GDT: Trades & Free Agency -- Off-season edition

[Kiwi]

Dubas turned it into a turd by overpaying 4 forwards knowing well in advance that the 3rd year of the Marleau deal was staring at him in the face. Lou may have handed Dubas a grenade but Dubas did not have to pull the pin and have it detonate in his face.

They paid a guy who was in his mid 30's over 6M and gave him 3 years of term even though he was showing signs of play drop-off with absolutely no way of getting out of it

I realize Dubas is basically Satan around here now but only a complete ****wit would blame him for that travesty of a decision

 

[conFABulator]

Most of the league has been operating at the cap ceiling. Only the Leafs were dumb enough to overpay their RFAs to unprecedented contracts. Those contracts looked terrible before covid too.

My point was that most of the league did not operate at the cap ceiling prior to Covid. There were cap teams and budget teams. Every team operating at the same budget was a leveling of the playing field that could not have been in the original Dubas plan.

The problem is dubas jumped the rebuild we weren't finished. The JT money should have went to defence. .
JT wasnt the kind of leader we needed neither was Marleau.
Managent never let those young players grow into leaders .
Now this is what we are left with

That's a very fair argument. I felt the same way at the time. Tavares probably cost us Pietrangelo.

I am not defending Dubas' moves I am saying they might have looked different if the cap hadn't flattened on them.

 

[Kiwi]

My main purpose was to pencil in RFA's/ returning players and see how it lines up, what's left of UFA hunting. Call it 2.3 for a Brossoit/Stolarz type and roll the dice on Woll. 7m for one dman, 5m for the other.

Once you get into changing guys out, or slotting people up it get's interesting. Say we give Lilly one last shot with McCabe in sustained run to start the year, bring in a Desharnais or a Hakanpaa with Benoit on the bottom pair. Call that 4.5 combined on RD2 and RD3 instead of 7. Trade Kampf and Jarncrok- that's 4.6. 4.6 + 2.5 = 7.1

Robertson- xxx-xxx
Dewar-Holmberg-Grebyonkin

7.1 for the xxx's.
If we don't believe in Robertson trade him too, 8.6 for a completely new 3rd line, setting the tone for a young scrappy 2way 4thline to follow.

I was thinking somebody like Schultz. Cheap Right handed puck mover to pair with somebody like Benoit, I think we need some offense on the backend

I'd be tempted to go after both Domi and Roslovic, one shoots right, the other shoots left, they both can move up the lineup, they have positional flexibility and they should score at least 40 points each

Gives us a 3rd line that can chip in offensively and e still have Cowan waiting for an opportunity

 

[conFABulator]

The problem is dubas jumped the rebuild we weren't finished. The JT money should have went to defence. .
JT wasnt the kind of leader we needed neither was Marleau.
Managent never let those young players grow into leaders .
Now this is what we are left with

That's a very fair argument. I felt the same way at the time. Tavares probably cost us Pietrangelo.

I am not defending Dubas' moves I am saying they might have looked different if the cap hadn't flattened on them.

 

[Americanadian]

They paid a guy who was in his mid 30's over 6M and gave him 3 years of term even though he was showing signs of play drop-off with absolutely no way of getting out of it

I realize Dubas is basically Satan around here now but only a complete ****wit would blame him for that travesty of a decision

He is the first GM of the 2010’s to give up a 1st to dump 1 year of a contract.

 

[4thline]

I was thinking somebody like Schultz. Cheap Right handed puck mover to pair with somebody like Benoit, I think we need some offense on the backend

I'd be tempted to go after both Domi and Roslovic, one shoots right, the other shoots left, they both can move up the lineup, they have positional flexibility and they should score at least 40 points each

Gives us a 3rd line that can chip in offensively and e still have Cowan waiting for an opportunity

I think Roslovic and Domi should be an either or. Need someone to shoot.

 

[Legion34]

Would a Lillypad for Laughton swap interest anyone if he’s not in Toronto plans? I know Philly was shopping him for a 1st round pick.

Would be a clear upgrade on Kampf while making 3m for this year and next at age 30.

I think Lilly for frost is the move that they would do.

 

[Menzinger]

A counter point to Eichel's neck issues are Marner's playoff issues. Even without hindsight I think you'd be more likely to get healthy Eichel in the playoffs than you are to get regular season Marner in the playoffs.


Assuming you mean those teams' top firsts this year, I can't see that ever happening.

Wright wouldn't be a bad target but I wouldn't expect much of a plus

Eichel had no playoff record and there was considerable media smoke about him having attitude issues in Buffalo. Remember,.Vegas didn't trade for a proven Stanley cup winning 1C, he was a huge question mark at that point of his career.

I don't understand why MM won't waive?

Like it seems pretty clear that the MGT won't extend him and he is not part of the future.

There's nothing tangible, including even rumors from the media that suggests that is the case. He's one of the main pillars of Shanny's vision for the team - whose still in his position after receiving the vote of confidence from Pelly.

That's not to say he absolutely won't be traded. But folks shouldnt act like it's a lock.

 

[ToneDog]

They paid a guy who was in his mid 30's over 6M and gave him 3 years of term even though he was showing signs of play drop-off with absolutely no way of getting out of it

I realize Dubas is basically Satan around here now but only a complete ****wit would blame him for that travesty of a decision

Agree the Marleau signing was a huge blunder but Dubas fumbled it. You have no idea what Lou's plan was for the last year of that deal. If you do not sign Tavares or you bridge Marner, you'd now have Jarvis as your #2C. Sorry but a competent GM should have been able to handle it. One of the many mistakes he made over 5 years.

Only a complete ****wit would not blame him for the mishandling of the final year of that deal.

 

[JKG33]

Eichel had no playoff record and there was considerable media smoke about him having attitude issues in Buffalo. Remember,.Vegas didn't trade for a proven Stanley cup winning 1C, he was a huge question mark at that point of his career.

Having a blank slate (no playoff record) is better than what Marner's got, so a point in Eichel's favour there.

I also wasn't concerned about Eichel's alleged attitude, that's without hindsight. I was really hoping the Kings would get him. Wanting out of that Buffalo shitshow isn't a black mark on ones character

My point was that most of the league did not operate at the cap ceiling prior to Covid. There were cap teams and budget teams. Every team operating at the same budget was a leveling of the playing field that could not have been in the original Dubas plan.

That doesn't change how unprecedented those contracts were. Nobody put a gun to Dubas' head forcing him to pay M&M $2-3m more each than every single contract comparable before them

 

[weems]

pagnotta

https://x.com/i/web/status/1800597594831278518

That's very interesting.
I brought up Ferraro's name a few months ago and wonder if he's a player that could still breakout on a better team.

Young LHD that can do a bit of everything. He's also from Toronto which is a cool bonus.

 

[Tony Romo]

Can we ban the word Jarvis from the board?

Makes me sad

 

[OVO16]

Chris Johnston did say 2 days ago he expects the Leafs to trade for one top 4 defenseman this season.

Ferraro could be one of those players

 

[Americanadian]

Driedger is 2nd in the AHL playoffs in SV%. UFA this season who deserves another NHL shot. I would love him as a back up if the Leafs were to bring in a marquee goalie and deal Woll.

 

[Kiwi]

He is the first GM of the 2010’s to give up a 1st to dump 1 year of a contract.

He had a full NMC, he would only accept a move to one place and we wanted to spend to the cap because we were after the cup

Piss off with this bull****, that's Lou and Shanahan's doing

I think Roslovic and Domi should be an either or. Need someone to shoot.

Whoevers cheaper? Give Cowan or Grebyonkin a go on the 3rd line?

 

[Americanadian]

He had a full NMC, he would only accept a move to one place and we wanted to spend to the cap because we were after the cup

Piss off with this bull****, that's Lou and Shanahan's doing

None of this excuses setting a precedent. It was a bad deal the day he made it. It looks even worse as time has gone on. Had Dubas not overpaid the core 4 he wouldn't have had to move Marleau.

Dubas went on to spend that money on Kapanen and Johnsson who he should have cashed out on at max value.

Or not taken on salary in the Kadri deal.

 

[Kiwi]

Agree the Marleau signing was a huge blunder but Dubas fumbled it. You have no idea what Lou's plan was for the last year of that deal. If you do not sign Tavares or you bridge Marner, you'd now have Jarvis as your #2C. Sorry but a competent GM should have been able to handle it. One of the many mistakes he made over 5 years.

Only a complete ****wit would not blame him for the mishandling of the final year of that deal.

There was no "plan", Marleau had a full NMC and wasn't retiring with 6M still on the table

We had zero leverage, literally none

We signed a PPG 1C, nobody had a problem with it and you wanted to bridge Marner? So push our problems a couple of years and make them exponentially worse later

Great plan

Dubas can be blamed for plenty without stupidly blaming him for **** that was dropped into his lap out of his control

 

[conFABulator]

Having a blank slate (no playoff record) is better than what Marner's got, so a point in Eichel's favour there.

I also wasn't concerned about Eichel's alleged attitude, that's without hindsight. I was really hoping the Kings would get him. Wanting out of that Buffalo shitshow isn't a black mark on ones character


That doesn't change how unprecedented those contracts were. Nobody put a gun to Dubas' head forcing him to pay M&M $2-3m more each than every single contract comparable before them

I am not arguing that those contracts were unprecedented or not, I am simply saying they had a plan and the variables changed for that plan in an unprecedented way.

We will never know if their plan would have worked had the cap kept going up as it was expected to because it didn't.

 

[Kiwi]

None of this excuses setting a precedent. It was a bad deal the day he made it. It looks even worse as time has gone on. Had Dubas not overpaid the core 4 he wouldn't have had to move Marleau.

Dubas went on to spend that money on Kapanen and Johnsson who he should have cashed out on at max value.

Or not taken on salary in the Kadri deal.

So he should have been able to see the future? Carolina had to buy the Marleau deal out ffs, nobody's doing that for free and I'm sure you would have been the first person bitching if he'd let Nylander sit a season to bring everybody into line

Nobody complained about those contracts at the time, teams need forward depth so don't Monday morning quarterback me

We needed a RD and Center, so take futures but go into next season with no RD or 3C instead

Are you insane? We were trying for a cup at the time

 

[Gabriel426]

Eichel had no playoff record and there was considerable media smoke about him having attitude issues in Buffalo. Remember,.Vegas didn't trade for a proven Stanley cup winning 1C, he was a huge question mark at that point of his career.



There's nothing tangible, including even rumors from the media that suggests that is the case. He's one of the main pillars of Shanny's vision for the team - whose still in his position after receiving the vote of confidence from Pelly.

That's not to say he absolutely won't be traded. But folks shouldnt act like it's a lock.

If you are Shanny, would you bet your vision working out on the last year of your own contract? or replace one of the pillars in hope that you can new deal with the this new direction will take a few years.

Point I am trying to make is that if Shanny runs it back and it fails again like 1st round exit. What can Shanny possibly sell to the board for a renewal? The fact that MM and JT are off the payroll. Would the board rather have someone new running the show instead of Shanny.
If Shanny is willing to play the bad guy, who trade JT and MM, even if the results is the same or worse, Shanny can sell that the new vision will take time....

 

[conFABulator]

Having a blank slate (no playoff record) is better than what Marner's got, so a point in Eichel's favour there.

Yeah? What if people believe that age, experience and a new environment could bring different results?

What if they pointed to Kadri and Hyman as the examples? No averaged half a point per playoff game as Leafs and around a point per playoff game post-Leafs.

 

[ACC1224]

He had a full NMC, he would only accept a move to one place and we wanted to spend to the cap because we were after the cup

Piss off with this bull****, that's Lou and Shanahan's doing



Whoevers cheaper? Give Cowan or Grebyonkin a go on the 3rd line?

Anyway you look at it Dubas botched the Marleau transaction. I thought that was pretty much universally accepted around here.

 

[Americanadian]

So he should have been able to see the future? Carolina had to buy the Marleau deal out ffs, nobody's doing that for free

There is a large difference between free and a 1st round pick.

and I'm sure you would have been the first person bitching if he'd let Nylander sit a season to bring everybody into line

I was very adamant about making Nylander sit over folding to his demands.

Nobody complained about those contracts at the time, teams need forward depth so don't Monday morning quarterback me

I did. On this board.

We needed a RD and Center, so take futures but go into next season with no RD or 3C instead

Are you insane? We were trying for a cup at the time

That team was never winning a cup.

 

[Kiwi]

Anyway you look at it Dubas botched the Marleau transaction. I thought that was pretty much universally accepted around here.

Hmmmm, let's see, who's to blame?

The guy who gives the over 35 year old over 6M a year with term and a full NMC who could no longer score......

Or the person who didn't sign that deal but was left to deal with the aftermath after it had become toxic

I'm sure you would feel differently if Dubas last name was Marner though

 

[Kiwi]

There is a large difference between free and a 1st round pick.

I was very adamant about making Nylander sit over folding to his demands.

I did. On this board.

That team was never winning a cup.

Who else was buying out a 6M contract for a pick? Go on give me the other names of teams

Are you insane? You wanted to sit Nylander during a contention year?

Please, they were both top 9 wingers with scoring behind them at the time

So don't even try? With the best collection of talent we've had for decades?

There you go again, pretending you could see the future again

Jedi or magic 8 ball telling you this?