Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 77

[26Mats]

Oddly enough I think the likelihood of Anderson getting moved is near nothing.

Teams will have to overpay and I just don't see it.

Drouin & Byron are no-brainers as UFA's on a team not expected to make the playoffs.

that leaves Hoffman/Armia.

I think teams would rather take a chance on Hoffman (shorter term, more proven) than Armia

what makes you say teams would have to overpay for Anderson?

Drouin and Byron will only get moved as UFA's if they actual play well enough/stay healthy enough for teams to think they'll help them. Matthew Perreault lost all his value last year, and Max Domi went for next to nothing. And he's a much better player than Drouin.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

It would be a dream if KH was able to move Gallagher to some team with an old school mentality.

...like the 2015 Montreal Canadiens...errr, wait...

 

[Heffyhoof]

Ludicrous. The Habs have too many prospects and too many draft picks. Impact players must be acquired and that means letting go for the Bergevin-era fear of failure. Due to the way time and wear&tear works, inaction is failure in and of itself -- see how the Habs' best players fell apart with old age and injury and forced the Habs into rebuilding from scratch. Also, inaction such as never acquiring any extra valuable draft positions and never trading 'futures' away for impact players in the present is bad for the same reason. But it's never either/or with 'stockpile all the future' and 'constantly trade them for presents'... it's obviously a dynamic topic.

It doesn't matter how a player is acquired, what matters is how they fit in the club's trajectory. Laine is 25 next season and in his prime. If the Habs are to build a core, they need to get a mix of players who are good enough to rely on. Given Suzuki and Caufield's age, that core needs to get assembled quicker than you think. If the Habs are going to trade Suzuki and Caufield, which I doubt, then they aren't a serious club and just want to jump on the carousel of fan hype. So if we accept that Suzuki and Caufield are the anchors of our next compete window that means we have about five years before they get toward their late 20s and therefore past their statistical prime. Five years from TODAY they will be past their prime.

Brayden Point was 23 when the current Tampa dynasty won its first cup, Kucherov 26, and Hedman 29. This year Makar is 23, Rantanen is 25, Mackinnon is 26, Landeskog is the old timer 29 years old.

Exclusively relying on the mystery box that is a draft pick, especially given how poorly the Habs have drafted and developed impact players the last 10+ years, is a bad call in my opinion. What matters is using any means necessary to build a young and talented team and giving them enough kicks at the can so they build up the experience needed to win. That means the Habs need to make serious playoff runs, or attempts, as soon as possible. If Hughes wants to do a scorched earth sell-off, he will have a tough time ensuring he can actually rebuild. See how badly Buffalo, Ottawa, Arizona, and even Edmonton botched it.

I'm not saying we need Kevin Fiala or Patrick Laine by any means necessary, but I wouldn't be so attached to the 1st round pick.

You do realize that Montreal has just completed a hypothetical year one of a rebuild and you're already posting walls of text about how even a single extra year where the team isn't competing will be a disaster. Let go of the MB-era fear of failure by p*ssing away the future to compete now at all costs. Huh, that somehow still reminds me of the MB era.

Also, building up experience of winning in the playoffs? Are you a new fan or did you forget half-way through typing that the 'core' of Suzuki, Caufield, and Romanov just made it to the Stanely Cup Final? My word, this upcoming season will be a rough one.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

The Habs were the worst team in the NHL last year...again, teams know exactly who Mike Hoffman is.

He scores goals...teams will always want that.

The Habs had 2 players score 20 + goals last year...Hoffman had 15 in 67.

You said it yourself , teams knows who is Mike Hoffman. A lazy player who can't play defensively that cost 3x more than he produces. It's been known for years in the NHL.

Mike Hoffman is absolutely garbage outside the powerplay. He belongs into the 4th line in 5v5s. He's that bad on the ice when its not a powerplay.

He's even worst than Tatar defensively and Tatar was awful.

Also the newcomer Dadonov is as bad as Hoffman defensively. If you think you gonna fetch something semi relevant for those 2 you are completely wrong.

 

[McGees]

This guy is a clown but here it is anyway

 

[CHarlie]

You said it yourself , teams knows who is Mike Hoffman. A lazy player who can't play defensively that cost 3x more than he produces. It's been known for years in the NHL.

Mike Hoffman is absolutely garbage outside the powerplay. He belongs into the 4th line in 5v5s. He's that bad on the ice when its not a powerplay.

He's even worst than Tatar defensively and Tatar was awful.

Also the newcomer Dadonov is as bad as Hoffman defensively. If you think you gonna fetch something semi relevant for those 2 you are completely wrong.

I know what those two will hopefully fetch......a top 5 pick next year!

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

This guy is a clown but here it is anyway

but .. we were told that the 5th season was gonna be the good one!!!! This can't be!

 

[Rapala]

I saw that offer on Capfriendly from a fans from Philly and I would personally do it if it was on the table:

To Philly:
Mike Hoffman
4th round pick

To MTL
James Van Riemsdyk
3rd round pick 2023

Lol Can you imagine the Hoff and Torts.

 

[Heineman Mineman]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]CAUFIELD[/TD]
[TD]SUZUKI[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Pitlick[/TD]

[TD]EVANS[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roy[/TD]

[TD]POEHLING[/TD]
[TD]YLONEN[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
EXTRAS:

When you look at that centre lineup you realize the pick has to be wright or Cooley

Although I also prefer Wright, I edited Agalloch's post to better show how I see the forward lines. When looked at this way, it's clear as day that BPA is the only way to pick. On D, there would be more names in the table, but there's still a top pair offensive D missing in there

 

[Agalloch]

Although I also prefer Wright, I edited Agalloch's post to better show how I see the forward lines. When looked at this way, it's clear as day that BPA is the only way to pick. On D, there would be more names in the table, but there's still a top pair offensive D missing in there

My lineup was for 22-23 season but I expect players like Dvorak, Dadonov, Anderson to be here until a young player take their places.

 

[ReHabs]

You do realize that Montreal has just completed a hypothetical year one of a rebuild and you're already posting walls of text about how even a single extra year where the team isn't competing will be a disaster. Let go of the MB-era fear of failure by p*ssing away the future to compete now at all costs. Huh, that somehow still reminds me of the MB era.

Also, building up experience of winning in the playoffs? Are you a new fan or did you forget half-way through typing that the 'core' of Suzuki, Caufield, and Romanov just made it to the Stanely Cup Final? My word, this upcoming season will be a rough one.

1) I never said they have to “compete” next year. It’ll be next to impossible to compete with the big teams, in any case. We don’t have the players or the pieces.

2) Acquiring 25 year old star players without giving up significant roster pieces is not and will never be something Bergevin did. Not whatsoever. No comparison.

3) Trading draft picks for RFAs is generally a good gamble. Rarely done because the RFA has much more value than a mere draft pick.

4) I think I laid my argument rather well (and it is an essay I’ve been developing for my blog). The future is far closer than it seems, and also far less certain. A full rebuild requires building. Once all the bad contracts are gone is NOT the time to start looking for top players to acquire, it has to be done in increments and with an eye on the clock.

If the Habs can develop players completely in-house that would be terrific but the empirical proof informs us that the Habs have become terrible at that.

5) Look at the age profiles. If we think we will only compete in 2028, then okay. I do not want to wait that long — sorry.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

This guy is a clown but here it is anyway

Clowns serve a purpose.

This f***ing guy doesn't.

 

[Heineman Mineman]

My lineup was for 22-23 season but I expect players like Dvorak, Dadonov, Anderson to be here until a young player take their places.

I got that, my post was more a reply to CDN, it was quicker to just quote you and edit the table than doin it myself

I'm just saying that we shouldn't look at what's missing in the lineup now to define what position we'd bette pick. There's a hole at every important position atm

 

[The Great Weal]

There's no chance Hughes retains on Hoffman/Petry unless we get a kings ransom. We don't have to trade either guy.

 

[Agalloch]

I got that, my post was more a reply to CDN, it was quicker to just quote you and edit the table than doin it myself

I'm just saying that we shouldn't look at what's missing in the lineup now to define what position we'd bette pick. There's a hole at every important position atm

Agree. I would go with Slaf but I like Wright too. To be honest, I hope we draft our elite C at the 2023 NHL Entry Draft....

 

[SwiftyHab]

This guy is a clown but here it is anyway

I’ve got a source close to the Habs brass who says that Drouin won’t play a single game for the Habs next year.

 

[McGees]

I’ve got a source close to the Habs brass who says that Drouin won’t play a single game for the Habs next year.

You actually do or just making fun of that dude?

 

[26Mats]

Possible of course, but it's not a certainty. The Habs have 12 NHL forwards under contract, 13 if you want to include Ylonen. Add Rem Pitlick and Pezzetta who are unsigned RFA. Wright will be in the mix too. So that's maximum 16 players for 12 starting spots and 14 roster spots. Poehling and Ylonen are still waiver exempt. There will be injuries, Wright might get sent back to junior, maybe it takes a while to sign Pitlick. Dadonov, Drouin, and Byron will probably have more value in a trade at the deadline than this offseason, and we'll need bodies for roster spots after they are gone. So it wouldn't surpise me if we don't see a winger traded in the offseason. If it happens, it won't be out of necessity, it will be because a good deal was available.

This is all assuming that Petry will be traded in the offseason to make room under the cap for everyone else currently under contract and for the RFAs.


Trading Petry solves that problem.

I don't think Poehling is waiver exempt.

Even without Wright and Ylonen:

Caufield Suzuki Hoffman
Dadonov Dvorak Gallagher
R. Pitlick Evans Byron
Anderson Poehling Armia
Drouin

There's no way any of those 13 forwards should start the year in the press box.
Plus Pez and T. Pitlick are ideal 13th and 14th forwards.

I suppose it is possible if Price is on LTIR to go into the season with all those 13 forwards I listed. But if he's not injured, one has to be moved for cap reasons alone.

I’ve got a source close to the Habs brass who says that Drouin won’t play a single game for the Habs next year.

How's that going to happen, trade with 50% retained?

As it stands, the Habs can’t afford to renew Romanov and Pitlick this offseason. Hoffman’s palatable 4.5M/2yrs can go along way to remedy this situation if shipped elsewhere. A likelier scenario than trading Armia’s 3.4M for 3 years. Ideally, the Habs would trade both!

Price has to go on LTIR or one of the plethora of wingers need to be moved. If Armia and Hoffman can't be moved, I think Anderson can.

 

[1909]

I don't think Poehling is waiver exempt.

Even without Wright and Ylonen:

Caufield Suzuki Hoffman
Dadonov Dvorak Gallagher
R. Pitlick Evans Byron
Anderson Poehling Armia
Drouin

There's no way any of those 13 forwards should start the year in the press box.
Plus Pez and T. Pitlick are ideal 13th and 14th forwards.

I suppose it is possible if Price is on LTIR to go into the season with all those 13 forwards I listed. But if he's not injured, one has to be moved for cap reasons alone.


How's that going to happen, trade with 50% retained?


Price has to go on LTIR or one of the plethora of wingers need to be moved. If Armia and Hoffman can't be moved, I think Anderson can.

Armia has some value. Hoffman is a headache.

With Petry and Armia gone, Habs will have some breathing space under the cap.

I don't think Poehling is waiver exempt.

Even without Wright and Ylonen:

Caufield Suzuki Hoffman
Dadonov Dvorak Gallagher
R. Pitlick Evans Byron
Anderson Poehling Armia
Drouin

There's no way any of those 13 forwards should start the year in the press box.
Plus Pez and T. Pitlick are ideal 13th and 14th forwards.

I suppose it is possible if Price is on LTIR to go into the season with all those 13 forwards I listed. But if he's not injured, one has to be moved for cap reasons alone.


How's that going to happen, trade with 50% retained?


Price has to go on LTIR or one of the plethora of wingers need to be moved. If Armia and Hoffman can't be moved, I think Anderson can.

Anderson won't play on a 4th line ! Byron could have to retire. he is done physically. And Drouin will play...or else !

 

[Agalloch]

I don't think Poehling is waiver exempt.

Even without Wright and Ylonen:

Caufield Suzuki Hoffman
Dadonov Dvorak Gallagher
R. Pitlick Evans Byron
Anderson Poehling Armia
Drouin

There's no way any of those 13 forwards should start the year in the press box.
Plus Pez and T. Pitlick are ideal 13th and 14th forwards.

I suppose it is possible if Price is on LTIR to go into the season with all those 13 forwards I listed. But if he's not injured, one has to be moved for cap reasons alone.


How's that going to happen, trade with 50% retained?


Price has to go on LTIR or one of the plethora of wingers need to be moved. If Armia and Hoffman can't be moved, I think Anderson can.

Caufield Suzuki Hoffman
Dadonov Dvorak Gallagher
R. Pitlick Evans Byron
Anderson Poehling Armia
Drouin

I expect these 3 to be gone this summer and replaced with Ylonen, Wright/Slaf and Harvey-Pinard

Hoffman for salary dump and prospect
Armia for picks
Drouin (retained) for picks

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

Crazy how we can be this bad and have zero cap

 

[BLONG7]

Armia has some value. Hoffman is a headache.

With Petry and Armia gone, Habs will have some breathing space under the cap.


Anderson won't play on a 4th line ! Byron could have to retire. he is done physically. And Drouin will play...or else !

Drouin will play or else?? What does that mean......................?
He hasn't played much in the last 2-3 seasons, and now he has TWO limp wrists? Can't shoot, wont go to the net....quite the player.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Crazy how we can be this bad and have zero cap

**I am not responsible for you punching your monitor, or phone**

 

[417]

what makes you say teams would have to overpay for Anderson?

Because I don't think the Habs want to move him, to do so, would require an overpayment from another team imo.

Drouin and Byron will only get moved as UFA's if they actual play well enough/stay healthy enough for teams to think they'll help them. Matthew Perreault lost all his value last year, and Max Domi went for next to nothing. And he's a much better player than Drouin.

I don't disagree here

You said it yourself , teams knows who is Mike Hoffman. A lazy player who can't play defensively that cost 3x more than he produces. It's been known for years in the NHL.

Mike Hoffman is absolutely garbage outside the powerplay. He belongs into the 4th line in 5v5s. He's that bad on the ice when its not a powerplay.

He's even worst than Tatar defensively and Tatar was awful.

Also the newcomer Dadonov is as bad as Hoffman defensively. If you think you gonna fetch something semi relevant for those 2 you are completely wrong.

I never said anything about what they would get in return.

I just don't agree that he would be difficult to trade.

Not like i'm expecting a 1st round pick back

 

[morhilane]

This guy is a clown but here it is anyway

Amusingly, he's just reporting a month old comment (May 15th) from the real clown with sources: El Cloun.

El Cloun is the account who broke MSL becoming HC and he said LeCavalier was going to join 9 days before it was official.