HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

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ReHabs

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I don't see the point in acquiring Laine. Yes we can afford the cap hit, but what does it accomplish? Are we trying to be competitive the next 2 years? Or continue with the rebuild? I'd think the latter.
We need to make progress and improve the team, otherwise the stink of stagnation can turn into the stench of failure. It's hard to powerwash that out, look at Arizona and Buffalo. The players who signed away their primes on relatively team-friendly deals want to see some success come their way.

Laine is a low-risk gambit to add a young goal-scorer with size to a roster that needs young goal-scorers with size.

The infinitely long rebuild doesn't exist nor should it exist. At this point, and going forward, we should be better than the year before.
 

Whalers Fan

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I don’t see any downside. If he plays well, we either extend him or trade him in two years for another top 6 player/prospect. If he plays bad, we send him down or trade him for peanuts or just wait out those two years. Seriously what’s the downside?
The downside would be the cost paid to acquire Laine if he fails in Montreal. So, it really depends on whether he could be acquired for pennies on the dollar, or if Columbus will only trade him for a solid return. Laine has missed significant time in each of the past four seasons, which would be my biggest concern -- not his salary.
 

417

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We need to make progress and improve the team, otherwise the stink of stagnation can turn into the stench of failure. It's hard to powerwash that out, look at Arizona and Buffalo. The players who signed away their primes on relatively team-friendly deals want to see some success come their way.

Laine is a low-risk gambit to add a young goal-scorer with size to a roster that needs young goal-scorers with size.

The infinitely long rebuild doesn't exist nor should it exist. At this point, and going forward, we should be better than the year before.
Agreed 100%, you can't keep thinking that another top 5-10 pick fixes things, it doesn't....the Ottawa Senators are another example of what a perpetual rebuild looks like.

We're at the stage that if the Habs are picking inside the top 5-10 again next summer, it means something isn't working in this rebuild.

The downside would be the cost paid to acquire Laine if he fails in Montreal. So, it really depends on whether he could be acquired for pennies on the dollar, or if Columbus will only trade him for a solid return. Laine has missed significant time in each of the past four seasons, which would be my biggest concern -- not his salary.
And it would be for any team acquiring him, not to mention his salary and off-ice issues...so it makes the Blue Jackets in a difficult position to expect him to have a trade return package like it's 2018-19 Patrik Laine.

Even now, teams who are interested are being told they have to wait until he's out of the program...that's not going to help his trade value.
 

B1g B1rd

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I’d be all in for a Laine acquisition at a reasonable cost. I’d just want to make sure it doesn’t affect the team chemistry they’re trying to build which, imo, is a big part of the rebuild. The team is the sum of the individuals.
 

junyab

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I see lots of downsides: often injured, known not to be the most loved teammate, bad on ice work-ethic, can't see Montreal's pressure cooker helpful to whatever mental issue he's dealing with
 

ReHabs

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We're at the stage that if the Habs are picking inside the top 5-10 again next summer, it means something isn't working in this rebuild.
My first reaction is to say: Good luck convincing Tankists of this!

My second reaction is: I don't expect a >top10 pick this coming year because Hughes hasn't, so far, improved the roster from last year's bottom5-10 roster.

Hotswap Monahan and Dach and it's pretty much the same... with less depth, actually.

There's plenty of time until October and I *do* expect to see some depth pieces added and even maybe another top6 forward but I don't think we can know for sure until the puck is dropped.
 

Captain Mountain

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Well yes, of course -- we have a bad team and fans want to horse-trade to get a better team. Hughes has been trading away players left and right as much as he could, and he doesn't look like stopping either.

So what? Posters on a hockey board discussing trades differ in opinion on who to trade and for who or what.

Well there is a lot of push-back against the notion of trading Barron regardless of the return. Barron.

Please show me the "push-back against the notion of trading Barron regardless of the return". Regardless of the return.

The push back against the notion of trading Barron is almost entirely because of what people think the return could be vs. what Barron the player could be.

You have it wrong. Weber was in his late 30s, Price was in his late 30s, Petry in his mid 30s, Suzuki under-proven, Gallagher cooked, and Danault allowed to leave -- that's not a core and never was. Bergevin's "small core" was not a core, it was just small because of how bad the rest of the roster was at all times.

Whilst having massive gaps in the core positions, Bergevin was investing 6 years in the likes of Andrew Shaw and handing out big contracts to Alzner and Anderson and that instant stinker to Gallagher. A team prioritises big investments in its core but absent having those players Bergevin invested anywhere he could. We never had a core under Bergevin, from day 1 he was very much a "win by committee" type and over-invested in the so-called committee. He over-relied on Bouillon, on Weise, on Danault, on Desharnais, etc.

Just because it was a bad or ill conceived core doesn't mean it wasn't a core. There isn't an age requirement or a minimum number of games or level of achievement.

It also ignores the reasons Bergevin approached the team the way he did - he didn't want to pick a direction. He was never willing to truly go all in on the group he had (because it wasn't good enough), but he also didn't want to bottom out and focus on building through drafting and developing. So you ended up with shuffle moves (Subban for Weber, trading Eller for picks and then using picks to trade for Shaw, using limited money to sign an Alzner, go from Galchenyuk to Domi to Anderson). Keep the guys you view as the core and shuffle the rest.

Current management isn't picking an extreme direction, but they're clearly on the draft/develop path. Its why they haven't been aggressive this offseason despite having cap space. They want to see improvement, but they'd be perfectly happy to see the team finish bottom-5 again as long there's sufficient growth in young players and prospects. I tend to agree with that because Montreal doesn't have a proven core yet. And betting on the current core would be comparable to what Bergevin did.

Other than the occasional Caufield proposal, I haven't seen anyone propose to trade away intended-to-be core players Slafkovsky, Reinbacher, Hutson, Demidov, or Suzuki.

You're free to look through the various threads on here, but apart from Demidov there have been proposals to move each of those players. Because the Habs are a "bad team and fans want to horse-trade to get a better team".

Yes that's how it works.

So why do you care that some people are reticent to move Barron?
 

417

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My first reaction is to say: Good luck convincing Tankists of this!

My second reaction is: I don't expect a >top10 pick this coming year because Hughes hasn't, so far, improved the roster from last year's bottom5-10 roster.

Hotswap Monahan and Dach and it's pretty much the same... with less depth, actually.

There's plenty of time until October and I *do* expect to see some depth pieces added and even maybe another top6 forward but I don't think we can know for sure until the puck is dropped.
Meh, we spent the majority of last season with Jake Evans as the #2C...short of another rash of devastating injuries, I don't expect us to pick in the top 10 again next year.
 

ReHabs

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Please show me the "push-back against the notion of trading Barron regardless of the return". Regardless of the return.

The push back against the notion of trading Barron is almost entirely because of what people think the return could be vs. what Barron the player could be.
The push-back assumes maximum upside for Barron and his development and also ignores his many warts... while doing the opposite about the potential return. It's irrational.

So why do you care that some people are reticent to move Barron?
Because it's boring to see trade proposals poo-pooed over and over and over. It's the dog days of summer, we're left with nothing to talk about with nobody tweeners like Barron get desperate pleas written in their favour.
 

Spring in Fialta

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I don't see the point in acquiring Laine. Yes we can afford the cap hit, but what does it accomplish? Are we trying to be competitive the next 2 years? Or continue with the rebuild? I'd think the latter.

Gives a potentially elite winger to Suzuki or Dach to play with in our gaping top-6 hole with the sort of contract that Hughes precisely said he was interested in acquiring/dishing out (short-term high money).

If I'm Hughes, I'm asking Waddell to let me talk to the guy the instant he's out.
 

Captain Mountain

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The push-back assumes maximum upside for Barron and his development and also ignores his many warts... while doing the opposite about the potential return. It's irrational.


Because it's boring to see trade proposals poo-pooed over and over and over. It's the dog days of summer, we're left with nothing to talk about with nobody tweeners like Barron get desperate pleas written in their favour.

It doesn't, but by that standard the push-for often assumes maximum downside for Barron and ignores his many strengths while doing the opposite about the potential returns. The extreme on either side is a straw-man argument I'm not particularly interested in entertaining.

And that's literally what happens on a trade board. If you don't want talk about trade proposals or rumours, then don't.
 

JoelWarlord

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I don't see the point in acquiring Laine. Yes we can afford the cap hit, but what does it accomplish? Are we trying to be competitive the next 2 years? Or continue with the rebuild? I'd think the latter.
He's 26 years old, once scored 44 goals in an NHL season, has 117 points in his last 129 games, and Anderson or Roy are currently pencilled into his assumed spot in the lineup. It accomplishes adding a player to the top six who's significantly better than either of those options. He could be a long-term upgrade if things work out, and if it doesn't work out we can just move on again next summer or at the 2026 deadline.

I'm personally not going to be "upset" if we don't end up getting Laine because I don't love the long term fit with adding him to a top 6 that already includes Caufield, but I would be all for taking the chance given it's not going to cost any premium assets. There wouldn't really be much downside and there's a perfectly reasonable case to be made that he'd find chemistry with Dach and significantly upgrade our top 6.
 

CHwest

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Gives a potentially elite winger to Suzuki or Dach to play with in our gaping top-6 hole with the sort of contract that Hughes precisely said he was interested in acquiring/dishing out (short-term high money).

If I'm Hughes, I'm asking Waddell to let me talk to the guy the instant he's out.
I think calling him potentially elite is a stretch, he is 26 and has under achieved on every opportunity. 2nd line at best.
 
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le_sean

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Gives a potentially elite winger to Suzuki or Dach to play with in our gaping top-6 hole with the sort of contract that Hughes precisely said he was interested in acquiring/dishing out (short-term high money).

If I'm Hughes, I'm asking Waddell to let me talk to the guy the instant he's out.
Yeah looking forward to the 25 games him and Dach play together since both are going to get hurt yet again.
 
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Sasha Orlov

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Gives a potentially elite winger to Suzuki or Dach to play with in our gaping top-6 hole with the sort of contract that Hughes precisely said he was interested in acquiring/dishing out (short-term high money).

If I'm Hughes, I'm asking Waddell to let me talk to the guy the instant he's out.
Maybe they can even play 50 games (combined)
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
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Agreed 100%, you can't keep thinking that another top 5-10 pick fixes things, it doesn't....the Ottawa Senators are another example of what a perpetual rebuild looks like.

We're at the stage that if the Habs are picking inside the top 5-10 again next summer, it means something isn't working in this rebuild.

Ottawa is a specific example of a team that tried to trade/sign there way out of a rebuild (one already delayed by trading their 2019 1st (became 4th OA) for Duchene). They moved a top 10 pick in 2022 and their highest pick in 2023 was in the 4th round. And they've already moved the guys they traded for. And after making the moves they did (DeBrincat, Chychrun, and dumping Zaitsev's and Murray's salaries so they could make moves focused on the short and medium term), they got bottom 10 finishes, a rental soon to be 31 year old Ullmark, a soon to be 34 year old Nick Jensen and a couple of mid round picks/prospects.
 

Team_Spirit

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Look at it this way: every minute someone else plays is a minute less Josh Anderson plays.

Bro we don't want Laine to infect Slaf with his gaming ways 😤

1000006031.jpg
 

ReHabs

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What we need is a more expensive Josh Anderson that plays 55 games and has personal issues. Should go over well
Comparing Patrick Laine (26 year old, 2 years left, career 0.8 PPG) to Josh Anderson (30 year old, 3 years left, career 0.4 PPG) is exactly the kind of deep puck knowledge I expect when I see your profile picture. Good job!
 
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le_sean

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Comparing Patrick Laine (26 year old, 2 years left, career 0.8 PPG) to Josh Anderson (30 year old, 3 years left, career 0.4 PPG) is exactly the kind of deep puck knowledge I expect when I see your profile picture. Good job!
Both are useless, that’s the comparison.

What good is 0.8 PPG when you never play and now can’t even mentally handle the Columbus market
 

HABitual Fan

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This is how I see it:

Matheson / Guhle
AAAA / Savard
Xhekaj / BBBB
Depth: Harris, Struble

AAAA:
* Hutson will get a shot but I think he needs AHL time. Giveaways/60 in his 2 games were way too high. I'm OK if he makes it at that spot but he's not being penciled in based on offense alone. D side needs to be stable.
* Engstrom has already played in a tight checking SHL league with men. If anybody is ready for the NHL, he is. I think he has the largest % to get that spot with Savard. If he struggles, Harris will get some time with Savard again. I don't think Xhekaj and Savard are good partners but you never know how Xhekaj will look this year. Maturity is the only thing holding him back.

BBBB:
* Barron and Mailloux will fight for that spot. If Barron makes it, Mailloux is AHL. If Mailloux makes it, Barron is depth and Struble is in the AHL
* Reinbacher is not ready and should be playing high min's/usage in the AHL vs last pairing in the NHL.



Exactly. Barron went through this but is not exempt anymore. So others will be managed like how we managed Barron. There is no rush to promote our D up faster. Fans got to chill.
Would not shock me if none of the waiver exempt defense start the year in Montreal . I can see something like
Guhle-Barron
Matheson -Savard
Wifi-waiver pickup RD
Harris
 
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le_sean

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I think calling him potentially elite is a stretch, he is 26 and has under achieved on every opportunity. 2nd line at best.
I think he meant elite at Fortnite, because it certainly isn’t at hockey.
 
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