HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[sampollock]

Laine. 2 year term is manageable and assets to acquire would be something we can afford.

Ducks and Canes are asking too much for Necas and Zegras. Looks like they are after a hockey trade and we are interested in using our futures or parts we can spare.

McGroarty likely doesn't fill our top 6 hole right away but would be a good add to our F pool.

Laine makes the most sense to me.

I agree.. 2 years is not a drowning contract

 

[Frankenheimer]

I expect that Laine will exit the assistance program when there is a deal in place and not before. He'll use as leverage to get traded.

 

[Scintillating10]

A 2nd line that has a 32 ppg guy on it is not good in the present.

That's not sufficient production in the present. We have a bad team in the present partially because these are our 2nd liners and this is their production.

I like Roy's potential and I've been keen to see him in the NHL. I don't think the Habs should avoid adding a physical middle6 player simply because Roy and his 32pt pace is on the roster. Dach has not shown he is a reliable player in terms of health. Newhook has not shown he can pierce through a certain scoring threshold (scoring/TOI).

In the present they would not be a 2nd line of a contending team. Adding a challenger for a spot on the top6 shouldn't be something our bad team with a bad roster should shy away from -- at the very least it will bump someone down to third line, which is a sign of good depth.

Hage is years away, Beck is closer but no one expects him to be more than a middle6 player (valuable as that is, he is not projected to be a top line player), and Demidov is taken for granted -- once he joins and does as well as we hope he can do, we will see a 2nd line with one of Slaf or Caufield on it... now that's a sign of good depth. You're basically taking the counting chickens thing and turbocharging it. We shouldn't be shy to add forward depth even if all our forwards are on track to improve -- injuries, contract disputes, and the inevitable 'hitting the wall' can all happen.


At the NHL level it's no good but I don't think Barron moves the needle in the NHL much at all. He needs more AHL time and that means taking time from Mailloux and Reinbacher, both of whom are more relevant to the Habs' future and as valuable depth. Maybe if one of the other two makes the jump to the NHL... but then again that explicitly means they've lapped Barron.


I know what bad faith is:

Bad faith: tilting against something I never argued.

There's been many arguments made that Barron should be retained on account of his untapped upside. That's the discussion.

As for strawman and bad faith... can you finally stop saying "trade for the sake of making a trade" or is that too much to ask?

I have not said or implied Hughes lacks courage or conviction, once again you're making a BS argument. Bad faith: citing the number of trades made by certain GMs and then immediately dismissing the number of trades as a relevant metric. Not bad faith though, is it?

We give young guys a good chance. Habs will either take step ahead or draft high in next draft. Lol

Either way 20 million coming off the books next summer and Demidov be here.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Is he not in the NHL assistance program? For drug/alcohol related issues? I’d imagine it’s just because he likes to have fun, not some type of dependency? And I assume people become dependent because their lives are so wonderful and they are so happy? He’s not in the right frame of mind to be scrutinized every time he touches the ice, that much is obvious. This isn’t the place for him. Paying $9m a year for a guy that plays 50 games and needs babysitting is just poor team building.

So you got nothing. I don't know where it was reported either that he had drug/alcohol issues either.

Please stfu about shit you don't know going forward..

 

[WeThreeKings]

which guy you figure they should try for? Necas?

Of anyone rumored he's actually produced and doesn't suck defensively.

 

[Sorinth]

A 2nd line that has a 32 ppg guy on it is not good in the present.

The 6th most productive forward for the cup winning Panthers had 39 points in 80 games. Having a 30 point player as your #6 forward is pretty normal and doesn't say much at all about whether you are a good or bad team.

 

[Whalers Fan]

I'm not a fan of bumping CC off the top line after taking a team-friendly deal. Especially for Laine, with all his baggage.

Agreed. I do not understand all the suggestions I keep seeing to separate Suzuki and Caufield. They seem to have great chemistry together, and are both part of the long term core. Why all the casual comments to break them up?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Laine makes too much sense.
- He won't cost much to acquire and the habs can easily afford his complete cap hit
- He's an incredible talent, and could be our best forward.
- He's 6'5 215 lbs so he adds a lot of size to the lineup.
- He will help our horrible pp, and gives us another elite sniper. Both Suzuki and Dach can have an elite goalscorer on their wing.
- He's only 26 years old, so he could be part of the core
- He only has 2 years left, so if it doesn't work out, then you're not stuck with him for long.

 

[Canadienna]

Laine makes too much sense.
- He won't cost much
- He's an incredible talent, and could be our best forward.
- He's 6'5 215 lbs so he adds a lot of size to the lineup.
- He will help our horrible pp, and gives us another elite sniper. Both Suzuki and Dach can have an elite goalscorer on their wing.
- He's only 26 years old, so he could be part of the core
- He only has 2 years left, so if it doesn't work out, then you're not stuck with him for long.

The fly in the ointment is the mental health and MTL spotlight aspect.

Not saying that ruins the fit, because we don't know what Laine thinks of it. My read on Hughes and Gorton is that based on the value they placed on confidence and mental resiliency with their draft picks, they would want to ensure that the spotlight would bring out the best in Laine before bringing him on.

At that point it goes beyond hockey fit and you wouldn't want to put someone in a bad situation and potentially have another Drouin type situation.

 

[BLONG7]

The fly in the ointment is the mental health and MTL spotlight aspect.

Not saying that ruins the fit, because we don't know what Laine thinks of it. My read on Hughes and Gorton is that based on the value they placed on confidence and mental resiliency with their draft picks, they would want to ensure that the spotlight would bring out the best in Laine before bringing him on.

At that point it goes beyond hockey fit and you wouldn't want to put someone in a bad situation and potentially have another Drouin type situation.

We have a very good organization now, who take their on and off ice responsibilities very serious.
We have had no issues with the younger core who are all making some serious coin now, and others will follow.
Culture..................is something he could become part of, and kids and vets all could be of help,

I think the nightlife in other cities can be even crazier, and pretty much crickets from other cities about their core star players, so............

 

[Sterling Archer]

I expect that Laine will exit the assistance program when there is a deal in place and not before. He'll use as leverage to get traded.

Zero chance of that happening. Teams will want to talk to him before trading for him. The hold up is teams can’t talk to him until he’s out of the program.

 

[1909]

Habs have huge hole(s) on Dach’s wings. Perron would had been a good short term solution. Can Anderson rebound ? Is Roy ready enough to play on a second wing ? Will Newhook accept to play on a wing while he seemed to like playing at center much more ?

 

[ReHabs]

The 6th most productive forward for the cup winning Panthers had 39 points in 80 games. Having a 30 point player as your #6 forward is pretty normal and doesn't say much at all about whether you are a good or bad team.

Until Demidov takes over the team, the Habs seem to be built to be scoring by committee rather than top-heavy like FLA that also has legendary-tier goaltending. Normal teams don't win the Stanley Cup... very good ones do.

2024: Winners FLA had a 56 goal scoring two-way player and a total 3 PPG players this season (the Habs have had 0 PPG players in 16 years). 6th highest scoring Evan Rodrigues' 39 (in 80) was supplemented by the addition of Tarasenko and his 14 (in 19) btw. GM Zito knew he needed more firepower.

2023: Winners VGK had PPG Jack Eichel and their 6th most productive forward was Mark Stone with 38 (in 43), 5th was Karlsson 53 (in 82), 7th was Kessel with 36 (in 82), but 8th was Roy with 30 (in 65)
2022: Winners COL, their 5th highest scoring forward was Landeskog with 59 (in 51), 6th highest scoring forward Nichushkin had 52 (in 62), 7th Newhook had 33 (in 71) (they found him underproductive and traded him for picks later to the Habs), 8th Compher had 33 (in 70).
2022: Out of curiosity I took a look at TBL... Not including Paul who they got at the deadline, their 5th highest scoring forward Palat got 49 (in 77), 6th Cirelli got 43 (in 76), 7th Colton got 39 (in 79) and 8th was Perry who got 40 (in 82)

So yeah, I maintain having a 30pt 6th highest scoring forward and no c. 90pt top-line forwards is a bad spread. FLA only got by with legendary goaltending in the first place. If Demidov becomes a big beast that's awesome but a 30pt 6th forward is nevertheless likely to be insufficient if we don't have another legendary goaltender to make up for the lack of scoring depth.

In summary: we need more scoring depth than we currently have.

 

[ReHabs]

We give young guys a good chance. Habs will either take step ahead or draft high in next draft. Lol

Either way 20 million coming off the books next summer and Demidov be here.

I'm much more sanguine about the coming season than I was about the past season. Picking up a sorely needed offensive talent prospect like Demidov is certainly a nice feeling but even Hage is promising. It feels like in the very near future we'll be able to add oomph to our roster... it's been a very long time since we've had this feeling imo.

As for the coming season, it's perfectly fine to continue giving the young guys a good chance but it needs to lead somewhere. Hopefully some players (Dach, Newhook, Caufield) take the opportunity and show more than they have so far. We'll be a much better team if they all improve as much as we know they can.

The 20m coming off the books will be such a relief... until July 1st and the spending begins lol

 

[BLONG7]

Would love to see the bold move, of getting Laine................2 years, low risk. Very high reward.

 

[Benstheman]

I’m definitely on board with getting Laine. Won’t cost much and two years is nothing. The downsides for the Habs are almost inexistent.

The upsides can change Habs future in a big way. And he is still 26 yo. I think the situation fits the Habs like a glove.

 

[Sorinth]

The fly in the ointment is the mental health and MTL spotlight aspect.

Not saying that ruins the fit, because we don't know what Laine thinks of it. My read on Hughes and Gorton is that based on the value they placed on confidence and mental resiliency with their draft picks, they would want to ensure that the spotlight would bring out the best in Laine before bringing him on.

At that point it goes beyond hockey fit and you wouldn't want to put someone in a bad situation and potentially have another Drouin type situation.

Yeah there's basically no way you trade for Laine without first talking to him and figuring out whether it's going to be a healthy environment for him or not.

For sure MTL can be a problem when it comes to pressure and mental health, but on the plus side he wouldn't be coming in as a star/saviour which is much different from the Drouin situation. On top of which the support network is probably better now, MSL as coach makes a difference, Armia being around probably helps, the teams star players bringing a positive atmosphere instead of the bullying he faced in Winnipeg. There's plenty of reasons to think it would work here, but again it's dependent on having a conversation with him and figuring things out.

 

[Sorinth]

Until Demidov takes over the team, the Habs seem to be built to be scoring by committee rather than top-heavy like FLA that also has legendary-tier goaltending. Normal teams don't win the Stanley Cup... very good ones do.

2024: Winners FLA had a 56 goal scoring two-way player and a total 3 PPG players this season (the Habs have had 0 PPG players in 16 years). 6th highest scoring Evan Rodrigues' 39 (in 80) was supplemented by the addition of Tarasenko and his 14 (in 19) btw. GM Zito knew he needed more firepower.

2023: Winners VGK had PPG Jack Eichel and their 6th most productive forward was Mark Stone with 38 (in 43), 5th was Karlsson 53 (in 82), 7th was Kessel with 36 (in 82), but 8th was Roy with 30 (in 65)
2022: Winners COL, their 5th highest scoring forward was Landeskog with 59 (in 51), 6th highest scoring forward Nichushkin had 52 (in 62), 7th Newhook had 33 (in 71) (they found him underproductive and traded him for picks later to the Habs), 8th Compher had 33 (in 70).
2022: Out of curiosity I took a look at TBL... Not including Paul who they got at the deadline, their 5th highest scoring forward Palat got 49 (in 77), 6th Cirelli got 43 (in 76), 7th Colton got 39 (in 79) and 8th was Perry who got 40 (in 82)

So yeah, I maintain having a 30pt 6th highest scoring forward and no c. 90pt top-line forwards is a bad spread. FLA only got by with legendary goaltending in the first place. If Demidov becomes a big beast that's awesome but a 30pt 6th forward is nevertheless likely to be insufficient if we don't have another legendary goaltender to make up for the lack of scoring depth.

In summary: we need more scoring depth than we currently have.

But there's a big gap between being a bad team and being a cup winner, so yeah we aren't winning the cup with todays offence (Unless multiple huge breakouts occur). I only brought up Florida to show that looking at the depth scoring isn't the thing that seperates the good teams from the bad ones, it's the spots at the top of the roster that define whether you are a good team or not.

And really since the goal is to be a bubble team we should be looking at other bubble teams, so you want to look at teams like NYI, Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh, Washington, etc...

 

[ReHabs]

But there's a big gap between being a bad team and being a cup winner, so yeah we aren't winning the cup with todays offence (Unless multiple huge breakouts occur). I only brought up Florida to show that looking at the depth scoring isn't the thing that seperates the good teams from the bad ones, it's the spots at the top of the roster that define whether you are a good team or not.

And really since the goal is to be a bubble team we should be looking at other bubble teams, so you want to look at teams like NYI, Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh, Washington, etc...

Who said the goal is to be a bubble team?

If you trace the discussion back, I said we don’t have a particularly good or proven top6. Lafleurs Guy, ever the argumentative one, insisted that we do and therefore the acquisition of McGroarty is not interesting. I said Josh Roy’s 9pt rookie campaign and Newhook and Dach’s respective sub-40pt career highs do not make for a good enough second line in the present. Joshua Roy’s 32 pt pace came up in this context.

That’s where we are: in the pursuit of improving this team (with the intent to go beyond nearly being a bubble team) I believe we need to add at least one more top6 player and ideally two more over the coming 12 months. If it works well it will mean our middle6 will be terrific by the time Demidov comes in.

 

[le_sean]

So you got nothing. I don't know where it was reported either that he had drug/alcohol issues either.

Please stfu about shit you don't know going forward..

He literally said it was for his mental health. Sounds like you have just as much inability to accept that as he does inability to handle the pressure market of Columbus, Ohio

The man is depressed in a market that doesn’t even know what time games are on and they need a cannon at 250 decibels to wake people up after a goal and you want him in Montreal where reporters will whine about what clothes he wears

 

[Heffyhoof]

Laine makes too much sense.
- He won't cost much to acquire and the habs can easily afford his complete cap hit
- He's an incredible talent, and could be our best forward.
- He's 6'5 215 lbs so he adds a lot of size to the lineup.
- He will help our horrible pp, and gives us another elite sniper. Both Suzuki and Dach can have an elite goalscorer on their wing.
- He's only 26 years old, so he could be part of the core
- He only has 2 years left, so if it doesn't work out, then you're not stuck with him for long.

I don't mind acquiring depending on the price, but what is it with this constant grass is greener, our stuff is never as good as other people's stuff nonsense?

 

[HabbyGuy]

Who said the goal is to be a bubble team?

If you trace the discussion back, I said we don’t have a particularly good or proven top6. Lafleurs Guy, ever the argumentative one, insisted that we do and therefore the acquisition of McGroarty is not interesting. I said Josh Roy’s 9pt rookie campaign and Newhook and Dach’s respective sub-40pt career highs do not make for a good enough second line in the present. Joshua Roy’s 32 pt pace came up in this context.

That’s where we are: in the pursuit of improving this team (with the intent to go beyond nearly being a bubble team) I believe we need to add at least one more top6 player and ideally two more over the coming 12 months. If it works well it will mean our middle6 will be terrific by the time Demidov comes in.

To be fair, this whole forum is one big cyclical argument about what we think is best for our team. It's the nature of this medium.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Toby Krug is out they need a new LD PMD

 

[Sorinth]

Who said the goal is to be a bubble team?

It's the stated goal from management for this upcoming season.

If you trace the discussion back, I said we don’t have a particularly good or proven top6. Lafleurs Guy, ever the argumentative one, insisted that we do and therefore the acquisition of McGroarty is not interesting. I said Josh Roy’s 9pt rookie campaign and Newhook and Dach’s respective sub-40pt career highs do not make for a good enough second line in the present. Joshua Roy’s 32 pt pace came up in this context.

That’s where we are: in the pursuit of improving this team (with the intent to go beyond nearly being a bubble team) I believe we need to add at least one more top6 player and ideally two more over the coming 12 months. If it works well it will mean our middle6 will be terrific by the time Demidov comes in.

And McGroaty with his 0 NHL games addresses the "problem" of not having a proven top-6?

Assuming Roy, Dach, Newhook, and Slaf's final 50 game paces are actually representative of what they'll produce this year then yes our top-6 is decent to good depending on whether we are talking about making the playoffs vs contending. But you can't complain about how that it's unproven and then also claim that the answer is McGroarty and his 0 NHL points is just dumb. And longer term Demidov is almost assuredly going to push someone out of the top-6, so comparing McGroarty to the worst of Roy, Dach, Newhook is pointless. And I do like McGroarty and for the right price would be happy to add him, but I'm not sure I would bet on him being the best or 2nd best out of those three because all 4 have lots of potential and lots of ways to dissapoint.

 

[Bottle Rocket]

Toby Krug is out they need a new LD PMD

View attachment 895352

Toby Krug for Mitch Matheson