Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[WTFMAN99]

It's true!

I couldn't think of a worse fit for Jarnkrok, they have quite a few forwards.

 

[JEI]

I would have moved Jarnkrok prior to the UFA period but I'd keep him now.

 

[Sypher04]

Kubalik, Pearson, Sprong and Blais

Pearson and Blais with Dewar make a nice 4th line

Kubalik Holmberg Sprong gives some secondary scoring on a 3rd line

Tanner Pearson? He’s a UFA?

 

[LiseL]

That explains his not making contact, but it doesn't explain his low IQ (questionable decisions, passes to opponents) and continuously triying to defend with only one hand on his stick which led to numerous turnovers. He did have to play a lot on his off-side in Ottawa, something he won't have to do in Washington, so he could improve a lot over there. I wish him well but he wasn't a good fit here in Ottawa. But you're right, he'll make the extra effort in the last year of his contract and there will be GMs who will give him boatloads of money even though he has been inconsistent throughout most of his career.

Realistically, he's likely trying to stay healthy and have a big season ahead of free agency.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1810409814117527706

That is some dude on the internet.

 

[LaPlante94]

If he would go there. They would absolutely be the best fit.

Johnny hockey/monahan
Fantilli/marner

Tons of prospects.

It would work

More likely I would say Vegas. They have terrible wingers

Carolina I could totally see a necas for Marner at 775k deal.

But Seattle still has the best opening in my mind. All the peices we need and a legit shot to be in the playoffs.

Would he sit in Vancouver?

Of those 4 teams you listed these would be the players I'd like personally.

Vegas- I honestly do not know. They don't have any cap atm, I'm not too familiar with their prospects and they don't have a 1st round pick next year. I think players wise Karlsson and Roy are the 2 main ones I feel like people would say but with no 1st round picks the next 2 years I just don't see a trade working out there that makes sense for us.

Carolina- Necas, Nikishin(if he plans on coming over here) and their 1st round pick.

Seattle- Bjorkstrand, Wright/Rehkopf or both and their 1st round pick

Vancouver- Another tough one because they are so close to the cap. Boeser and Garland make the cap close since I don't think they'd trade Miller. Raty is the only prospect I really know since I wanted us to draft him. Willander but idk if they'd want to move him. They also go their 1st round pick.

So yeah, based off those teams I'd say Carolina and Seattle would be best for us trade wise and Columbus as well if he'd be ok with that. LA could be another good one since they do got cap space and got some things we need. Danault could be a very good 3C for us. Clarke is an obvious fit for us. We could grant Robertson his wish and involve him as well and get much more like their 1st round pick, Akil Thomas, Kaliev, Pinelli and etc. Would be fun and I think a good change overall imo.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Tanner Pearson? He’s a UFA?

Yep

 

[LiseL]

A quick way would be to compare the top tax rate for each province/state to find the lowest for those that have a state/provincial tax. Then charge that percentage as a cap tax for no tax states. It is true that the highest U.S. federal tax rate is > that the Cdn federal highest rate but that's why you use the lowest state/provincial rate.

For e.g, if the lowest state tax rate is 5%, then charge a 5% cap tax to the no state tax teams. So if the cap is at $100 million, their cap space would be $95 million. Yes, it will add some difficulty to making trades between tax/no tax jurisdictions, but if a no state tax team trades with a tax team, they'll have to either get money retained to make the trade or keep some cap space available for these types of transactions. The southern teams will still have an advantage due to weather and less media coverage, but it would make it more equitable than it currently is when it comes to money.

What about a system in which cap hits are calculated as to what they’d be after taxes? So for instance, if the cap were like $85 million, a team could potentially spend over the cap in gross dollars but once taxes are involved, come in as cap compliant. Maybe I’m not explaining it as I’m meaning it, perhaps it’s a dumb idea. I’d love to hear some thoughts on it in any case, for or against

 

[LiseL]

Capfriendly has Toronto listed as the highest income tax rate in the league. Does this mean you expect Toronto to pay more for every single player than they should be paid to play for any other team?

Montreal would be the highest: provincial tax rate for incomes > $125K is 25.75%, Ontario is 13.16% for incomes > $220K. Granted, Quebecers receive a federal tax abatement which is worth about 3% lowering the difference from 12.49% to 9.49%, but it's still a hefty difference. I do a lot of income taxes for people in Ontario (Ottawa) and Quebec (Gatineau) so very familiar with their tax brackets.

 

[WillNy29]

Yes and no, bc people with work visa will have bank account in Canada even if they work for 3 months. While owning a home indicates having roots.

I do think pro athletes do have a different set of regulations from CRA and the government than an average person. As they will look at their cases a bit different. For example, if a Canadian company want to hire a foreigner to come work in Canada, ko matter how special and unique that job is, need to apply for work visa….but that’s not really the case for the Jays or NHL teams.

no the CRA can still deem you a resident if they so please based on a combination of primary factors and secondary factors and a bank account is one of them. I'll double check my tax textbook but this is one of the first things I learned.

Regardless though entertainers and athletes have different provisions in the tax act to take certain types of credits anyways. People who host concerts are earning salary in Canada and have their own version of the jock tax. It's all covered in the cross border tax treaty (that shit was a miserable course in and of itself when i attempted the CICA indepts lol).

Taxation would be an issue if millionaires didn't find ways to avoid it since the dawn of capitalism versus communism lol

A quick way would be to compare the top tax rate for each province/state to find the lowest for those that have a state/provincial tax. Then charge that percentage as a cap tax for no tax states. It is true that the highest U.S. federal tax rate is > that the Cdn federal highest rate but that's why you use the lowest state/provincial rate.

For e.g, if the lowest state tax rate is 5%, then charge a 5% cap tax to the no state tax teams. So if the cap is at $100 million, their cap space would be $95 million. Yes, it will add some difficulty to making trades between tax/no tax jurisdictions, but if a no state tax team trades with a tax team, they'll have to either get money retained to make the trade or keep some cap space available for these types of transactions. The southern teams will still have an advantage due to weather and less media coverage, but it would make it more equitable than it currently is when it comes to money.

this wouldnt work. because taxes work on a ladder basis creating a marginal tax rate. the entire premise is flawed. We should tax sales tax, foreign exchange factor, property tax, retirement shelter vehicles and all into the equation then.

 

[WillNy29]

Yes. And those “primary and secondary factors” are referred to as greater financial ties in articles.

Everyone says it’s so much more complex.
But if you look at stars signing jn high tax markets across Canada and the us.

You are going to see all the salaries group between 13.5-14.5

And the low tax between 11.25-12.25

That’s across Multiple teams gms stages of winning climate etc

you know that the US and Canada have a different opinion on residency versus citizenship on taxation right? For years NYR players lived in conneticut to avoid taxes, if your theory was true then what would their reasoning be to live in conneticut, play in NYC and still command exorbitant salaries?

Sojourning rules apply as well if players train in Canada all offseason and then are here for 183 days theyre considered a resident for tax purposes. If player x playing for the Kings was in Canada for 183 days of games and training and offseason he would be considered a resident as well. Suffice to say this is not some simple apply the marginal tax rate and thats why we're paying more scenario

Capfriendly has Toronto listed as the highest income tax rate in the league. Does this mean you expect Toronto to pay more for every single player than they should be paid to play for any other team?

Cap friendly is wrong. California and NY have higher rates.

Hell NY has 3 layers of income tax down to the city level.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the insight.

no worries! I haven't been in tax in a while but have pretty decent cursory knowledge of it and it grates my gears when opportunists get our fanbase up in arms over something thats trivial and allows the fanbase to let idiots off the hook up top.

 

[Stephen]

Still rooting for a Nylander Brothers reunion in Toronto this fall. The guy is still young enough to be a reclamation and has some offensive skills you can get cheap. He played in Mississauga so has lived in Toronto.

 

[Gabriel426]

Still rooting for a Nylander Brothers reunion in Toronto this fall. The guy is still young enough to be a reclamation and has some offensive skills you can get cheap. He played in Mississauga so has lived in Toronto.

Think it will happen after they trade Nicky Robbie

 

[Visnovsky]

Before Blake gets fired, just make a compelling case of Marner for Clarke+Byfield.

 

[Legion34]

you know that the US and Canada have a different opinion on residency versus citizenship on taxation right? For years NYR players lived in conneticut to avoid taxes, if your theory was true then what would their reasoning be to live in conneticut, play in NYC and still command exorbitant salaries?

Sojourning rules apply as well if players train in Canada all offseason and then are here for 183 days theyre considered a resident for tax purposes. If player x playing for the Kings was in Canada for 183 days of games and training and offseason he would be considered a resident as well. Suffice to say this is not some simple apply the marginal tax rate and thats why we're paying more scenario


Cap friendly is wrong. California and NY have higher rates.

Hell NY has 3 layers of income tax down to the city level.


no worries! I haven't been in tax in a while but have pretty decent cursory knowledge of it and it grates my gears when opportunists get our fanbase up in arms over something thats trivial and allows the fanbase to let idiots off the hook up top.

1.) I am more famila

you know that the US and Canada have a different opinion on residency versus citizenship on taxation right? For years NYR players lived in conneticut to avoid taxes, if your theory was true then what would their reasoning be to live in conneticut, play in NYC and still command exorbitant salaries?

Sojourning rules apply as well if players train in Canada all offseason and then are here for 183 days theyre considered a resident for tax purposes. If player x playing for the Kings was in Canada for 183 days of games and training and offseason he would be considered a resident as well. Suffice to say this is not some simple apply the marginal tax rate and thats why we're paying more scenario


Cap friendly is wrong. California and NY have higher rates.

Hell NY has 3 layers of income tax down to the city level.


no worries! I haven't been in tax in a while but have pretty decent cursory knowledge of it and it grates my gears when opportunists get our fanbase up in arms over something thats trivial and allows the fanbase to let idiots off the hook up top.

Ok I was answering questions repeatedly and this topic has been a long standing issue I have done tons of research on over the years. The Toronto taxes were from older articles. I know that LA and NY now have higher taxes. We can

Of those 4 teams you listed these would be the players I'd like personally.

Vegas- I honestly do not know. They don't have any cap atm, I'm not too familiar with their prospects and they don't have a 1st round pick next year. I think players wise Karlsson and Roy are the 2 main ones I feel like people would say but with no 1st round picks the next 2 years I just don't see a trade working out there that makes sense for us.

Carolina- Necas, Nikishin(if he plans on coming over here) and their 1st round pick.

Seattle- Bjorkstrand, Wright/Rehkopf or both and their 1st round pick

Vancouver- Another tough one because they are so close to the cap. Boeser and Garland make the cap close since I don't think they'd trade Miller. Raty is the only prospect I really know since I wanted us to draft him. Willander but idk if they'd want to move him. They also go their 1st round pick.

So yeah, based off those teams I'd say Carolina and Seattle would be best for us trade wise and Columbus as well if he'd be ok with that. LA could be another good one since they do got cap space and got some things we need. Danault could be a very good 3C for us. Clarke is an obvious fit for us. We could grant Robertson his wish and involve him as well and get much more like their 1st round pick, Akil Thomas, Kaliev, Pinelli and etc. Would be fun and I think a good change overall imo.

1.) To me. Vegas is the most likely. But has the least things we would want.
Before the draft. Karlson. Theodore/hague 1st may have worked. Now I don’t know?

They need a rw. Are deep at C. They probably won’t sign Theodore.

Unless they would want to do a Petro plus? Deal or we like their pick Connelly/edstrom I don’t think I would like their deal.

I don’t see it.

Petro and a prospect for Marner? Has he fallen off?
We got oel so we don’t need 3 ppqbs
I don’t know.

2.) I personally like McCann/bjorkstrand plus wright. That’s my favourite. Seattle has a million scoring prospects. Need franchise level talent.

 

[Legion34]

you know that the US and Canada have a different opinion on residency versus citizenship on taxation right? For years NYR players lived in conneticut to avoid taxes, if your theory was true then what would their reasoning be to live in conneticut, play in NYC and still command exorbitant salaries?

Sojourning rules apply as well if players train in Canada all offseason and then are here for 183 days theyre considered a resident for tax purposes. If player x playing for the Kings was in Canada for 183 days of games and training and offseason he would be considered a resident as well. Suffice to say this is not some simple apply the marginal tax rate and thats why we're paying more scenario


Cap friendly is wrong. California and NY have higher rates.

Hell NY has 3 layers of income tax down to the city level.


no worries! I haven't been in tax in a while but have pretty decent cursory knowledge of it and it grates my gears when opportunists get our fanbase up in arms over something thats trivial and allows the fanbase to let idiots off the hook up top.

1.) I am more famila

you know that the US and Canada have a different opinion on residency versus citizenship on taxation right? For years NYR players lived in conneticut to avoid taxes, if your theory was true then what would their reasoning be to live in conneticut, play in NYC and still command exorbitant salaries?

Sojourning rules apply as well if players train in Canada all offseason and then are here for 183 days theyre considered a resident for tax purposes. If player x playing for the Kings was in Canada for 183 days of games and training and offseason he would be considered a resident as well. Suffice to say this is not some simple apply the marginal tax rate and thats why we're paying more scenario


Cap friendly is wrong. California and NY have higher rates.

Hell NY has 3 layers of income tax down to the city level.


no worries! I haven't been in tax in a while but have pretty decent cursory knowledge of it and it grates my gears when opportunists get our fanbase up in arms over something thats trivial and allows the fanbase to let idiots off the hook up top.

Ok I was answering questions repeatedly and this topic has been a long standing issue I have done tons of research on over the years. The Toronto taxes were from older articles. I know that LA and NY now have higher taxes.

Instead of getting into the nuance here which we can do later if I have time.

NHL agents gms coaches players accountants and media all (save Walsh who uses RCAs which are a joke for a millionaire. I have them and. I am not a millionaire).
All say that they have favourable tax situations in southern markets which lead to players taking less.

And they do.

High tax markets in the us and Canada sign their stars for 13.5-15%: doughty. Kopitar. Karlson. Thornton. Panarin. Price. Tavares. Matthews. Petterson. Kane. Toews. Perry.

That’s standard

No state tax markers have NEVER signed a single star at over 13% of the cap. One got 13% (Benn) the rest are 11-12.25: kuch. Stamkos. Point. Vasy. Benn. Seguin. Barkov. Tkachuk. Reinhart. Josi. Saros.

If there is no difference. Seems like a heck of a coincidence.

High tax markets in the south that were competitive and champions (LA, Anaheim, SJ) got no cheap deals. Rich prestigious markets (toronto/montreal/NYR/chicago) got no cheap deals.

All of the players in no state tax markets are just selfless or they all have incredible hard nosed GMs. Who were never that before they got there….. Stevie Y got stamkos on 8.5 in Tampa. And just paid Justin holl 3.4.

It’s pretty suspicious

 

[Americanadian]

No state tax markers have NEVER signed a single star at over 13% of the cap. One got 13% (Benn) the rest are 11-12.25: kuch. Stamkos. Point. Vasy. Benn. Seguin. Barkov. Tkachuk. Reinhart. Josi. Saros.

All of the players in no state tax markets are just selfless or they all have incredible hard nosed GMs. Who were never that before they got there….. Stevie Y got stamkos on 8.5 in Tampa. And just paid Justin holl 3.4.

It’s pretty suspicious

Stamkos set the precedent in Tampa for Kuch, Vasy and Point to follow. Not too complicated. Somehow those players found a way to survive on 9.5M a year and they have been rewarded with 2 cups. Of note: Kucherov had scored 100 points once when he signed his contract in 2018. Point had one season above a point per game pace when he signed in 2021. Vasy was the 3rd highest paid goalie in the league (still is) when he signed in 2019 after a historic sweep in the 1st round.

Barkov was fairly paid relative to what he had accomplished in his career when he signed in 2021. Tkachuk followed the internal salary structure and came in behind Barkov, Reinhart did the same and came in behind Tkachuk. They somehow decided they could survive with 76M and 69M.

Benn was the 4th highest paid player in the league when he signed. Arguably an overpay. Seguin was in the top 10 highest paid in the league when he signed which again is arguably an overpay.

Josi signed as a one-time 60 point defenseman for 9M. Again - arguably an overpay at the time. He has since won a norris. Saros was seen as an overpay almost immediately given he starts his next contract at 30. No one wanted to sign that contract on this board.

 

[ER89]

Apparently CJ said that it's more likely that Marner walks next year. If that's the case wtf is this front office doing by not putting pressure.

 

[JEI]

Apparently CJ said that it's more likely that Marner walks next year. If that's the case wtf is this front office doing by not putting pressure.

I don't think the Leafs can actually put pressure on him in a way that is going to be helpful. That's the problem. Do you have an example of what putting the pressure would look like? And how would that reflect to other players throughout the league?

 

[Magic Man]

Apparently CJ said that it's more likely that Marner walks next year. If that's the case wtf is this front office doing by not putting pressure.

That's not really an option though. You can't let a hall of fame player walk for nothing in his prime.

The answer to the problem has to be different than that or the men in charge should be let go shortly after.

 

[Americanadian]

Apparently CJ said that it's more likely that Marner walks next year. If that's the case wtf is this front office doing by not putting pressure.

I just listened to his podcast that was posted 18 hours ago. He does 4 minutes on Marner. He never said this.

 

[Legion34]

Stamkos set the precedent in Tampa for Kuch, Vasy and Point to follow. Not too complicated. Somehow those players found a way to survive on 9.5M a year and they have been rewarded with 2 cups. Of note: Kucherov had scored 100 points once when he signed his contract in 2018. Point had one season above a point per game pace when he signed in 2021. Vasy was the 3rd highest paid goalie in the league (still is) when he signed in 2019 after a historic sweep in the 1st round.

Barkov was fairly paid relative to what he had accomplished in his career when he signed in 2021. Tkachuk followed the internal salary structure and came in behind Barkov, Reinhart did the same and came in behind Tkachuk. They somehow decided they could survive with 76M and 69M.

Benn was the 4th highest paid player in the league when he signed. Arguably an overpay. Seguin was in the top 10 highest paid in the league when he signed which again is arguably an overpay.

Josi signed as a one-time 60 point defenseman for 9M. Again - arguably an overpay at the time. He has since won a norris. Saros was seen as an overpay almost immediately given he starts his next contract at 30. No one wanted to sign that contract on this board.

One. Fan opinions are ridiculous and uniformed and have zero bearing on the market. There is no evidence ever that those players were “overpaid”. Benn won the art Ross and signed for 13% of the cap. Igor is openly asking for 14%

Cap percentage matters. Not a single player in any no state tax team ever has signed for over 13%. That would be a huge bargain

The idea that players set “internal caps” that affect their families futures and all the super loyal nice people end up in no state tax markets is silly

 

[Dreakmur]

That's not really an option though. You can't let a hall of fame player walk for nothing in his prime.

The answer to the problem has to be different than that or the men in charge should be let go shortly after.

If he won’t accept a trade, letting him walk is the best option. He cannot be resigned, even at what he thinks is a discount.

 

[SprDaVE]

That's not really an option though. You can't let a hall of fame player walk for nothing in his prime.

The answer to the problem has to be different than that or the men in charge should be let go shortly after.

It's such a complicated issue that it will be hard to come out on top and I have zero confidence in Treliving to make a good call here. Marner walking is by far the worse option to me as well. It's such a weird thing to do. Do something... anything.

The Leafs should be trying to extend or trade Marner every day this summer to remove any sort of doubt, pressure and media circus this season. It will be painful. Every losing streak, every bad game, every good game... it will be about Marner. Every day. Every time.

 

[Magic Man]

If he won’t accept a trade, letting him walk is the best option. He cannot be resigned, even at what he thinks is a discount.

Can't we just let JT walk? He's old as shit.

Marner will be a consistent 90+ point player. You can't have him leave without getting paid in assets for it. You're headed towards the cellar if you do.

I anticipate if the Leafs let him walk for nothing there is a good chance they miss the playoffs that season.