Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[Americanadian]

There's only 1 team in the league I can see that can use Robertson in a top 6 scoring role and that's Carolina. They have all of their 2nds moving forward which would probably be enough to get the deal done.

If it's a prospect in return I wouldn't be as sold on a deal. The top end of their prospect pool is filled with 2024 draftees who I doubt they'd move and Nikishin who they definitely won't move. Morrow has a few red flags that may keep him out of the NHL.

The prospect that intrigues me the most that could be available from their system is Felix Unger-Sorum. I'd be underwhelmed if the Leafs brought him in for Robertson 1-for-1 but I don't see how the Leafs have any leverage at this point. They might as well get the best piece they can get.

 

[Sypher04]

Preseason ends with two games vs Detroit.
Do we think the away game or the home game is the one more likely to get a legit lineup? I’m going to buy tickets

Edit: not where I meant to post this, but it’s fine I think lol

 

[Americanadian]

Preseason ends with two games vs Detroit.
Do we think the away game or the home game is the one more likely to get a legit lineup? I’m going to buy tickets

Edit: not where I meant to post this, but it’s fine I think lol

It's always the home game. They always send the last cuts to Detroit.

 

[WTFMAN99]

There's only 1 team in the league I can see that can use Robertson in a top 6 scoring role and that's Carolina. They have all of their 2nds moving forward which would probably be enough to get the deal done.

If it's a prospect in return I wouldn't be as sold on a deal. The top end of their prospect pool is filled with 2024 draftees who I doubt they'd move and Nikishin who they definitely won't move. Morrow has a few red flags that may keep him out of the NHL.

The prospect that intrigues me the most that could be available from their system is Felix Unger-Sorum. I'd be underwhelmed if the Leafs brought him in for Robertson 1-for-1 but I don't see how the Leafs have any leverage at this point. They might as well get the best piece they can get.

2nd from Carolina
Jonatan Berggren
Nils Hoglander

Seem like possible deals but I probably opt for the 2nd if it was offered.

 

[Americanadian]

2nd from Carolina
Jonatan Berggren
Nils Hoglander

Seem like possible deals but I probably opt for the 2nd if it was offered.

Berggren would make some sense. I'd be reluctant to go for an older, unproven asset.

I'm not sure why Vancouver makes that trade.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Berggren would make some sense. I'd be reluctant to go for an older, unproven asset.

I'm not sure why Vancouver makes that trade.

Hoglander played a lot with Pettersson this year, likely got a bit inflated.

36 pts in 80GP for Hoglander

Robertson had 27 in 56GP, no PP time so 39.53 rounded for 40 pts 82GP pace

Hoglander, Berggren and Robertson all seem within reasonable production of one another.

 

[Americanadian]

I like Holmberg and I currently see him as the Leafs 3C (although not a great option there). I could see Carolina really valuing him. His underlying numbers have been very strong at the NHL level which Carolina values as seen by every acquisition they make. Holmberg also has a history of playing alongside Jack Drury when they won the SHL title together in 2021 as 1/2 leading scorers for Vaxjo. Holmberg also comes with a cheap cap hit for this year (800k) which increases his value. Carolina needs LW depth which he provides. If the Leafs start Minten in the NHL or use Domi as 3C or acquire a C and don't plan on using him I'd bet Carolina offers a pick (3rd) for him prior to the season similar to Lafferty last year.

 

[tmlfan98]

I like Holmberg and I currently see him as the Leafs 3C (although not a great option there). I could see Carolina really valuing him. His underlying numbers have been very strong at the NHL level which Carolina values as seen by every acquisition they make. Holmberg also has a history of playing alongside Jack Drury when they won the SHL title together in 2021 as 1/2 leading scorers for Vaxjo. Holmberg also comes with a cheap cap hit for this year (800k) which increases his value. Carolina needs LW depth which he provides. If the Leafs start Minten in the NHL or use Domi as 3C or acquire a C and don't plan on using him I'd bet Carolina offers a pick (3rd) for him prior to the season similar to Lafferty last year.

If you think Carolina is an organization that would value Holmberg, the Leafs should just keep Holmberg because Tulsky wins every trade he makes.

 

[Americanadian]

If you think Carolina is an organization that would value Holmberg, the Leafs should just keep Holmberg because Tulsky wins every trade he makes.

This is a situation where I believe the player fits better with one organization than they do with the other. Toronto appears to be going with a sheltered scoring 3rd line with one of Domi or Nylander anchoring that line. Carolina appears to be going for a more defense oriented bottom 6 with Drury and Staal anchoring their own lines. If Holmberg isn't on the 3rd line in Toronto he probably doesn't get regular minutes.

 

[WTFMAN99]

If you think Carolina is an organization that would value Holmberg, the Leafs should just keep Holmberg because Tulsky wins every trade he makes.

He traded Coghlan for future considerations

And I think he got a 3rd for the rights to Guentzel?

After that its pick trades, UFA signings etc and yea...I wouldn't really be worried about Tulsky.

 

[ULF_55]

This is a situation where I believe the player fits better with one organization than they do with the oth

er. Toronto appears to be going with a sheltered scoring 3rd line with one of Domi or Nylander anchoring that line. Carolina appears to be going for a more defense oriented bottom 6 with Drury and Staal anchoring their own lines. If Holmberg isn't on the 3rd line in Toronto he probably doesn't get regular minutes.

I am not aware Berube has listed any line combinations.

For all we know Berube could do:
Nylander-Matthews-marner

I think fans would like to see changes from the tired lazy combinations they have used over and over again.

Not sure they are going to have a player pulling in $10mm+ getting 3rd line minutes.

 

[Sypher04]

I am not aware Berube has listed any line combinations.

For all we know Berube could do:
Nylander-Matthews-marner

I think fans would like to see changes from the tired lazy combinations they have used over and over again.

Not sure they are going to have a player pulling in $10mm+ getting 3rd line minutes.

For what it’s worth, being on a 2B line doesn’t necessarily mean lower minutes.

 

[Americanadian]

I am not aware Berube has listed any line combinations.

For all we know Berube could do:
Nylander-Matthews-marner

I think fans would like to see changes from the tired lazy combinations they have used over and over again.

Not sure they are going to have a player pulling in $10mm+ getting 3rd line minutes.

Running out a line of Nylander-Matthews-Marner would quite literally be the laziest coaching decision possible.

Everything we've seen from STL is Berube likes to spread talent and roll 4 lines. Just because Nylander is listed as 3RW doesn't mean he gets 14 minutes/game. Nylander has anchored a line without Tavares and Matthews many times before but he still gets his minutes.

Domi very clearly works alongside Matthews and he allows them to run a deeper lineup if he's 1RW. Tavares-Nylander is a lazy combination that's been used over and over again - as you cited. That would leave Nylander to run his own line, which he should be able to do at 11.5M.

 

[ULF_55]

Running out a line of Nylander-Matthews-Marner would quite literally be the laziest coaching decision possible.

Everything we've seen from STL is Berube likes to spread talent and roll 4 lines. Just because Nylander is listed as 3RW doesn't mean he gets 14 minutes/game. Nylander has anchored a line without Tavares and Matthews many times before but he still gets his minutes.

Domi very clearly works alongside Matthews and he allows them to run a deeper lineup if he's 1RW. Tavares-Nylander is a lazy combination that's been used over and over again - as you cited. That would leave Nylander to run his own line, which he should be able to do at 11.5M.

Yeah, Nylander probably takes the 2nd. line, and marner will be back with Matthews.

Tavares the 3rd. line center.

 

[Gaberd2608]

I am not aware Berube has listed any line combinations.

For all we know Berube could do:
Nylander-Matthews-marner

I think fans would like to see changes from the tired lazy combinations they have used over and over again.

Not sure they are going to have a player pulling in $10mm+ getting 3rd line minutes.

Outside of a PP or last 2 mins of a game I would be surprised seeing this for long stretches. As we saw in the playoffs, when these guys are not on their games, we dont typically win. I think it would be risky as the other team just needs to focus on shutting down one line.

I dont think we give that much up by splitting them over 2 lines.

Domi. Matthews. Marner
Knies. Tavares. Nylander
Mcmann. Xxxxx. Jarnkrok
Dewar. Kampf. Xxxx

Xxxx = Holmberg, Reaves, Cowan, Minten, etc

Rielly. Tanev
OEL. McCabe
Benoit. Lilly

Woll/Stolarz

 

[Sypher04]

Outside of a PP or last 2 mins of a game I would be surprised seeing this for long stretches. As we saw in the playoffs, when these guys are not on their games, we dont typically win. I think it would be risky as the other team just needs to focus on shutting down one line.

I dont think we give that much up by splitting them over 2 lines.

Domi. Matthews. Marner
Knies. Tavares. Nylander
Mcmann. Xxxxx. Jarnkrok
Dewar. Kampf. Xxxx

Xxxx = Holmberg, Reaves, Cowan, Minten, etc

Rielly. Tanev
OEL. McCabe
Benoit. Lilly

Woll/Stolarz

Please no.

Matthew’s just doesn’t need Marner on his wing. Domi should go there imo
Let Marner carry another line.
I want to see us with 3 lines of capable play drivers.

 

[Americanadian]

Outside of a PP or last 2 mins of a game I would be surprised seeing this for long stretches. As we saw in the playoffs, when these guys are not on their games, we dont typically win. I think it would be risky as the other team just needs to focus on shutting down one line.

I dont think we give that much up by splitting them over 2 lines.

Domi. Matthews. Marner
Knies. Tavares. Nylander
Mcmann. Xxxxx. Jarnkrok
Dewar. Kampf. Xxxx

Xxxx = Holmberg, Reaves, Cowan, Minten, etc

Rielly. Tanev
OEL. McCabe
Benoit. Lilly

Woll/Stolarz

What is the point of that bottom 6? None of those 4 players create offense on their own. All 4 are good defensively but they'll probably get outscored because no one is creating offense.

McMann should be stapled to Tavares, Dewar-Kampf-Jarnkrok should be a shutdown line.

 

[Gaberd2608]

Please no.

Matthew’s just doesn’t need Marner on his wing. Domi should go there imo
Let Marner carry another line.
I want to see us with 3 lines of capable play drivers.

I have Domi on LW and Marner on RW. My reasoning is because I think Knies will be more compatible with Tavares and Nylander will be able to carry that line.

As seen in the playoffs, when Nyander gets hot, he can take over a game or two. Matthews is the same, even Tavares can. Imo Marner cannot/has not because his focus is on playmaking, not scoring. Marner can make the most insane play but of the receipiant of the pass cannot put it in it means nothing. Tavares, Nylander, and Matthews can make just as nice plays but have the ability to snipe.

 

[Americanadian]

Potential swap with Montreal: Newhook and Barron for Liljegren and Robertson. Montreal gets a downgrade at 2LW but an upgrade at RD.

Liljegren is probably overqualified and overpaid to be playing 3RD in Toronto. Robertson obviously doesn't want to play for the Leafs. Barron had decent underlying numbers in 48 NHL games last year. He's tall and can skate which is a Treliving staple. Montreal has better RD coming up in Mailloux and Reinbacher. Liljegren is probably a better bet to play up the lineup until Reinbacher and Mailloux become full time contributors.

Assuming Robertson gets paid 1.5M this would save the Leafs ~500k on the cap while getting them a young C.

A potential lineup would be:

Knies-Matthews-Domi
McMann-Tavares-Nylander
X-Newhook-Nylander
Dewar-Kampf-Jarnkrok
Holmberg-Reaves

Rielly-Tanev
OEL-McCabe
Benoit-Barron

 

[Stephen]

I'm not sure what you're measuring there though.

Benoit's game is so limited, more or less does one thing.

Difference between a master carpenter and a framer is huge.

How much skill for a framer to become proficient compared to a master carpenter?

Benoit is a framer.
Liljegren is learning to be a master carpenter.

I think Liljegren has Rasmus Andersson type upside without the personality. All the tools are there without the snarl. But I also see him possibly fizzling out a la Travis Dermott, who also has a good skillset but it’s just flat as a player and unable to build on anything.

The analogy might be more like Liljegren isn’t built for the grunt work but might not have the mentality and craft to be a master carpenter either. The work is sloppy.

 

[Americanadian]

As seen in the playoffs, when Nyander gets hot, he can take over a game or two. Matthews is the same, even Tavares can. Imo Marner cannot/has not because his focus is on playmaking, not scoring. Marner can make the most insane play but of the receipiant of the pass cannot put it in it means nothing. Tavares, Nylander, and Matthews can make just as nice plays but have the ability to snipe.

Over the last 3 seasons Tavares-Nylander have been outscored 92 to 78 while playing together at 5v5 (46% GF). Tavares' lines have outscored their opponents 80 to 53 (60%) when he's not playing with Nylander over that same time. Nylander's lines have outscored their opponents 97 to 72 (57%) when he's not paired with Tavares'.

Why would the Leafs spend 22.5M on 2/3 of a line that doesn't win their minutes when both players win their minutes decisively when they're apart?

 

[tmlfan98]

He traded Coghlan for future considerations

And I think he got a 3rd for the rights to Guentzel?

After that its pick trades, UFA signings etc and yea...I wouldn't really be worried about Tulsky.

LOL at the 2 worst examples you could come up with being trading AHL dman Coghlan for future considerations (who was originally acquired along with Pacioretty for future considerations), and the UFA rights to Guentzel for a 3rd instead of letting him walk for nothing.

 

[rumman]

I am not aware Berube has listed any line combinations.

For all we know Berube could do:
Nylander-Matthews-marner

I think fans would like to see changes from the tired lazy combinations they have used over and over again.

Not sure they are going to have a player pulling in $10mm+ getting 3rd line minutes.

Personally I feel for Berube, Money aside I don’t think he actually knows what he’s gotten himself into, and if history repeats itself he won’t really know the true character of this group until the playoffs, not much can be done by then.

Off topic, but are you allowed to shower out there in Cowtown yet or is the communist mayor still rationing your water?

 

[Voodoo Child]

I think Liljegren has Rasmus Andersson type upside without the personality. All the tools are there without the snarl. But I also see him possibly fizzling out a la Travis Dermott, who also has a good skillset but it’s just flat as a player and unable to build on anything.

The analogy might be more like Liljegren isn’t built for the grunt work but might not have the mentality and craft to be a master carpenter either. The work is sloppy.

There’s definitely a big mental component that comes with Liljegren, who knows what it could be, but his tools make him better than Dermott ever was.

I don’t think he should be run out of town or thrown in every proposal as a sweetener, but if he can’t put it together you move him at the 25-26 deadline before he becomes a UFA and he’s up over 300GP. He can put up 30+ points, handle the 2PP and 2PK units, become a bit of a prick and not get injured!, in other words become a 3-4D, and he should do it today, because there’s been enough hand sitting over him from the management.

Edit: and I’m all for Matthews-Nylander and Mitch-JT, not to screw Mitch, fun side effect but because Nylander-JT is not very good and JT needs Marner to do a lot of the two way work.

 

[rumman]

There’s definitely a big mental component that comes with Liljegren, who knows what it could be, but his tools make him better than Dermott ever was.

I don’t think he should be run out of town or thrown in every proposal as a sweetener, but if he can’t put it together you move him at the 25-26 deadline before he becomes a UFA and he’s up over 300GP. He can put up 30+ points, handle the 2PP and 2PK units, become a bit of a prick and not get injured!, in other words become a 3-4D, and he should do it today, because there’s been enough hand sitting over him from the management.

Sadly he’ll never amount to anything, not here anyways. Wait until Berube sees how butter soft he is, I don’t see him excelling when the coach despises the way he plays………