Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXXIX

[Burrowsaurus]

Wouldn't be the first time. This fanbase is in some serious Karlsson denial. Incredible talent. But you're really not paying attention. Guy wouldn't practice if he didn't feel like it. You think that was only Hoffman. Come on now. He was best friends with Kane...

I just don’t romanticize “the locker room” like others do. I think multiple things contributed to the sharks being bad. Not just karlsson crossing the threshold of the locker room.

Do you beleive in Brady? And Claude and Chabot? Then anyone should be able to be brought in. Other than like true cancers. Which I don’t beleive Karlsson is.

This is all just fun speculation tho I don’t think anyone actually believes we are bringing him back

 

[GCK]

From a small inside source I have into the Sharks room - Karlsson and Miere were the only guys Kane could call a "friend" in the room.

And not that Karlsson and Meire weren't tight with anyone else in the room, but apparently those three would often be going by themselves to more "exclusive" and lavish places while on the road together with the team. And it created problems when two of the bigger names on the team didn't join in with the rest in boycotting Kane.

Also, Couture and EK bitterly hate each other. Like straight up enemies on a personal level. but they have a truce and have agreed to make it work together on ice for the sake of the team.

Couture was a real duck when he was in the CHL, I imagine he’s still a prick.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Wouldn't be the first time. This fanbase is in some serious Karlsson denial. Incredible talent. But you're really not paying attention. Guy wouldn't practice if he didn't feel like it. You think that was only Hoffman. Come on now. He was best friends with Kane...

You're posting some real boogeyman shit.

Karlsson was given practice days off in 16/17 because he was playing 26:50 a night in the regular season, 28:08 a night in the playoffs, carrying the team on his back. Anyone who thinks someone playing his role should practice as much as the 3rd liner playing 12 minutes a night needs to go back to 1996.

And it's funny how so many have fallen for Pierre Dorion's "locker-room was broken" copout. We sucked in 2017 because we had a defense of:

1) Erik Karlsson who was rushed back from a major injury
2) Cody Ceci
3) A rapidly declining Dion Phaneuf
4) Johnny Oduya
5) Freddy Claesson
6) Ben Harpur
7) Mark Borowiecki

Sound familiar? When you surround one good but extremely overplayed defenseman with shit, you get shit results more often than not. And amidst the losing, we had Pierre Dorion and Eugene Melnyk out in the media puffing out their chest at every opportunity.

By the end of the season, yeah, the locker room was a mess. But the main cause was losing. Not Erik Karlsson's personality. The guy who was primarily responsible for that debacle is still here.

And what does "best friends with Kane..." imply? He's also very close with Joe Thornton. Continues to be close with Alfredsson, Stone, Turris, Borowiecki, etc. Does having a bunch of good guy friends offset one bad guy friend?

Regardless, he won't be coming back here.

 

[bert]

This is some real boogeyman shit.

Karlsson was given practice days off in 16/17 because he was playing 26:50 a night in the regular season, 28:08 a night in the playoffs, carrying the team on his back. Anyone who thinks someone playing his role should practice as much as the 3rd liner playing 12 minutes a night needs to go back to 1996.

And it's funny how so many have fallen for Pierre Dorion's "locker-room was broken" copout. We sucked in 2017 because we had a defense of:

1) Erik Karlsson who was rushed back from a major injury
2) Cody Ceci
3) A rapidly declining Dion Phaneuf
4) Johnny Oduya
5) Freddy Claesson
6) Ben Harpur
7) Mark Borowiecki

Sound familiar? When you surround one good but extremely overplayed defenseman with shit, you get shit results more often than not. And amidst the losing, we had Pierre Dorion and Eugene Melnyk out in the media puffing out their chest at every opportunity.

By the end of the season, yeah, the locker room was a mess. But the main cause was losing. Not Erik Karlsson's personality. The guy who was primarily responsible for that debacle is still here.

And what does "best friends with Kane..." imply? He's also very close with Joe Thornton. Continues to be close with Alfredsson, Stone, Turris, Borowiecki, etc. Does having a bunch of good guy friends offset one bad guy friend?

I mean this conversation spiralled. He just isnt a good fit at any level for where this team is at or where its trending especially with his contract (both dollar numbers and duration) and the core age of this group. Given his history with this organization I think it would be very disruptive to the leadership core. No player or person is perfect and I dont expect that. I just dont think he is the right personality to throw into the mix at this point and time. Obviously there were multiple issues in San Jose but that locker room did get divided and to suggest that Karlsson didnt have an ego after the praise he received I think is being a bit naive. Now whats happened to him since then is very humbling and perhaps he is through that phase in his life. Maybe he has dedicated himself to the sport now. He never did much in the offseasons because he didnt have to. I heard he did last year. I think that was a transition period for him. I think he wants out and I cant help but think the fact he chooses to turn it on and off at his leisure isnt the best type of leadership to add to this locker room that is only good when they work hard and bring it every night. Teams take on the identity of their leadership group and best players. Brady Tkachuk and Erik Karlsson are very different in that regard.

Everyone has their own opinions seems to me like alot of fans are just happy being competitive. Ultimately I want to see a cup, bandaid fixes for this young group isnt going to get them where they need to be. Thats what Karlsson is in this scenario.

 

[GCK]

You're posting some real boogeyman shit.

Karlsson was given practice days off in 16/17 because he was playing 26:50 a night in the regular season, 28:08 a night in the playoffs, carrying the team on his back. Anyone who thinks someone playing his role should practice as much as the 3rd liner playing 12 minutes a night needs to go back to 1996.

And it's funny how so many have fallen for Pierre Dorion's "locker-room was broken" copout. We sucked in 2017 because we had a defense of:

1) Erik Karlsson who was rushed back from a major injury
2) Cody Ceci
3) A rapidly declining Dion Phaneuf
4) Johnny Oduya
5) Freddy Claesson
6) Ben Harpur
7) Mark Borowiecki

Sound familiar? When you surround one good but extremely overplayed defenseman with shit, you get shit results more often than not. And amidst the losing, we had Pierre Dorion and Eugene Melnyk out in the media puffing out their chest at every opportunity.

By the end of the season, yeah, the locker room was a mess. But the main cause was losing. Not Erik Karlsson's personality. The guy who was primarily responsible for that debacle is still here.

And what does "best friends with Kane..." imply? He's also very close with Joe Thornton. Continues to be close with Alfredsson, Stone, Turris, Borowiecki, etc. Does having a bunch of good guy friends offset one bad guy friend?

Karlsson was a pretty arrogant jerk when he was here, not uncommon amongst elite talents. He was the same way with some of his teammates. He was cocky early which is fine but once our core vets like Alfie left he went next level and split the group. Don’t believe me if you don’t want to but it’s been said by more than a couple ex players who were depth players.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I mean this conversation spiralled. He just isnt a good fit at any level for where this team is at or where its trending especially with his contract (both dollar numbers and duration) and the core age of this group. Given his history with this organization I think it would be very disruptive to the leadership core. No player or person is perfect and I dont expect that. I just dont think he is the right personality to throw into the mix at this point and time. Obviously there were multiple issues in San Jose but that locker room did get divided and to suggest that Karlsson didnt have an ego after the praise he received I think is being a bit naive. Now whats happened to him since then is very humbling and perhaps he is through that phase in his life. Maybe he has dedicated himself to the sport now. He never did much in the offseasons because he didnt have to. I heard he did last year. I think that was a transition period for him. I think he wants out and I cant help but think the fact he chooses to turn it on and off at his leisure isnt the best type of leadership to add to this locker room that is only good when they work hard and bring it every night. Teams take on the identity of their leadership group and best players. Brady Tkachuk and Erik Karlsson are very different in that regard.

Everyone has their own opinions seems to me like alot of fans are just happy being competitive. Ultimately I want to see a cup, bandaid fixes for this young group isnt going to get them where they need to be. Thats what Karlsson is in this scenario.

Oh I agree that he's not a fit for this team for a multitude of reasons, like:

1. We have Chabot and Sanderson
2. San Jose won't need to retain 50% to deal him, they'll be able to move him at 25% retained which means he'll still have an $8.6M AAV
3. He's 32 and this team doesn't look close to contending

But the narrative of him being a locker room killer is very overblown. Does he have an ego? Yeah, of course, but so do most top-end guys (see: Matthews, McDavid, Kane, M.Tkachuk, etc). And he certainly has been treated differently over his career than the grinders on his own team, but that's the sports world we live in today. Gone are the days of Randy Cunneyworth running a locker room.

 

[Big Muddy]

I wonder if talking about something other than Erik Karlsson would be a good idea for this thread at this point?

 

[HSF]

i wouldnt worry too much about karlsson and the lockerroom stuff. If Dorion is okay with bringing him back and Alfie is in his corner I am not worried as those guys would be in the know.

I only worry about age and cap hit.

Couture is not the best person either as those in Ottawa already know but who nows like Karlsson ppl do mature over time.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Karlsson was a pretty arrogant jerk when he was here, not uncommon amongst elite talents. He was the same way with some of his teammates. He was cocky early which is fine but once our core vets like Alfie left he went next level and split the group. Don’t believe me if you don’t want to but it’s been said by more than a couple ex players who were depth players.

Sure he was cocky. He was, at the time, a top 5 player in the world. But considering he's still close with many of the core pieces of the post-Alfie teams (Turris, Stone, Boro, Methot, etc) I think the locker room stuff is very overblown.

We were a team with some talent, but flawed construction. It caught up to us.

And I'm sure there were plenty of depth players who didn't love him. Just like I'm sure there are depth players today who think Tkachuk is an entitled rich kid who's been handed everything on a silver platter and Chabot is an overpaid coaster who thinks he's Makar.

That type of stuff exists in every single hyper-competitive locker room, or workplace.

 

[HSF]

Why do we need Chychrun? He's not even a natural RD and comes with a ton of risk. Sanderson's play has made me forget about acquiring him.

why does the last place team need a good young defensemen? I dunno just a hunch i guess

 

[DaveMatthew]

why does the last place team need a good young defensemen? I dunno just a hunch i guess

There's a couple of things that should make people pause about Chychrun.

He's not a natural RD, and has never played RD for an extended period of time. And his primary strength is the offensive side of his game, not defense.

Plus, I'd be shocked if the Coyotes moved him without getting a '23 1st round pick back, and considering where we are in the standings, we shouldn't even consider that.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It needs to be said again. Karlsson has not been "awful" his whole SJ tenure. He is killing it this year, was really good last year before the injury, and was really good the first run they had with him. It's literally only been a couple years in between on a bad team with a poor fit with Burns there, numerous injuries, and the coaching change this year obviously changed things. His "decline" has been grossly overexaggerated just like Stone and Duchene. Overpaid? Sure, but they can all still be game changers and the production has mostly been there when they aren't injured.

Don't buy for a second that he wouldn't be a fit here. I think it would be like found money having a reunion like that and a guy like Chucky and him would be pals by the first day. Stop blaming team drama on one guy, especially for two teams that lacked talent and were both falling apart at the seams.

And friends with Kane? So what. The best player in the game right now and another not far behind both welcomed Kane with open arms in Edmonton.

 

[GCK]

Sure he was cocky. He was, at the time, a top 5 player in the world. But considering he's still close with many of the core pieces of the post-Alfie teams (Turris, Stone, Boro, Methot, etc) I think the locker room stuff is very overblown.

We were a team with some talent, but flawed construction. It caught up to us.

And I'm sure there were plenty of depth players who didn't love him. Just like I'm sure there are depth players today who think Tkachuk is an entitled rich kid who's been handed everything on a silver platter and Chabot is an overpaid coaster who thinks he's Makar.

That type of stuff exists in every single hyper-competitive locker room, or workplace.

Yup he still close with some guys from the team, that’s how cliques work.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Yup he still close with some guys from the team, that’s how cliques work.

You know that every team has cliques right? Remember the 90's Detroit Red Wings? Steve Yzerman and Brendan Shanahan weren't hanging out with Sergei Fedorov on off-days. The Russian Five were a pretty famous clique.

The 17/18 Senators sucked because they were a poorly constructed team, not because of cliques.

San Jose acquired Karlsson too late after they're GM misevaluated the runway his roster had left. With him or without him, they would've taken big steps back.

Same thing with us and Duchene. We didn't become a bad team because we traded for an a**hole, which, apparently, he was in Colorado. We were going to be a bad team regardless.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

agaisnt

Wouldn't be the first time. This fanbase is in some serious Karlsson denial. Incredible talent. But you're really not paying attention. Guy wouldn't practice if he didn't feel like it. You think that was only Hoffman. Come on now. He was best friends with Kane...

You're posting some real boogeyman shit.

Karlsson was given practice days off in 16/17 because he was playing 26:50 a night in the regular season, 28:08 a night in the playoffs, carrying the team on his back. Anyone who thinks someone playing his role should practice as much as the 3rd liner playing 12 minutes a night needs to go back to 1996.

And it's funny how so many have fallen for Pierre Dorion's "locker-room was broken" copout. We sucked in 2017 because we had a defense of:

1) Erik Karlsson who was rushed back from a major injury
2) Cody Ceci
3) A rapidly declining Dion Phaneuf
4) Johnny Oduya
5) Freddy Claesson
6) Ben Harpur
7) Mark Borowiecki

Sound familiar? When you surround one good but extremely overplayed defenseman with shit, you get shit results more often than not. And amidst the losing, we had Pierre Dorion and Eugene Melnyk out in the media puffing out their chest at every opportunity.

By the end of the season, yeah, the locker room was a mess. But the main cause was losing. Not Erik Karlsson's personality. The guy who was primarily responsible for that debacle is still here.

And what does "best friends with Kane..." imply? He's also very close with Joe Thornton. Continues to be close with Alfredsson, Stone, Turris, Borowiecki, etc. Does having a bunch of good guy friends offset one bad guy friend?

Regardless, he won't be coming back here.

It's so obvious, I can't believe Melnyks smear campaign actually worked.

The locker room wasn't broken because of an injured, being run into the ground Karlsson needing days off to recover. It was the organization itself that was broken because of Melnyk and Dorion. Thank Alfie those days are almost over.

 

[HSF]

There's a couple of things that should make people pause about Chychrun.

He's not a natural RD, and has never played RD for an extended period of time. And his primary strength is the offensive side of his game, not defense.

Plus, I'd be shocked if the Coyotes moved him without getting a '23 1st round pick back, and considering where we are in the standings, we shouldn't even consider that.

Agreed that RD should be the focus but I do think that out of the rumoured names that CHychrun still fits the best. I would even try to give a lottery protected 1st from 2024.

Chychrun with Chabot could work well and would give us well needed depth. I would still take him over Karlsson, Demelo, Edmonson or Savard. The perfect fit player is actually Seth Jones but Chicago would have to retain a lot of salary which I don't think they do.

unfortunately looks like Marino would have been a perfect fit at a not to high of a cost. I just don't see us getting a good young RD mid season to help. Dorion should have solved this earlier

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

agaisnt

It's so obvious, I can't believe Melnyks smear campaign actually worked.

The locker room wasn't broken because of an injured, being run into the ground Karlsson needing days off to recover. It was the organization itself that was broken because of Melnyk and Dorion. Thank Alfie those days are almost over.

Everything for this franchise turned around pretty much from the moment Melnyk was no longer in the picture. Its not a coincidence.

 

[Big Muddy]

why does the last place team need a good young defensemen? I dunno just a hunch i guess

Sure, we need another good, top 4 D. We can all agree to that, and get behind that.

The question is what price are we willing to pay? Would we move Pinto, the 2023 1st and one (or two) other good pieces? It's been suggested that it was assets like Sanderson, Pinto & the 2023 1st that Arizona was after.

As they say, there's a reason for everything. And, for some reason, even though Chychrun has been on the market for about a year now, ZERO teams have made the trade for him.

 

[GCK]

You know that every team has cliques right? Remember the 90's Detroit Red Wings? Steve Yzerman and Brendan Shanahan weren't hanging out with Sergei Fedorov on off-days. The Russian Five were a pretty famous clique.

The 17/18 Senators sucked because they were a poorly constructed team, not because of cliques.

San Jose acquired Karlsson too late after they're GM misevaluated the runway his roster had left. With him or without him, they would've taken big steps back.

Same thing with us and Duchene. We didn't become a bad team because we traded for an a**hole, which, apparently, he was in Colorado. We were going to be a bad team regardless.

K. I’ll believe what I believe to be true, you do the same. I’ll bet we agree the team sucked at the end due to roster construction and not just the locker room. Teams that win survive bad rooms.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

K. I’ll believe what I believe to be true, you do the same. I’ll bet we agree the team sucked at the end due to roster construction and not just the locker room. Teams that win survive bad rooms.

And teams that lose often end up with bad rooms as a byproduct I would bet.

 

[playasRus]

Boy am I glad we didn't trade away our FRP hastily this summer. Even with some random D, tough to think we'd be out of bottom 5 the way this team is coached.

Maybe Norris and Chabot wouldn't be injured from the ripple effect I guess.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Interesting that Friedman believes Dorion and Grier have had discussions on bringing Karlsson back.

Right or wrong, I would find that pretty fascinating to see Dorion re-visit Karlsson.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

K. I’ll believe what I believe to be true, you do the same. I’ll bet we agree the team sucked at the end due to roster construction and not just the locker room. Teams that win survive bad rooms.

Our best team ever had an infamous room lol. Extremely cliquey. Country club mentality.

I have second hand knowledge ThAt the flights after losses were legitimately frightening. Fights nearly breaking out on the plane. The room despises eachother outside of the cliques.

Only one things matter. Wins. And losses.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Karlsson isn't a perfect fit by any means. I definitely think we need a shutdown defenseman more than an offensive guy, but there's no question he'd be a significant help to our PP.

Chabot can move the puck well but he just isn't a great PP QB when in the offensive zone because of his muffin of a shot. Just zero threat of him scoring from a point shot and that means the opposition can just cover the shooting threat, and with Norris out and Stutzle playing on the right side only DeBrincat is capable of scoring from distance.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Damn who was the little bitch?