better team and been more protected from their weakness than Boqvist? Who having the biggest celling between both?

Framer not farmer, but probably translation ...

Anyway, I agree Liljegren has to take the next steps, or he misses and becomes a career 3rd. pairing, who limits what he attempts to do. Off the glass and out, is still a thing.

I'm not sure McCabe will be re-upped.
McCabe will be 31 his next contract.
McCabe Cap is $4mm, he won't be taking a discount, and it will likely be his last big contract.
So is McCabe worth $6mm * 6 or 7 years?

 

[LeafGrief]

He's LH

TRUE. Idk why I always think he's RH.

Either way, he plays defense well, pulverizes wingers along the boards, breaks up cycles and clears the crease. Good player.

 

[LeafSteel]

There were a whole bunch of players I'd have preferred, and 2 of them went to Boston.

The thing is even if money was matched, or even a little over, they have to want to come to Canada, and then want to come to Toronto. So taking everything into account, my guess it would have to be a huge overpay.

There was a good explanation from Tanev on tax implications. For him there were tax incentives to stay in Canada. His career, other than 19 games for Dallas, is all Canadian.

I don’t lament missing out on Zadorov too badly, but Lindholm and Roy were big misses.

Can’t understand Roy’s thinking, if the Leafs and Washington offered similar contracts. Does he honestly think Washington represents the best chance to win?

While I’m good with Tavares this year in the 2C role, I think as soon as next season we are going to have a gaping hole there, and Lindholm would have been an excellent fit, giving us strength down the middle.

As it stands we don’t have a viable option to backfill when Tavares deteriorates ow walks as a UFA ( I say he resigns at a very team friendly contract to finish his career a Leaf).

I absolutely do not buy the whole Nylander or Marner at 2C thing. I’ve never seen the cap any from either. These are not rookies, and you don’t have players almost 10 years into their careers move into new roles, particularly one as demanding and has a steep learning curve like Centre.

We will have a real gap at 2C sooner rather than later and Lindholm would have filled that for years to come.

Oh well….

 

[Menzinger]

Framer not farmer, but probably translation ...

Anyway, I agree Liljegren has to take the next steps, or he misses and becomes a career 3rd. pairing, who limits what he attempts to do. Off the glass and out, is still a thing.

I'm not sure McCabe will be re-upped.
McCabe will be 31 his next contract.
McCabe Cap is $4mm, he won't be taking a discount, and it will likely be his last big contract.
So is McCabe worth $6mm * 6 or 7 years?

I think he'll be closer to 4.5-5ish mil aav (basically what is current dela s with mild inflation adjustment. And if he does I think he gets extended.

Tre likes physical vet D men. Seems like a match made.in heaven for an extension

 

[ULF_55]

While I’m good with Tavares this year in the 2C role, I think as soon as next season we are going to have a gaping hole there, and Lindholm would have been an excellent fit, giving us strength down the middle.

As it stands we don’t have a viable option to backfill when Tavares deteriorates ow walks as a UFA ( I say he resigns at a very team friendly contract to finish his career a Leaf).

I absolutely do not buy the whole Nylander or Marner at 2C thing. I’ve never seen the cap any from either. These are not rookies, and you don’t have players almost 10 years into their careers move into new roles, particularly one as demanding and has a steep learning curve like Centre.

We will have a real gap at 2C sooner rather than later and Lindholm would have filled that for years to come.

Oh well….

There will be a 2C, he might not have the prestige of a 1st. overall pick, but he won't be playing with Matt Moulson, who was a 30 goal scorer only on Tavares' Islanders team.

I'm not worried, there is enough talent to carry a developing center, or a middle 6 free agent center.

 

[ULF_55]

I think he'll be closer to 4.5-5ish mil aav (basically what is current dela s with mild inflation adjustment. And if he does I think he gets extended.

Tre likes physical vet D men. Seems like a match made.in heaven for an extension

That would be fine, but I don't see it.
His last deal, and these defenders are always overpaid in free agency.
Additionally, he is American with the majority of his career in the USofA.

Be interested to know if he waived for Toronto, and if it is just coincidence that his NTC is 7 teams.
How many teams in Canada?

 

[Americanadian]

I'm not sure McCabe will be re-upped.
McCabe will be 31 his next contract.
McCabe Cap is $4mm, he won't be taking a discount, and it will likely be his last big contract.
So is McCabe worth $6mm * 6 or 7 years?

I'd bet 5Mx4.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd bet 5Mx4.

Maybe.

I remember people under estimating the Edmundson and Lyubushkin deals this year.

He will get a raise, how much is the unknown, and probably depends on competition.
Mind you maybe he re-signs early with the Leafs, and get a nice signing bonus?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Klingberg's injury had absolutely f*** all to do with Benoit earning his spot.

He was sent down after a bad season in 2022-2023 and a bad pre-season. He was only called up to fill in when we had injuries to McCabe and Liljegren, but the permanent roster spot was opened up with Klingberg being shut down a couple games later. Over the season, he earned a spot on the team, but that's not how his journey started out.

he played 3 regular game in 2022 2023 in 3 game who meant absoluly nothing t
just to see if he could become a weapon if needed in playoff. When he make himself a name was during the playoff along side oreilly and acciari.
And tell be outside of Bertuzzi, who was dangerous for knies on left wing after what he showed in playoff???

The 2022-2023 regular sample is small, but he got much better opportunities throughout all of 2022-2023 and 2023-2024, regular season and playoffs.
The argument is not against having Knies in the top-six. The argument is against the idea that Robertson has been treated the same.

Benoit took gio spot not klinberg spot...

Giordano won a spot over him to start the year, and played almost every game he was healthy for. Benoit was only called up due to injuries (not Gio), and only got a permanent spot with the Klingberg injury.

 

[rumman]

Maybe you missed the "learning" part.

Makar appears to have mastered all the tools, although he probably still has areas he wants to improve. My speculation is most players always want to be better ... well maybe not Kessel (Kidding Phil).

However, not to go off on a tangent Liljegren's target isn't to be a better 3rd. pairing defender. He might not get there, but his target should be top 3.

I think Benoit is an absolute steal, and maybe he replaces McCabe when his contract expires. That would be my hope, but maybe he can't. Definitely, eliminates any need for another Edmundson unless there are injuries in the top 4.

There's a reason Liljegren gets PP time, and OT time, and more ES time, and Benoit gets more PK time.

I don’t understand how Lilly can have room to improve, but Benoit has capped out. Makes zero sense to me…….

 

[TMLAM34]

I don’t lament missing out on Zadorov too badly, but Lindholm and Roy were big misses.

Can’t understand Roy’s thinking, if the Leafs and Washington offered similar contracts. Does he honestly think Washington represents the best chance to win?

While I’m good with Tavares this year in the 2C role, I think as soon as next season we are going to have a gaping hole there, and Lindholm would have been an excellent fit, giving us strength down the middle.

As it stands we don’t have a viable option to backfill when Tavares deteriorates ow walks as a UFA ( I say he resigns at a very team friendly contract to finish his career a Leaf).

I absolutely do not buy the whole Nylander or Marner at 2C thing. I’ve never seen the cap any from either. These are not rookies, and you don’t have players almost 10 years into their careers move into new roles, particularly one as demanding and has a steep learning curve like Centre.

We will have a real gap at 2C sooner rather than later and Lindholm would have filled that for years to come.

Oh well….

I can’t really blame Roy for picking Washington. Sure you’d get to play with Matthews, Marner, etc in Toronto but what has Toronto really done more than Washington? Not to mention, Washington made some solid moves to improve this off-season.

Then you have to take into consideration lifestyle, which I’d rather live in Washington than Toronto anyday.

 

[thusk]

He was sent down after a bad season in 2022-2023 and a bad pre-season. He was only called up to fill in when we had injuries to McCabe and Liljegren, but the permanent roster spot was opened up with Klingberg being shut down a couple games later. Over the season, he earned a spot on the team, but that's not how his journey started out.

The 2022-2023 regular sample is small, but he got much better opportunities throughout all of 2022-2023 and 2023-2024, regular season and playoffs.
The argument is not against having Knies in the top-six. The argument is against the idea that Robertson has been treated the same.

Giordano won a spot over him to start the year, and played almost every game he was healthy for. Benoit was only called up due to injuries (not Gio), and only got a permanent spot with the Klingberg injury.

He was sent down after a bad season in 2022-2023 and a bad pre-season. He was only called up to fill in when we had injuries to McCabe and Liljegren, but the permanent roster spot was opened up with Klingberg being shut down a couple games later. Over the season, he earned a spot on the team, but that's not how his journey started out.

The 2022-2023 regular sample is small, but he got much better opportunities throughout all of 2022-2023 and 2023-2024, regular season and playoffs.
The argument is not against having Knies in the top-six. The argument is against the idea that Robertson has been treated the same.

Giordano won a spot over him to start the year, and played almost every game he was healthy for. Benoit was only called up due to injuries (not Gio), and only got a permanent spot with the Klingberg injury.

For what he did, Benoit took ice time of Gio. he played more defensive situation, more time on pk, etc... The guy who benefit the most of klinberg injuries is liljegren and lagesson/timmins... Liljegren took klinberg offensive time and responsabilities and lagesson/timmins find themself a spot in the line up until leafs start to make trade

Knies go on corner, he won 1v1 battle and help the top 6 to keep the puck and get the puck back, something robertson never and will never do. That's why Knies get an opportunity and robertson, because when top 6 played with robertson, they becoming pretty trash.

 

[thusk]

Framer not farmer, but probably translation ...

Anyway, I agree Liljegren has to take the next steps, or he misses and becomes a career 3rd. pairing, who limits what he attempts to do. Off the glass and out, is still a thing.

I'm not sure McCabe will be re-upped.
McCabe will be 31 his next contract.
McCabe Cap is $4mm, he won't be taking a discount, and it will likely be his last big contract.
So is McCabe worth $6mm * 6 or 7 years?

Liljegren if he still don't step up this year, he's probably done in Toronto

for mccabe Matt Roy is a pretty good comparableat 29 sign a 6 year so until (35) 5,75M

i can see something like 5 to 5,25M/ 6 year ( until 37 for Mccabe) or like 4 year at 5,5 to 6

 

[ULF_55]

I don’t understand how Lilly can have room to improve, but Benoit has capped out. Makes zero sense to me…….

Of course Benoit can improve, but go through his entire junior - NHL career.
Is he out of nowhere going to pick up an offensive bent to his game?
What is his historical skill set?
Has he ever exhibited any offensive ability, right back to junior?
At 19 he had 28 points, 5 goals in junior.
Has a career high of 10 points in the NHL.

Benoit is one of Treliving's best transaction in Toronto, no doubt.
I really like his game, but I'm not seeing something that isn't there.

 

[rumman]

Of course Benoit can improve, but go through his entire junior - NHL career.
Is he out of nowhere going to pick up an offensive bent to his game?
What is his historical skill set?
Has he ever exhibited any offensive ability, right back to junior?
At 19 he had 28 points, 5 goals in junior.
Has a career high of 10 points in the NHL.

Benoit is one of Treliving's best transaction in Toronto, no doubt.
I really like his game, but I'm not seeing something that isn't there.

I want D men that can defend first and foremost, any offence is a addrd bonus, Lilly is afraid of his own shadow and will never be a good defensive D man. So hoping he can add offensively is inane, move him to the wing if they won’t trade him, guys a black hole defensively………

 

[ULF_55]

I want D men that can defend first and foremost, any offence is a addrd bonus, Lilly is afraid of his own shadow and will never be a good defensive D man. So hoping he can add offensively is inane, move him to the wing if they won’t trade him, guys a black hole defensively………

Well, we could say Benoit is a black hole offensively and wouldn't be able to pass the puck against 16 year old girls.

 

[rumman]

Well, we could say Benoit is a black hole offensively and wouldn't be able to pass the puck against 16 year old girls.

But that’s not true, he’s there to defend or is that lost on you?

 

[ULF_55]

But that’s not true, he’s there to defend or is that lost on you?

Seems Liljegren's job is lost on you.

Anyway, with comments like "afraid of his own shadow" indicates what he does has no bearing on your opinion, and pointless to discuss at that level.

 

[rumman]

Seems Liljegren's job is lost on you.

Anyway, with comments like "afraid of his own shadow" indicates what he does has no bearing on your opinion, and pointless to discuss at that level.

Roger that…….

 

[Dekes For Days]

For what he did, Benoit took ice time of Gio. he played more defensive situation, more time on pk, etc...

He may have taken on different roles, but he took the roster spot of Klingberg, and he would have been in the AHL if not for the injury.

Knies go on corner, he won 1v1 battle and help the top 6 to keep the puck and get the puck back, something robertson never and will never do. That's why Knies get an opportunity and robertson, because when top 6 played with robertson, they becoming pretty trash.

Robertson does these things too, and he's fit in well in combinations with core players before, in the limited time he's gotten.

 

[IPS]

Seems Liljegren's job is lost on you.

Anyway, with comments like "afraid of his own shadow" indicates what he does has no bearing on your opinion, and pointless to discuss at that level.

His history of being scratched in the playoff unfortunately speaks for itself in a way.