HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[26Mats]

That's quite general isn't it? Caufield was taken 15th, does that eliminate him from being good?


Struble might get sent down as he has options. We have to protect Harris and Barron. If Hutson makes team.

I feel bad for Struble if he gets sent down. But at the end of the day, he can still learn a lot at this stage of his career in the AHL. He can perfect the finner points of his defensive game, as well as grow his offensive game. Same with Xhekaj.

Barron is a NHL D on skating alone, the issue is that in is zone or without the puck he is a lot more hesitant and less confident… that should get better with experience. I understand that he isn’t perfect but I don’t see the point of try to get rid of him just to get rid of him…

He still has to learn somethings to become a good NHL dman. Time will tell if he can learn them.

 

[Jack Skellington]

I think giving up on Barron now would be like, just as an example; if Winnipeg gave up on Morrissey at 22. Now there's no guarantee or even a good chance he develops the same way, but with dmen, especially ones with good pedigrees as prospects, good size, and good skating, you should try to hold on to them for as long as possible to see if there's anything there. It takes dmen a while sometimes.

Obviously there's a point where, like with Beaulieu, it just becomes clear that he doesn't have it, but I don't think Barron is at that point yet.

 

[Miller Time]

I think giving up on Barron now would be like, just as an example; if Winnipeg gave up on Morrissey at 22. Now there's no guarantee or even a good chance he develops the same way, but with dmen, especially ones with good pedigrees as prospects, good size, and good skating, you should try to hold on to them for as long as possible to see if there's anything there. It takes dmen a while sometimes.

Obviously there's a point where, like with Beaulieu, it just becomes clear that he doesn't have it, but I don't think Barron is at that point yet.

Well said.

I find it hilarious that some posters try to equate Barron & Beaulieu just because both were relatively big strong skating dmen. The comparisons literally end there. They don't play a similar game at all, and, Barron has already demonstrated considerably better ability to translate his skills to NHL impact.

Heck, Barron has already matched Bealieu's career goals total (12g in 471 games) in less than 100 games (12g in 94 games)... And almost trippled his NHL output through their respective D4 seasons (30pts : 13pts).

I get the frustration & ptsd from over a decade of squandered prospect development... Beaulieu, Galch, Scherbak, LeBlanc, McCarron, JKO & on & on. But people need to let the past go, or at least try to not let their jaded emotions clog up every thread with chicken-little hot takes.

Barron remains a player with lots of upside. Wether he figures it all out or not, with us or not, is to be determined... But it has zero to do with Beaulieu or Thrower or Nygren or any other prospect we once hoped might turn into a top 4 stalwart for us.

 

[Rapala]

I think giving up on Barron now would be like, just as an example; if Winnipeg gave up on Morrissey at 22. Now there's no guarantee or even a good chance he develops the same way, but with dmen, especially ones with good pedigrees as prospects, good size, and good skating, you should try to hold on to them for as long as possible to see if there's anything there. It takes dmen a while sometimes.

Obviously there's a point where, like with Beaulieu, it just becomes clear that he doesn't have it, but I don't think Barron is at that point yet.

Yeah the whole Beaulieu comparison is laughable Barron the person is nothing like Nathan Beaulieu.
Nathan Beaulieu went completely off the rails after showing decent promise and was never able to conquer his demons.
If Barron doesn't pan out it will certainly not be because of off ice antics.

 

[HabsForHire]

I'd move barron for McGroarty in a second...barron is getting so overhyped on here

 

[Jaynki]

I'd move barron for McGroarty in a second...barron is getting so overhyped on here

Ainec.

Barron + 2025 1st.

But mainly because we have Mailloux and Reinbacher.

Barron might still turn it around tho.

 

[Rapala]

I'd move barron for McGroarty in a second...barron is getting so overhyped on here

Maybe the unproven McGroarty is the one getting over-hyped. A player with edge but no edges.

A player making demands that probably doesn't sit well with the team first approach our management is insisting upon.

For me the argument is all about offering a LD from a position of strength because if Barron is enough Harris and or Struble should also be enough.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

We have Mailloux and Reinbacher at RD, but that leaves us with the 3rd pairing RD spot open. So we shouldn't trade Barron until he's clearly not going to be part of the future top 6 or if he can be packaged for a good forward. We should also look to trade Harris instead of Barron.

 

[Egresch]

No need to get rid of Barron, I think people are too harsh on him. He is not blocking anyone and we can keep him as 3RD with
Matheson- Guhle
Hutson- Savard
Xhekaj- Barron

I think Hughes will trade Harris. In case of injuries- Struble, Reinbacher and Mailloux will be ready to step up from Laval. Savard will be traded at TDL and opportunity will be given to Mailloux/Reinbacher.
Barron will need bit more time, but look at guys like Forsling, Montour, Ekholm, Morrisey and many more just needed time til 25 to really make the next step.

 

[ReHabs]

The poverty mentality among the fanbase is incredibly strange. We might as well not trade anyone until he proves without any doubt that he's exhausted the entirety of his potential and has therefore no trade value or interest with a potential trade partner.

Other teams swap players all the time, while ours has to strain and feel like it is pulling teeth whenever a non-roster player in a position of excess like Barron is proposed as part of a trade to get a roster-upgrade in a position of need.

 

[Miller Time]

The poverty mentality among the fanbase is incredibly strange. We might as well not trade anyone until he proves without any doubt that he's exhausted the entirety of his potential and has therefore no trade value or interest with a potential trade partner.

Other teams swap players all the time, while ours has to strain and feel like it is pulling teeth whenever a non-roster player in a position of excess like Barron is proposed as part of a trade to get a roster-upgrade in a position of need.

Or, perhaps some posters just don't subscribe to the video game mentality of trading assets just for the sake of it

Last time I checked, Ken Hughes had no problem "swapping players"... 28 player trades in 30 months on the job, actually.

Bad proposals get panned because they are bad, not much more to it... No need to invent silly narratives to explain away why some posters don't share your take.

Maybe try having a better take instead

 

[ReHabs]

Or, perhaps some posters just don't subscribe to the video game mentality of trading assets just for the sake of it

Every trade is for the sake of making a trade. Tautology.

Last time I checked, Ken Hughes had no problem "swapping players"... 28 player trades in 30 months on the job, actually.

Unlike this fanbase, Kent Hughes seems to understand being a tight-fisted miser doesn't get you anywhere but he's also not built a winning team yet. In any case, selling players in a firesale/rebuild is much simpler than improving a roster by acquiring them. Hughes got rinsed on the Lehkonen trade but the relative harm is much less impactful than the reverse situation: if he gave up quality prospects to acquire a roster player who then fell flat-on-his-face. Bergevin was afraid of getting those deals wrong but I hope Hughes is more brave -- our players deserve a chance to win.

To improve a roster you have to swap assets for roster-upgrades, that means the other side has to see sufficient value in what is offered in the exchange. It's not 'giving up on Barron' it's quite literally 'trading him [to a team that sees value in him] to acquire a player [in whom we see value]' -- it's a world of difference. And what's the kicker here is Barron couldn't secure a spot on one of the worst d-corps in the NHL, so it's not like he's particularly valuable as an NHL player in the first place. Many here seem to bristle at the notion "you have to give [something valuable] to get [something valuable]", hence 'poverty mentality'.

 

[ReHabs]

You and I are looking at this through a different lense.

You’re looking at today, I’m looking at tomorrow.

We’re not winning anything today. Start looking at things longer term. You’re standing too close to the wall. Take ten steps back and you’ll be able to see the whole picture.

The discussion isn't to propose trading any of Dach, Roy, or Newhook away -- is it? So I don't understand your response.

[Assuming that McGroarty is viewed as a NHL-worthy player] Adding a roster player to one of the weakest rosters in the NHL, one riddled with non-NHLers or waiver-tier players, shouldn't cause so much consternation.

[Assuming that McGroarty is viewed as a future NHL player] Adding a forward prospect to one of the weakest forward prospect pools in the NHL, one riddled with hopeless prospects like Riley Kidney and Sean Farrell, shouldn't cause so much consternation.

Panthers had their big 3, then added Tarasenko at the deadline. Their cup winning depth at forward wasn't built on guys that were "proven" in their early 20's...

Panthers horse-traded like the best of 'em to get the team with which they ran -- that includes one of their Big 3.

Do you think they made trades for the sake of making trades? Or is that just a Habs thing you don't want the Habs to do?

We already have a solid top six.

Are you looking at tomorrow in this comment or are you looking at today?

Today: we have a terrible top six.
Tomorrow: we have an unproven top six.

Adding another (future or present) middle6 forward to a middle6 that has Anderson and/or Gallagher and/or Dvorak and/or Armia in it should not cause so much concern.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'd move barron for McGroarty in a second...barron is getting so overhyped on here

It's not like that. The point some are making with Barron is he is still in development and Dmen take longer. His goal scoring for someone who don't play full time is impressive. He's struggling in an area that can be taught... Trust/maturity in his own end.

 

[BLONG7]

Maybe the unproven McGroarty is the one getting over-hyped. A player with edge but no edges.

A player making demands that probably doesn't sit well with the team first approach our management is insisting upon.

For me the argument is all about offering a LD from a position of strength because if Barron is enough Harris and or Struble should also be enough.

Well said...........

 

[Habs Halifax]

Maybe the unproven McGroarty is the one getting over-hyped. A player with edge but no edges.

A player making demands that probably doesn't sit well with the team first approach our management is insisting upon.

For me the argument is all about offering a LD from a position of strength because if Barron is enough Harris and or Struble should also be enough.

No doubt, McGroarty is a A- type prospect but have we forgotten about Borgstrom when we were talking Patch trades? Borgstrom's NCAA numbers are just as impressive as McGroarty. McGroarty could turn into a real top 6F hit or not. Many conversations or trade value I see are fans penciling him as a sure shot top 6F. He doesn't have that kind of trade value.

Interested but not desperate. I want Laine to join the Habs and MSL to mentor him. Suzuki would turn Laine into a 40+ goal guy again.

 

[Andy]

We might as well not trade anyone until he proves without any doubt that he's exhausted the entirety of his potential and has therefore no trade value or interest with a potential trade partner.

The good ol' MB special!

 

[HABitual Fan]

The poverty mentality among the fanbase is incredibly strange. We might as well not trade anyone until he proves without any doubt that he's exhausted the entirety of his potential and has therefore no trade value or interest with a potential trade partner.

Other teams swap players all the time, while ours has to strain and feel like it is pulling teeth whenever a non-roster player in a position of excess like Barron is proposed as part of a trade to get a roster-upgrade in a position of need.

I have no problem with your premise of trading from a position of excess like undersized forwards, but how is RD a position of excess when the team only has 2 with NHL experience and is forced to play Guhle on his wrong side to ice 3 of them? I think trading Kova was actually a vote of confidence in Barron.

 

[ReHabs]

I have no problem with your premise of trading from a position of excess like undersized forwards, but how is RD a position of excess when the team only has 2 with NHL experience and is forced to play Guhle on his wrong side to ice 3 of them? I think trading Kova was actually a vote of confidence in Barron.

I don't think Kovacevic is germane to the discussion. Barron has upside, we just need to figure out if it's worth betting on or not, whilst Kovacevic is a late-bloomer and seems to be what he is. RD in the NHL isn't a position of excess but Barron is not yet an NHL RD, if you compare him against our entire RD depth I think he is lost in the shuffle: Reinbacher and Mailloux have (at least) just as much upside and more runway.

Is Barron capable of playing 3rd RD in the NHL behind Savard and Guhle? If he shows it at camp, sure, but he wasn't capable of doing it last year.
Is it worth not trading him for aclear roster-upgrade for another position (ie forward)? No, I don't think so.

 

[morhilane]

I have no problem with your premise of trading from a position of excess like undersized forwards, but how is RD a position of excess when the team only has 2 with NHL experience and is forced to play Guhle on his wrong side to ice 3 of them? I think trading Kova was actually a vote of confidence in Barron.

More a "we need a spot for him in the line-up since he's not waiver exempt anymore" kind of vote.

 

[HabzSauce]

The poverty mentality among the fanbase is incredibly strange. We might as well not trade anyone until he proves without any doubt that he's exhausted the entirety of his potential and has therefore no trade value or interest with a potential trade partner.

Other teams swap players all the time, while ours has to strain and feel like it is pulling teeth whenever a non-roster player in a position of excess like Barron is proposed as part of a trade to get a roster-upgrade in a position of need.

You're completely missing the point. Posters have explained themselves with good reason why holding on to Barron might be a good idea for now - I'm sure you've read those so no idea why you're ignoring that logic to take a shot. Has nothing to do with "poverty mentality".

If there's a trade that makes sense sure you trade him. He's not untouchable - far from it and I haven't seen anyone here implying he is. And with how crap people seem to think he is, I'm not sure what they're expecting back even if we were to trade him, so what's the point?

The guy is a whopping 22 years old....plays RD, good size and clearly has ability. Might as well roll the dice and see if he can seize the opportunity this year since we're already short on RD. It would make far more sense to move Harris since we have way too many LD. Not a young RD thats still trying to put it together....

Keeping Barron for now may turn out to be a pleasant surprise this year that can either A) improve his trade value if we still want to trade him, or B) become a long term stay on our roster. Those are both good outcomes. No need to move him just yet

 

[HABitual Fan]

More a "we need a spot for him in the line-up since he's not waiver exempt anymore" kind of vote.

Of course that plays into it, but the team still needs to find a RD for 25-26 even if you pencil in both Rein and Mailloux. No harm in letting a 22 year old develop and get consistent playing time to see if he can be that guy.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The discussion isn't to propose trading any of Dach, Roy, or Newhook away -- is it? So I don't understand your response.

So only forwards count? We shouldn't care about blueline prospects?

[Assuming that McGroarty is viewed as a NHL-worthy player] Adding a roster player to one of the weakest rosters in the NHL, one riddled with non-NHLers or waiver-tier players, shouldn't cause so much consternation.

Again, you aren't getting it.

It's not a weak roster, it's a rebuilding roster. At best McG would be a 2nd liner. We've already got that talent in our line up coming up.

 

[Vachon23]

So only forwards count? We shouldn't care about blueline prospects?

Again, you aren't getting it.

It's not a weak roster, it's a rebuilding roster. At best McG would be a 2nd liner. We've already got that talent in our line up coming up.

Who plays a style of game like he goes though in our lineup/prospect pool ?

 

[Deebs]

Yost: Los Angeles Kings positioned to be an offer sheet target | TSN

Quietly, the Los Angeles Kings have been navigating a challenging off-season with regards to the salary cap. Travis Yost explains how the Kings could be targeted by another club with cap space this summer.

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