HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #88: 2024 Off-Season Thread

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Deus ex machina

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Sep 12, 2023
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Andersson is the D to get in Calgary.
I'm sure Calgary would like to get their 2025 1st pick back. There must be something they can do with that pick as the main piece of a deal.
Why not add Baron to that to replace Andersson. He's so good and he has so much upside still, he must have high value. :sarcasm:
 
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ReHabs

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The bolded seems like drawing conclusions based on biased interpretation. We've also seen impassioned arguments to trade Savard, Matheson, Barron, Xhekaj, Harris, Guhle, Evans, Newhook, Montembault and even Caufield.
Well yes, of course -- we have a bad team and fans want to horse-trade to get a better team. Hughes has been trading away players left and right as much as he could, and he doesn't look like stopping either.
The general opinion is (and has always been) that its less about trading someone and more what the team may be getting if they do trade someone. You can say trade Barron, but if the best trade you can get is Barron+ for Kaliyev, then you're going to get a lot more pushback than a Barron++ for McGroarty.
Well there is a lot of push-back against the notion of trading Barron regardless of the return. Barron.
I'm also not sure why you're saying about Bergevin. It is absolutely true that Bergevin's approach was the "former" (having a small core group). Under Bergevin, especially after 2015, there was a LOT of roster turnover every season. In the end the core was basically Weber, Price, Petry, Suzuki and Gallagher (and arguably Danault). The major difference between Vegas and Florida vs what Bergevin did (apart from having a better core group) is, in the case of Vegas he didn't commit to winning in the present at all other costs and in the case of Florida, he didn't focus on exploiting inefficiencies.
You have it wrong. Weber was in his late 30s, Price was in his late 30s, Petry in his mid 30s, Suzuki under-proven, Gallagher cooked, and Danault allowed to leave -- that's not a core and never was. Bergevin's "small core" was not a core, it was just small because of how bad the rest of the roster was at all times.

Whilst having massive gaps in the core positions, Bergevin was investing 6 years in the likes of Andrew Shaw and handing out big contracts to Alzner and Anderson and that instant stinker to Gallagher. A team prioritises big investments in its core but absent having those players Bergevin invested anywhere he could. We never had a core under Bergevin, from day 1 he was very much a "win by committee" type and over-invested in the so-called committee. He over-relied on Bouillon, on Weise, on Danault, on Desharnais, etc.
Montreal right now doesn't have a small core group that can win a cup. They may not even have a small core group that can make the playoffs. Almost every fan on here wants a small core group and leaving every other player-asset available for a swap. But by far the best way to get that core group is through the draft (generally drafting in high and often) and development.
Other than the occasional Caufield proposal, I haven't seen anyone propose to trade away intended-to-be core players Slafkovsky, Reinbacher, Hutson, Demidov, or Suzuki.
So any trade outside has to consider risks (losing players that haven't finished developing, good draft picks) vs what is to be gained. And opinions differ on the value there.
Yes that's how it works.
 

Habs Halifax

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I know it won't help the moar bigger crowd but a deal centered around Nick Robertson and Barron, would that be a bad deal for MTL?

Robertson is no better than RHP, Farrell, Mesar, Heineman. Barron is a rare RD with size/skating mix and has a great shot from the point.

I like Barron's chances to reach top 4D vs Robertson, RHP, Farell, Mesar, Heineman reaching top 6F. It's possible none of them reach their ceiling too but Barron has more value than what fans are saying on the internet.

Barron > Robertson. Bringing in Robertson to our mix does nothing for us. Might as well trade Barron for two 2nd rounders and try to hit with those picks. I would prefer that over Robertson
 

B1g B1rd

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Questions: Is there anyone who still believe HuGo will make an offer for Laine and his 8,7m$ salary? I don't. Not at that salary.

So let's say CLB keeps 25% (I know Waddel said they wouldn't but I dont believe him) which bring the salary around 6,5m$. Do you think HuGo do it in spite of having established the actual salary structure? Is it something that can disturb the message/culture/whatever they're trying to build?
 

Habs Halifax

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A 22 year old D with less than 100 NHL games cannot be given up on this quickly.

Agreed. Some fans are desperate to make a trade. Barron might not reach top 4D but giving up on him this early is premature. It's not like we are able to trade him with grade A value today so why trade him for low value just to get rid of him. Makes no sense at all.

If we trade nobody on our back end, we can easily have Harris and Barron as depth and there is going to be a serious battle between Barron and Mailloux for that last RD spot. I personally don't have Hutson and Reinbacher penciled in our line-up this quickly. Engstrom is more ready to face men than Hutson and Reinbacher.

Matheson / Guhle
Engstrom / Savard
Xhekaj / Mailloux

Harris, Struble

Struble/Engstrom will fight for the spot with Savard. Hutson as well but I think he needs a AHL season to groom his D game against men

Barron/Mailloux will fight for the last RD spot. Reinbacher as well but once again, he should play one full AHL season at high usage.

We already made our D trade to unclutter it. Kova. Of course we would prefer to make another trade but there is no desperation here.
 
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Habs Halifax

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Questions: Is there anyone who still believe HuGo will make an offer for Laine and his 8,7m$ salary? I don't. Not at that salary.

So let's say CLB keeps 25% (I know Waddel said they wouldn't but I dont believe him) which bring the salary around 6,5m$. Do you think HuGo do it in spite of having established the actual salary structure? Is it something that can disturb the message/culture/whatever they're trying to build?

Armia or Dvorak is likely going in any Laine package. Maybe Anderson but not sure if the Jackets would want him back. I doubt it's going to be all futures with no NHL contract.

What do you think is the problem with Laine (at that salary) for two years does to us? We do have $16M-$19M of cap space with Price on LTIR. Heck, we can even fit Laine in without Price on LTIR. And our cap space opens up even more for 25/26.

To answer you question? YES, we are in on Laine. He is a top 6F and his 2 year term fits. Only thing we won't do is overpay. If the deal is something we can afford, I am sure we will welcome Laine to our team and MSL/Suzuki can help revive his career.
 

Tyson

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Agreed. Some fans are desperate to make a trade. Barron might not reach top 4D but giving up on him this early is premature. It's not like we are able to trade him with grade A value today so why trade him for low value just to get rid of him. Makes no sense at all.

If we trade nobody on our back end, we can easily have Harris and Barron as depth and there is going to be a serious battle between Barron and Mailloux for that last RD spot. I personally don't have Hutson and Reinbacher penciled in our line-up this quickly. Engstrom is more ready to face men than Hutson and Reinbacher.

Matheson / Guhle
Engstrom / Savard
Xhekaj / Mailloux

Harris, Struble

Struble/Engstrom will fight for the spot with Savard. Hutson as well but I think he needs a AHL season to groom his D game against men

Barron/Mailloux will fight for the last RD spot. Reinbacher as well but once again, he should play one full AHL season at high usage.

We already made our D trade to unclutter it. Kova. Of course we would prefer to make another trade but there is no desperation here.
The good thing is that Mailloux, Struble, Engstrom, Hutson, Reinbacher are not waiver eligible. We don't have to trade anyone just yet.
 

Habs Halifax

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The 3rd pair RD is his to lose, no? Who else is there? They traded Kovacevic for that very reason.

This is how I see it:

Matheson / Guhle
AAAA / Savard
Xhekaj / BBBB
Depth: Harris, Struble

AAAA:
* Hutson will get a shot but I think he needs AHL time. Giveaways/60 in his 2 games were way too high. I'm OK if he makes it at that spot but he's not being penciled in based on offense alone. D side needs to be stable.
* Engstrom has already played in a tight checking SHL league with men. If anybody is ready for the NHL, he is. I think he has the largest % to get that spot with Savard. If he struggles, Harris will get some time with Savard again. I don't think Xhekaj and Savard are good partners but you never know how Xhekaj will look this year. Maturity is the only thing holding him back.

BBBB:
* Barron and Mailloux will fight for that spot. If Barron makes it, Mailloux is AHL. If Mailloux makes it, Barron is depth and Struble is in the AHL
* Reinbacher is not ready and should be playing high min's/usage in the AHL vs last pairing in the NHL.

The good thing is that Mailloux, Struble, Engstrom, Hutson, Reinbacher are not waiver eligible. We don't have to trade anyone just yet.

Exactly. Barron went through this but is not exempt anymore. So others will be managed like how we managed Barron. There is no rush to promote our D up faster. Fans got to chill.
 
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Sterling Archer

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Questions: Is there anyone who still believe HuGo will make an offer for Laine and his 8,7m$ salary? I don't. Not at that salary.

So let's say CLB keeps 25% (I know Waddel said they wouldn't but I dont believe him) which bring the salary around 6,5m$. Do you think HuGo do it in spite of having established the actual salary structure? Is it something that can disturb the message/culture/whatever they're trying to build?
I think at $8.7 he can be had for futures.
 

Habs Halifax

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I think at $8.7 he can be had for futures.

Yes, we have loads of cap space to add him for 2 years as well. Ideally, we would like to send a contract back (Anderson) but we don't have too. If it takes only futures we can spare and the deal is accepted because other teams can't take the full contract (without something going back), the Habs have high % of landing Laine. After he exits his assistance program.

Laine fits what we are after.

Legit top 6F with top line potential? Yes

One of the best shots in the NHL? Yes

Good size and doesn't get pushed around? Yes

2 year term that does not mortgage the future? Yes... if the cost is something we can afford.

Suzuki and MSL will turn Laine back into a 40+ goal guy. Caufield can play with Dach.
Slaf / Suzuki / Laine
Roy / Dach / Caufield
Newhook / Dvorak / Gallagher
Armia / Evans / Anderson
Depth: Barre-Boulet, RHP, Pezzetta
 

B1g B1rd

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Armia or Dvorak is likely going in any Laine package. Maybe Anderson but not sure if the Jackets would want him back. I doubt it's going to be all futures with no NHL contract.

What do you think is the problem with Laine (at that salary) for two years does to us? We do have $16M-$19M of cap space with Price on LTIR. Heck, we can even fit Laine in without Price on LTIR. And our cap space opens up even more for 25/26.

To answer you question? YES, we are in on Laine. He is a top 6F and his 2 year term fits. Only thing we won't do is overpay. If the deal is something we can afford, I am sure we will welcome Laine to our team and MSL/Suzuki can help revive his career.
So you dont see a problem with the salary structure then? Like Suzuki is the captain and the highest paid...
 

B1g B1rd

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you're just not going to go after players who make more than Suzuki?
I don't know, thats why I'm asking for opinions. In due time, it is sure that the actual structure wont hold. But for now, while the rebuild and the culture implementation are still at early stages, I don't know. Don't get me wrong, I would love Laine for 2 years...
 
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Habs Halifax

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So you dont see a problem with the salary structure then? Like Suzuki is the captain and the highest paid...

Not ideal but it's a 2 year term. I'm pretty sure Suzuki would welcome having someone like Laine on his line. If it doesn't work, let him walk. If it works, consider flipping him for some serious futures at a TDL or retain him.

If we want to add a legit top 6F and at a cost we can afford. Laine is sitting right there in front of our face. There is no perfect situation. Necas and Zegras will cost too much
 

B1g B1rd

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Not ideal but it's a 2 year term. I'm pretty sure Suzuki would welcome having someone like Laine on his line. If it doesn't work, let him walk. If it works, consider flipping him for some serious futures at a TDL or retain him.

If we want to add a legit top 6F and at a cost we can afford. Laine is sitting right there in front of our face. There is no perfect situation. Necas and Zegras will cost too much
So they would probably talk to Suzuki before doing the deal. Fair enough. I understand Suzuki would probably welcome a player like Laine IF he's (Laine) ready to invest his talent to perform.
 

Saundies

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So they would probably talk to Suzuki before doing the deal. Fair enough. I understand Suzuki would probably welcome a player like Laine IF he's (Laine) ready to invest his talent to perform.
I don't think they would...not like they need his permission to acquire a player who signed a contract on another team that happened to pay him more money than the contract they signed Suzuki too.
 

junyab

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Jan 22, 2013
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I don't see the point in acquiring Laine. Yes we can afford the cap hit, but what does it accomplish? Are we trying to be competitive the next 2 years? Or continue with the rebuild? I'd think the latter.
 

Pacciosoftie

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Oct 26, 2017
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I don't see the point in acquiring Laine. Yes we can afford the cap hit, but what does it accomplish? Are we trying to be competitive the next 2 years? Or continue with the rebuild? I'd think the latter.
I don’t see any downside. If he plays well, we either extend him or trade him in two years for another top 6 player/prospect. If he plays bad, we send him down or trade him for peanuts or just wait out those two years. Seriously what’s the downside?
 

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I don't see the point in acquiring Laine. Yes we can afford the cap hit, but what does it accomplish? Are we trying to be competitive the next 2 years? Or continue with the rebuild? I'd think the latter.
I don't see why both of those things are exclusive to each other.

The Habs are done the "tear down" part of their rebuild, or just about, results and performance indicators are now more important than they've been the last 2 years.

You need to see signs that what you've done the last 2 years, is moving in the right direction.

Acquiring Laine, doesn't change any of that.
 
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