Trades and Free Agency - 2022-23 Season Edition

[Americanadian]

What I meant by that was we already had a 2c when we got Tavares instead of rounding out our dcore,paying a premium for horvat doesn’t make sense to me over filling the top 4 right shot void and I’m not giving up the best right winger in the league 1 for 1 for a could be not saying dobson isn’t a good player it just has to be more than juss dobson and I rather hold on to marner and get a defensive defencemen

I completely understand the hesitation to run out 3 C's of that caliber. In this situation I'd love to see Tavares shift to the wing.

Unfortunately there aren't any top pairing shutdown RHD that are available in UFA to take up the cap space that I have allotted to Horvat in this scenario. If the Leafs didn't waste cap space on Matt Murray they may have been able to grab John Marino which is exactly what they need but that ship has sailed. Moving Marner or Nylander is the only way I see to grab a top pair RHD with team control. Dobson is the only one that makes sense and he's technically NYI's top D (by TOI). In a cap world you'd have to view a double move like this as a 1 for 1 because the salary offsets. Sure the Leafs could ask for more in a trade with NYI but the 7M in cap space is incredibly valuable.

 

[Fogelhund]

Dubas should have just given Lyubushkin the money in the off-season and sorted out the cap afterwards. He's exactly the player they could use right now. Could've paid for Bush by subtracting Engvall.

$2.75 mil for a bottom pairing D man just doesn't make sense, and I liked Bush as much as anyone. $1.5 and sure, we should have kept him. In any case, at this point we need to aim higher.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Would like to bring Schenn back. At this point I can't see Muzzin in our future. This might not be an amazing top 6 but gives us a nice mix I think and can play with a little more snarl.

Rielly Liljegren
Brodie Schenn
Giordano Benn

 

[Fogelhund]

I would really rather use Muzzins cap space on an impact forward. Brodie will be back soon and is comfortable on the right side. Apart from last night, our scoring has been bad and we usually struggle in the playoffs there as well.

and yet the opposite was true last year. We were 4th in the playoffs, of 16 teams in GF/G We were bottom half in GA/G

We were second in the regular season in the league last year, at GF/G Bottom half in GA/G.

Our scoring so far this year, mostly comes down to shooting percentage, which in theory should return to where it has been... if we were shooting at the same rate we have in the past, we are a top 5 team in the league in scoring again.

Our achilles heal, if anything, has been goaltending, with the second lowest save percentage, of starting goalies in the playoffs.

I think we need some patience here, to properly identify the main need.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Would like to bring Schenn back. At this point I can't see Muzzin in our future. This might not be an amazing top 6 but gives us a nice mix I think and can play with a little more snarl.

Rielly Liljegren
Brodie Schenn
Giordano Benn

Schenn is not good. Benn will regress back to his norm. You get significantly worse taking Holl and Sandin out for those two.

 

[TheDoldrums]

and yet the opposite was true last year. We were 4th in the playoffs, of 16 teams in GF/G We were bottom half in GA/G

We were second in the regular season in the league last year, at GF/G Bottom half in GA/G.

Our scoring so far this year, mostly comes down to shooting percentage, which in theory should return to where it has been... if we were shooting at the same rate we have in the past, we are a top 5 team in the league in scoring again.

Our achilles heal, if anything, has been goaltending, with the second lowest save percentage, of starting goalies in the playoffs.

I think we need some patience here, to properly identify the main need.

1, 3, 1, 2, 3, 0, 1, 2

those are are goals scored in games where we could win a series over the past few years. And they all followed the same script despite playing a bunch of different teams, they kept packing the middle of the ice and we could not penetrate and create enough good chances.

We simply don't score enough in the most important games and it's been going on for too many years for me to think it's luck at this point.

 

[Fogelhund]

1, 3, 1, 2, 3, 0, 1, 2

those are are goals scored in games where we could win a series over the past few years. And they all followed the same script despite playing a bunch of different teams, they kept packing the middle of the ice and we could not penetrate and create enough good chances.

We simply don't score enough in the most important games and it's been going on for too many years for me to think it's luck at this point.

That doesn't suggest a need for more offense.. it's suggests a need for the guys we have, which clearly provide enough offense, to show up when it counts the most. Adding a body won't change that, maturation perhaps, and fighting through in these games will. If certain players prove that they can't grow, we need a retool in our offense, not adding a singular player.

If our elite offensive players, aren't our best players when we need them most, making trades is just shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

 

[TheDoldrums]

That doesn't suggest a need for more offense.. it's suggests a need for the guys we have, which clearly provide enough offense, to show up when it counts the most. Adding a body won't change that, maturation perhaps, and fighting through in these games will. If certain players prove that they can't grow, we need a retool in our offense, not adding a singular player.

If our elite offensive players, aren't our best players when we need them most, making trades is just shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

Sure but after so many chances we wonder if these guys are able to fight through on their own. Maybe another really good forward who has a bit more of a workmanlike game than our guys, like a ROR, could be that push needed to get over the hump. Maybe a different voice at forward whose good enough to command respect changes that mentality in those tight playoff games.

 

[pspot]

IMO I'd like to see them go for more shot blocking , its something they've never done consistently and is so important in the playoffs. They did it for the first 2 or 3 games vs the lightening and then it dropped off.

Connor Murphy is a name that has been brought up , he's RHD, hits and blocks shots
Ferraro from SJ would be another interesting add, hometown, LHD and doesn't have same size but would be a good add to make them harder to play against. more of a PMD that also blocks
Mikkola in STL would be another bigger guy that hits and blocks, depth move

For forwards
Tolvanen still can't seem to break through in NS, kid hits, blocks and shoots. wonder what the price would be
Hathaway would add size that actually hits a lot and blocks,
Acciari would be another guy and if you could get him with Mikkola would be a solid depth move

 

[SeaOfBlue]

That doesn't suggest a need for more offense.. it's suggests a need for the guys we have, which clearly provide enough offense, to show up when it counts the most. Adding a body won't change that, maturation perhaps, and fighting through in these games will. If certain players prove that they can't grow, we need a retool in our offense, not adding a singular player.

If our elite offensive players, aren't our best players when we need them most, making trades is just shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

Teams also can't park the bus if they do not have a lead. Our goalies have handed leads to the other team far too often.

We can just look at Tampa as an example.

Between their two Cups, they scored the following in potentially series clinching games:

5 (W OT), 3 (W OT), 1 (L OT), 2 (W OT), 2 (L OT), 2 (W), 4 (W), 2 (W), 1 (W), 2 (L OT), 1 (W)

In 2021, they got a shutout in every one of their series winning games. They only had two games where they put up 3 or more goals in regulation, and only one where they put up 4 goals without an EN goal attached in there. This is a team that won back-to-back Cups.

We do not have a Vasilevsky, but we also do not need shutouts either. We just need a goalie who can play as well as the defense in front of him, and we haven't had that. That may not win us a Cup, but we are asking for the bare minimum and the bare minimum would at least win us a couple of series. Realistically, we should be getting more than the bare minimum.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

A great forward that logs a lot of minutes will improve the defense generally speaking.

However, I recognize the need for a steady guy like a Brodie/Muzzin who can be relied upon on both 5on5 and on the PK. Holl plays a ton on the PK and is probably being asked to do too much

 

[1specter]

A great forward that logs a lot of minutes will improve the defense generally speaking.

However, I recognize the need for a steady guy like a Brodie/Muzzin who can be relied upon on both 5on5 and on the PK. Holl plays a ton on the PK and is probably being asked to do too much

An underrated and not talked about target IMO is Dmitry Kulikov. Playing on Anaheim's top pairing currently on the right side, and has been their best guy in terms of limiting chances against. Also a pending UFA...I can't imagine he would cost too much? Not a guy that gets a lot of buzz but is quietly effective IMO. He was also good for Minnesota last year and they basically traded him away for a bag of pucks.

 

[Judas Tavares]

and yet the opposite was true last year. We were 4th in the playoffs, of 16 teams in GF/G We were bottom half in GA/G

We were second in the regular season in the league last year, at GF/G Bottom half in GA/G.

Our scoring so far this year, mostly comes down to shooting percentage, which in theory should return to where it has been... if we were shooting at the same rate we have in the past, we are a top 5 team in the league in scoring again.

Our achilles heal, if anything, has been goaltending, with the second lowest save percentage, of starting goalies in the playoffs.

I think we need some patience here, to properly identify the main need.

1, 3, 1, 2, 3, 0, 1, 2

those are are goals scored in games where we could win a series over the past few years. And they all followed the same script despite playing a bunch of different teams, they kept packing the middle of the ice and we could not penetrate and create enough good chances.

We simply don't score enough in the most important games and it's been going on for too many years for me to think it's luck at this point.

That doesn't suggest a need for more offense.. it's suggests a need for the guys we have, which clearly provide enough offense, to show up when it counts the most. Adding a body won't change that, maturation perhaps, and fighting through in these games will. If certain players prove that they can't grow, we need a retool in our offense, not adding a singular player.

If our elite offensive players, aren't our best players when we need them most, making trades is just shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

Sure but after so many chances we wonder if these guys are able to fight through on their own. Maybe another really good forward who has a bit more of a workmanlike game than our guys, like a ROR, could be that push needed to get over the hump. Maybe a different voice at forward whose good enough to command respect changes that mentality in those tight playoff games.

Teams also can't park the bus if they do not have a lead. Our goalies have handed leads to the other team far too often.

We can just look at Tampa as an example.

Between their two Cups, they scored the following in potentially series clinching games:

5 (W OT), 3 (W OT), 1 (L OT), 2 (W OT), 2 (L OT), 2 (W), 4 (W), 2 (W), 1 (W), 2 (L OT), 1 (W)

In 2021, they got a shutout in every one of their series winning games. They only had two games where they put up 3 or more goals in regulation, and only one where they put up 4 goals without an EN goal attached in there. This is a team that won back-to-back Cups.

We do not have a Vasilevsky, but we also do not need shutouts either. We just need a goalie who can play as well as the defense in front of him, and we haven't had that. That may not win us a Cup, but we are asking for the bare minimum and the bare minimum would at least win us a couple of series. Realistically, we should be getting more than the bare minimum.

This is actually a great debate and I've found myself on both sides multiple times. Andersen and Campbell let in some real back breakers over the years. I was able to forgive Freddy for the first few in the first couple playoff series, but once we got to 2019 Bruins and 2020 Jackets, I couldn't take it anymore. Campbell let in some tough ones both against the Habs and Lightning.

But at the same time, all we needed was one more goal here and there, not every game, but in some, and we would have been fine. Like for example, maybe that second Paul goal was crap, but like, score 3 goals and you still win. So you can see both sides here.

But, when you are paying $40 million for goals and $5 million for saves, I more often than not expect the $40 million to provide 4 goals to help erase the potential of 2 stinkers by $5 million in a 4-3 game. Shouldn't be tough to ask. It's why I've lately felt more on the forwards to blame side of the coin lately.

That being said, the big 4 need to come through more than the team needs to add a 5th scorer at this point. The 5th scorer comes when the big 4 get you deep and the 5th is there to help the team over the hump, not get them out of the first round.

 

[Fogelhund]

This is actually a great debate and I've found myself on both sides multiple times. Andersen and Campbell let in some real back breakers over the years. I was able to forgive Freddy for the first few in the first couple playoff series, but once we got to 2019 Bruins and 2020 Jackets, I couldn't take it anymore. Campbell let in some tough ones both against the Habs and Lightning.

But at the same time, all we needed was one more goal here and there, not every game, but in some, and we would have been fine. Like for example, maybe that second Paul goal was crap, but like, score 3 goals and you still win. So you can see both sides here.

But, when you are paying $40 million for goals and $5 million for saves, I more often than not expect the $40 million to provide 4 goals to help erase the potential of 2 stinkers by $5 million in a 4-3 game. Shouldn't be tough to ask. It's why I've lately felt more on the forwards to blame side of the coin lately.

That being said, the big 4 need to come through more than the team needs to add a 5th scorer at this point. The 5th scorer comes when the big 4 get you deep and the 5th is there to help the team over the hump, not get them out of the first round.

It is a good debate... more than anything, my opinion is let's have some patience. I mean, I'd love to make this team the best in the league, bring in a 3C, a RD, a top six LW even... maybe a top goalie... but we obviously don't have the cap room, or currency to obtain all of those... so it's best to have more patience, and decide what we need most, as the season plays out. Maybe our D comes together well, and we don't need a D... maybe Holmberg proves he can be our 3C (probably not..)... maybe our goalies remain healthy, and play well... or maybe there are more injuries and that is THE most important thing....

 

[Knies iT]

Nashville, St. Louis, and Columbus are teams i'm watching closely. All of them are prolonging the inevitable and will eventually need to sell wholesale if things don't change.

Nashville is particularly interesting for depth shopping: Jeannot, Trenin, Sissons, Carrier.

 

[andora]

Nashville, St. Louis, and Columbus are teams i'm watching closely. All of them are prolonging the inevitable and will eventually need to sell wholesale if things don't change.

Nashville is particularly interesting for depth shopping: Jeannot, Trenin, Sissons, Carrier.

Any one of those guys would inject a lot.. 2 could change the entire swagger..

I cant think they would entertain trading jeannot or trenin.. carrier is also one of those is it worth it to even trade him

Sissons i could see available.. him and kampf bottom two centers is very solid.

These are the types of players this team needs.. with analyzing scores or atats or metrics or any of the bullshit that creates debates - they need players with more balls and a motor.. that is it. Guys that play and sacrifice and go head first into the fight.

 

[Martin Skoula]

This is actually a great debate and I've found myself on both sides multiple times. Andersen and Campbell let in some real back breakers over the years. I was able to forgive Freddy for the first few in the first couple playoff series, but once we got to 2019 Bruins and 2020 Jackets, I couldn't take it anymore. Campbell let in some tough ones both against the Habs and Lightning.

But at the same time, all we needed was one more goal here and there, not every game, but in some, and we would have been fine. Like for example, maybe that second Paul goal was crap, but like, score 3 goals and you still win. So you can see both sides here.

But, when you are paying $40 million for goals and $5 million for saves, I more often than not expect the $40 million to provide 4 goals to help erase the potential of 2 stinkers by $5 million in a 4-3 game. Shouldn't be tough to ask. It's why I've lately felt more on the forwards to blame side of the coin lately.

That being said, the big 4 need to come through more than the team needs to add a 5th scorer at this point. The 5th scorer comes when the big 4 get you deep and the 5th is there to help the team over the hump, not get them out of the first round.

The problem is when we start the game down 2-0 and the other team has a Hedman/Jones/Weber/Chara who can be 6'6 and play a trap game. If it's still a 0-0 game, they have to take risks to win, and we're good at turning those risks into goals for us. If we spot them a lead early they can play purely for denying us lanes in the offensive zone without ever worrying about their breakout.

 

[HomelessPepper]

LOL we are not giving up Marner for a rental and a 2nd pairing defenseman.

Obviously only works if we're able to sign Horvat to a reasonable contract. And I shouldn't have to say that.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Obviously only works if we're able to sign Horvat to a reasonable contract. And I shouldn't have to say that.

It doesn't work under any condition. You do not give up a player like Marner for that return.

 

[WTFMAN99]

$2.75 mil for a bottom pairing D man just doesn't make sense, and I liked Bush as much as anyone. $1.5 and sure, we should have kept him. In any case, at this point we need to aim higher.

Do you think Buffalo had to overpay to get him? Could we have gotten him for 2-2.25M per year if we signed him ahead of UFA?

Subtract Holl and Engvall and it's okay.

Becoming increasingly obvious we also have a 3C hole and Kerfoot has been among the most useless players on this roster to date.

What I keep coming back to is the roster needed more change this off-season and Dubas opted not to do it.

 

[1specter]

Wonder what the cost for Gavrikov is

 

[Fogelhund]

Do you think Buffalo had to overpay to get him? Could we have gotten him for 2-2.25M per year if we signed him ahead of UFA?

Subtract Holl and Engvall and it's okay.

Becoming increasingly obvious we also have a 3C hole and Kerfoot has been among the most useless players on this roster to date.

What I keep coming back to is the roster needed more change this off-season and Dubas opted not to do it.

The next question is where would you fit Lyubushkin? He's not very good on the PK, while Holl is... are you keeping Boosh instead of Liljegren? We need that PK presence... I just believe that they didn't think he was a fit for where the team was going. Then Buffalo overpaid. If you are going to remove Holl, you need to upgrade on that spot, and while Boosh is more physical, he isn't an overall upgrade at all, even 5v5. Boosh is a bottom pairing guy... and that spot is Lilly right now... and I'm not taking Boosh over Lilly, I can tell you that much.

I agree we could you that physicality... but go ahead and properly upgrade the Holl spot. I'm back to Murphy and Peeke. Some people are talking about Gavrikov as well..

I don't think this is realistic, but let's imagine Columbus goes for a change in direction... we could fix a lot here, but trading for Gavrikov, Peeke and Jenner (and I don't think Jenner in particular is available)... have to send Kerfoot, Holl, Sandin, 1st and probably one or two of the Finns. Gavrikov is a soon to be UFA, so you'd have to sort that out quick and hope he signs for under $5 mil. It would be difficult to fit under the cap next year, and you would have somewhere around $3-4 mil max for Bunting if you elected to keep him.

 

[Ashdown2]

Wonder what the cost for Gavrikov is

market hasnt been set put probably the same as lubby last year.


did brian boyle retire ?
i wonder if we could convince him to come back and play 4C for this group.

 

[1specter]

market hasnt been set put probably the same as lubby last year.


did brian boyle retire ?
i wonder if we could convince him to come back and play 4C for this group.

Gavrikov is quite a bit better than Lyubushkin and has played big top 4 minutes for Columbus for years now, including time on the top pairing with Werenski. Also put up 33 pts last year despite being mostly a defensive dman. He's definitely gonna cost more than Lyubushkin did

 

[leafsfan5]

Sign me up for Gavrikov

Rielly - Liljergen
Gavrikov - Brodie

Is a very solid top 4