Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Sypher04]

His history of being scratched in the playoff unfortunately speaks for itself in a way.

People keep bringing this up when it’s not particularly relevant. He missed one single game vs Boston. Much like Roberson for game 7, he didn’t really deserve to be taken out of the lineup. Seems like they felt they owed Brodie a chance to get in, realized their mistake and went right back to Liljegren.

Anything that happened in previous years was moreso based on lack of experience than an indictment of Liljegren.

 

[hockeywiz542]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1828500713250451648

Agent Darren Ferris told Lance Lysowski of the Buffalo News that Filip Zadina is nearing a PTO deal, but instead BuffaloSabres will sign with another team. There was also speculation about MapleLeafs, Avalanche, CanadiensMTL. Mainly because the ice was moving.

 

[meefer]

How many chance liljegren And robertson got last 2-3 season to prove themself? Liljegren and robertson got all the chance of the world to prove it, they never been able to take it

Knies got the chance to prove himself and he won his spot and never looked back the 1st time he had it. Benoit and Mcmann both started in the AHL,but when they get their chance, their won their spot and never looked back again.Same with Woll in net... It's how it's working

You can't hold hand of every young player forever, you can do it for a very short period but you can't for 100-200 games or even 30-40( who's around 40% of regular season).

No, you can't hold their hand(s) forever. But, given that Robertson has played 147 games in total since he was drafted, 87 in the show, mostly due to injuries, and this year posted the team's 6th highest P/60, ahead of McMann in 7th place, if he'll sign a reasonable deal, I'd like to keep him. I can appreciate your concerns more with Liljegren, given TL's age and experience, but here too, injuries, total number of games, stretches of very solid play (when Rielly was injured) and a coach who imo didn't 'help' TL's development...I lean towards seeing what happens with him under Berube.

 

[meefer]

Ice time for Robertson.
Home: 9:42, 10:55, 10:36
Boston: 10:38, 7:21, 9:34

View attachment 904070

Just so that you understand I'm not making up the claim: Toronto Maple Leafs @ NHL - 2024 Playoff Stats

 

[thusk]

He may have taken on different roles, but he took the roster spot of Klingberg, and he would have been in the AHL if not for the injury.

Robertson does these things too, and he's fit in well in combinations with core players before, in the limited time he's gotten.

Benoit just took his opportunity when he had it and forced leafs to kept in the line up, that's it.

If exemple you having bertuzzi, knies, mcmann and robertson and Matthews or JT line are better with anyone of bertuzzi, knies or mcmann on their line than robertson, they're no chance at all than robertson still playing in top 6. Robertson is nothing more than a complementary player in a top 6.what you need for a complemebtary player is to do stuff who gonna make their line teammate better.

exemple a matthews marner line, what that line need as complementary player? a shooter who bring nothing more or a guy who would go to the net, win battle around the board and doing all the shit than star player dont want to do every game? ask yourself the question and you will easily get the answer. You can do the same with JT-Nylander and the answer will be exactly the same. Its hot its working, leafs are not build around young player like robertson but around the core 4

No, you can't hold their hand(s) forever. But, given that Robertson has played 147 games in total since he was drafted, 87 in the show, mostly due to injuries, and this year posted the team's 6th highest P/60, ahead of McMann in 7th place, if he'll sign a reasonable deal, I'd like to keep him. I can appreciate your concerns more with Liljegren, given TL's age and experience, but here too, injuries, total number of games, stretches of very solid play (when Rielly was injured) and a coach who imo didn't 'help' TL's development...I lean towards seeing what happens with him under Berube.

pts/ game is one thing but its not every thing. Like i said if robertson get 40 pts but had an impact on only 45 goal, did that make him better than mcmann who had like 35 pts but contribute in 60 exemple by a good forechecking who gave up ab opportunity to core 4 to get the puck back and score later or whatever. Like i said, the problem with robertson is if he dont contribute offensively in score sheet, hes useless but its not the case with a mcmann, knies by exemple.

For liljegren, i want to see him been able to raise his game when the light is on him and i nwver saw this from him... not only play good hockey when the team regroup themself to face an injury to a key player and everyone raising their game to overcome this. Everytime pressure raising and responsabilities raising up on his shoulder, he failed every time. And sorry for me, Keefe did everything possible he could to help liljegren to don't be abusing in the NHL but at the end as a coach, you need to be able to trust your player and not be affraid everytime he step in because his game is so unpredictable

 

[Dekes For Days]

Benoit just took his opportunity when he had it and forced leafs to kept in the line up, that's it.

His opportunity was pre-season, and he was bad and failed. Then he got another opportunity that he didn't earn, because of an injury. He did better in those games, but it was not his play that forced open a permanent roster spot. It was Klingberg's injury a couple games later. Otherwise, he would have been back in the AHL or at best, holding the 7D spot.

If exemple you having bertuzzi, knies, mcmann and robertson and Matthews or JT line are better with anyone of bertuzzi, knies or mcmann on their line than robertson, they're no chance at all than robertson still playing in top 6. Robertson is nothing more than a complementary player in a top 6.what you need for a complemebtary player is to do stuff who gonna make their line teammate better.

They are all complimentary players who do stuff to make their lines better, and the lines aren't better with Bertuzzi, Knies, and McMann slotted over Robertson.
Bertuzzi is actually a good example of somebody getting constant opportunities they didn't earn. He certainly didn't concern himself with defense, he was flubbing pucks and destroying plays for the majority of the year, and his production wasn't anything special, and yet he got opportunity after opportunity to play almost exclusively in the top six.

exemple a matthews marner line, what that line need as complementary player? a shooter who bring nothing more

Robertson brings a lot more than just a shot, but also yeah, Matthews and Marner could absolutely benefit from another shooting threat on the line, and Robertson could absolutely thrive with our best playmaker and not being the only shooting threat on every line he's on. He's also had decent moments on lines featuring Tavares or Nylander, who can also take advantage of his skills.

 

[ULF_55]

His history of being scratched in the playoff unfortunately speaks for itself in a way.

Yeah, he's at a stage now that he should get better with the reps he has behind him.

Keefe took him out for 1 game (April 27th. for the veteran Brodie) and then put him in for the next 3 / rest of the games, removing the veteran Brodie.

Brodie was subsequently signed by Chicago for 2 years at $3.75mm. Leafs re-signed Liljegren 2 years at $3mm.

 

[ULF_55]

Just so that you understand I'm not making up the claim: Toronto Maple Leafs @ NHL - 2024 Playoff Stats

I was just showing those minutes.
Trying to determine if there was any pattern?
Like reduced minutes after a poor showing, or reduced on the road where coach doesn't have last change ...

 

[Americanadian]

An interesting player the Leafs could use is Matt Coronato. In theory him for Robertson 1 for 1 would probably be a fair value trade.

Coronato was Treliving's last 1st round pick with Calgary. He hasn't yet produced at the NHL level but he was a point per game player in the AHL as a 21 year old this season. He is an undersized winger, similar to Robertson but shoots right which the Leafs lack in their pipeline. His write-up in the Athletic reads exactly like what the Leafs could use as a 3RW option once Jarnkrok's contract expires or he is moved.:

"Tier: Middle of the lineup player

Skating: Above NHL average
Puck skills: Above NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: Above NHL average
Shot: High-end

Analysis: Coronato had a great rookie pro season. He was a leader on the Calgary Wranglers in the AHL. He earned 30 games up with the Flames, although his NHL performance was up and down. Coronato’s game is full of energy. He’s a strong skating forward who can skate by defenders. He’s undersized, but Coronato wins a lot of battles and works hard. He can make plays, but Coronato is more of a shooter. He has a natural shooting technique with a lot of snap and can beat pro goalies from range. Coronato is talented and competitive, but he’s not the most dynamic small wing you’ll ever see. I think he’s a middle-six forward who coaches like, but I don’t see major NHL offense in his game."

 

[conFABulator]

An interesting player the Leafs could use is Matt Coronato. In theory him for Robertson 1 for 1 would probably be a fair value trade.

Coronato was Treliving's last 1st round pick with Calgary. He hasn't yet produced at the NHL level but he was a point per game player in the AHL as a 21 year old this season. He is an undersized winger, similar to Robertson but shoots right which the Leafs lack in their pipeline. His write-up in the Athletic reads exactly like what the Leafs could use as a 3RW option once Jarnkrok's contract expires or he is moved.:

"Tier: Middle of the lineup player

Skating: Above NHL average
Puck skills: Above NHL average
Hockey sense: NHL average
Compete: Above NHL average
Shot: High-end

Analysis: Coronato had a great rookie pro season. He was a leader on the Calgary Wranglers in the AHL. He earned 30 games up with the Flames, although his NHL performance was up and down. Coronato’s game is full of energy. He’s a strong skating forward who can skate by defenders. He’s undersized, but Coronato wins a lot of battles and works hard. He can make plays, but Coronato is more of a shooter. He has a natural shooting technique with a lot of snap and can beat pro goalies from range. Coronato is talented and competitive, but he’s not the most dynamic small wing you’ll ever see. I think he’s a middle-six forward who coaches like, but I don’t see major NHL offense in his game."

I would consider this trade, so much so that I wonder if/why Calgary would.

 

[Americanadian]

I would consider this trade, so much so that I wonder if/why Calgary would.

It would largely depend who Calgary thinks will be the better NHLer. Robertson is 1 year older than Coronato and has a NHL season with decent production under his belt.

Looking at their NHL roster they could make a spot for Robertson as 3LW along Kadri and Kuzmenko and move Pospisil to 4C.

 

[ULF_55]

It would largely depend who Calgary thinks will be the better NHLer. Robertson is 1 year older than Coronato and has a NHL season with decent production under his belt.

Looking at their NHL roster they could make a spot for Robertson as 3LW along Kadri and Kuzmenko and move Pospisil to 4C.

View attachment 904436

I'd be hesitant to trade for Robertson, while he isn't under contract.

Unless it is an American team of his liking.

 

[thusk]

His opportunity was pre-season, and he was bad and failed. Then he got another opportunity that he didn't earn, because of an injury. He did better in those games, but it was not his play that forced open a permanent roster spot. It was Klingberg's injury a couple games later. Otherwise, he would have been back in the AHL or at best, holding the 7D spot.

They are all complimentary players who do stuff to make their lines better, and the lines aren't better with Bertuzzi, Knies, and McMann slotted over Robertson.
Bertuzzi is actually a good example of somebody getting constant opportunities they didn't earn. He certainly didn't concern himself with defense, he was flubbing pucks and destroying plays for the majority of the year, and his production wasn't anything special, and yet he got opportunity after opportunity to play almost exclusively in the top six.

Robertson brings a lot more than just a shot, but also yeah, Matthews and Marner could absolutely benefit from another shooting threat on the line, and Robertson could absolutely thrive with our best playmaker and not being the only shooting threat on every line he's on. He's also had decent moments on lines featuring Tavares or Nylander, who can also take advantage of his skills.

The D was already lock before the season was even started

Rielly-Brodie
Mccabe-Klinberg
Gio-Liljegren

The best he could do was to win 7th string. He had an opportunity because of injuries but he kept his spot and won more ice time because of his play.

Robertson every time he goes on corner on 1v1 battle he lost the puck, he can't go to the net, creating screen, get the rebound or trash goal or whatever because again he can't handle physical game. Defensively he bring nothing. When he have full control of the puck he could create a lot but... Without the puck he's probably the worst leafs player. if he's unable to bring back the puck on leafs side, that mean Matthews/ Marmer Nylander /JT need to do everything to get back the puck on leafs side when they are playing with Robertson... Even if Bertuzzi didn't had the best year, at least he was able to win 1v1 battle, doing the hard stuff in front of the net and whatever even if his game with the game had been an issues a part of season.

so explain me how do you want to create thing of you struggling to get back the puck? It's extremely hard to score when your always purchasing the puck. Against weak team, that can work but against good team no and you will become pretty invisible against good team and playoff, like it was the case vs Boston.

 

[Americanadian]

I'd be hesitant to trade for Robertson, while he isn't under contract.

Unless it is an American team of his liking.

I haven’t read anything suggesting his trade request was due to playing in Canada. Everything that I’ve seen reported about him since he was drafted is all he wants is to be a successful NHLer. My understanding is he doesn’t see that opportunity in Toronto.

I’d also assume any trade would come with a contract extension.

 

[ULF_55]

I haven’t read anything suggesting his trade request was due to playing in Canada. Everything that I’ve seen reported about him since he was drafted is all he wants is to be a successful NHLer. My understanding is he doesn’t see that opportunity in Toronto.

I’d also assume any trade would come with a contract extension.

Well, we haven't really read anything that details his issue, other than someone on the developement side might have hurt his feelings.

 

[Americanadian]

Well, we haven't really read anything that details his issue, other than someone on the developement side might have hurt his feelings.

Is there a history of CHL players not wanting to play in Canada?

 

[ULF_55]

Is there a history of CHL players not wanting to play in Canada?

Do you mean Americans who move to Canada to play junior hockey and then want to play at back home?

Haven't studied it, but we do know players like Tkachuk wanted to play in the US after playing for the Knights and Flames.

Seems reasonable if you can chose your destination, it would be in your own country, unless we're talking some ideal country that has other benefits. I worked outside Canada for time in the tropics, but was happy to return home ...

 

[Americanadian]

Do you mean Americans who move to Canada to play junior hockey and then want to play at back home?

Haven't studied it, but we do know players like Tkachuk wanted to play in the US after playing for the Knights and Flames.

Yes. Tkachuk is a very good example. I can’t think of any others though.

 

[ULF_55]

Yes. Tkachuk is a very good example. I can’t think of any others though.

Probably have to look at free agency and see if Canadian teams have to overpay?

 

[Americanadian]

Probably have to look at free agency and see if Canadian teams have to overpay?

That seems very difficult to decipher given all teams overpay in UFA.

 

[rumman]

Yeah, he's at a stage now that he should get better with the reps he has behind him.

Keefe took him out for 1 game (April 27th. for the veteran Brodie) and then put him in for the next 3 / rest of the games, removing the veteran Brodie.

Brodie was subsequently signed by Chicago for 2 years at $3.75mm. Leafs re-signed Liljegren 2 years at $3mm.

Both a total waste of cap space…….

 

[Dekes For Days]

The best he could do was to win 7th string. He had an opportunity because of injuries but he kept his spot and won more ice time because of his play.

He failed at the opportunity he had for 7th D. He didn't have to scrape and claw for another opportunity and was handed a pretty big gift with the Klingberg situation. He wouldn't have a roster spot without it. Yes, Benoit did better with his 2nd opportunity, but Robertson hasn't gotten those same opportunities to maximize his potential. That's the point. He's had to scrape and claw for every limited opportunity through some significant adversity, and even when he excels in the opportunities he's given, he doesn't get anything more, and gets brushed aside for players he outperforms.

Robertson every time he goes on corner on 1v1 battle he lost the puck, he can't go to the net, creating screen, get the rebound or trash goal or whatever because again he can't handle physical game. Defensively he bring nothing. When he have full control of the puck he could create a lot but... Without the puck he's probably the worst leafs player. if he's unable to bring back the puck on leafs side, that mean Matthews/ Marmer Nylander /JT need to do everything to get back the puck on leafs side when they are playing with Robertson... Even if Bertuzzi didn't had the best year, at least he was able to win 1v1 battle, doing the hard stuff in front of the net and whatever even if his game with the game had been an issues a part of season.

Your description of Robertson is pretty inaccurate. He was fine with the puck and in corners and battles this year.
It's true that he isn't that physical, but you don't need to be to be effective. He's not going to win any defensive awards, but that's true of all of the other LWs you named.
He's not as good as the others at some things, but he's better at others. He's capable of being effective in the top-six, and there are better ways to utilize his qualities.

 

[thusk]

He failed at the opportunity he had for 7th D. He didn't have to scrape and claw for another opportunity and was handed a pretty big gift with the Klingberg situation. He wouldn't have a roster spot without it. Yes, Benoit did better with his 2nd opportunity, but Robertson hasn't gotten those same opportunities to maximize his potential. That's the point. He's had to scrape and claw for every limited opportunity through some significant adversity, and even when he excels in the opportunities he's given, he doesn't get anything more, and gets brushed aside for players he outperforms.

Your description of Robertson is pretty inaccurate. He was fine with the puck and in corners and battles this year.
It's true that he isn't that physical, but you don't need to be to be effective. He's not going to win any defensive awards, but that's true of all of the other LWs you named.
He's not as good as the others at some things, but he's better at others. He's capable of being effective in the top-six, and there are better ways to utilize his qualities.

Benoit had an opportunity on 3rd pair most of the year and because his game grow up and been really useful, his ice time raise. It's the same than robertsom who played on 3rd line most of the year.

Like i said, when robertson is with the puck hes pretty good and no doubt hes better than basically everyone outside of core4 + Domi, but when he dont have it...he's pretty trash...on forechecking ( put pressure and forcing mistake), 50/50 battle ( lost over 95% of those battle) or defensive situation ( to create turnover) or Every kind of situation to bring back the puck

What the core 4 need the most is to get the puck on their stick the more/most time you can. More theyvwill get time with the puck and more dangerous theybwill be. Robertson help create thing when you had it but doesn't to increase at all the number of time you get the puck.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Players still available in 2024 NHL free agency and which teams are potential good fits - The Athletic

Max Pacioretty

The 35-year-old forward has had three adrift seasons thanks to two Achilles tendon injuries to the same leg. He was healthy the back half of last season for the Capitals but scored four goals in 47 games: not ideal if you’re known as a scorer. He’s healthy now, though, and has some suitors — the Leafs and Red Wings are reportedly both interested in adding the one-time Canadiens captain.

Best fits: Not sure Toronto is where he belongs, given the Maple Leafs’ need for a bit more two-way consistency in the middle of their forward group. And the Wings can’t add any more over-30 guys, can they? Pacioretty has to prove he can put the puck in the net still, so teams like the Hawks, the Hockey Club, or the Flames, where he could play a more prominent scoring role, might be the smarter play. That could also turn into a deadline move to a contender if he has a solid season.

 

[TMLAM34]

I wonder if there could be a deal around Robertson for Saad? Saad fits in well in a Berube system and can slot onto the third line with potentially Holmberg and Nylander. St. Louis would need to retain 50% of Saad’s contract. I think they would listen to an offer around that, we’d probably need to add a little something with Robertson.

Forward group would be pretty deep with some good internal competition with Grebenkin, Cowan and Minten knocking on the door.

Top nine potentially -

Knies - Matthews - Domi
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Saad - Holmberg - Nylander