HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[HomeAndHome]

I speculated just as you did, that Dach’s faceoff % may have been impacted by his injury.

However, @Adam Michaels dug up the numbers in another thread (reprised in italics below) and showed that there was no correlation. He’s always been subpar at faceoffs:

It's been a weakness of his since junior.

In Junior:
2017-18 (41%)
2018-19 (41%) - Year of his draft

In Pros:
2019-20 (34%)
2020-21 (40%) - This was after his injury at the WJC
2021-22 (33%)

As others have argued, this part of his game can be improved upon and won’t matter as much if he shows that he can be offensively productive.

Very interesting, thanks for the info! Hopefully he can improve on them with us.

 

[SlafySZN]

Yup
My expectations are low
And do you think Dubois won’t get more than 60 and can’t score 30 or more
Dubois is and will always be the better player
That doesn’t mean dach can’t be a good player getting 40-45 pts
Dubois is a more skillful player

How many times have you watched Dach play?

By the way it’s not like Dubois is good on faceoffs either.

 

[Guy Larose]

So you think dach will be as good as Dubois ?
His injury history will magically disappear ?
His face off% will improve to the point it’s not atrocious?
And most of all you think he will put score Dubois ?
This is the kotkaniemi argument all over again

You don't know and neither do I...but you seem to have it all figured out...nobody knows, including you, but you keep repeating yourself.

 

[HomeAndHome]

Yup
My expectations are low
And do you think Dubois won’t get more than 60 and can’t score 30 or more
Dubois is and will always be the better player
That doesn’t mean dach can’t be a good player getting 40-45 pts
Dubois is a more skillful player

I only used the next 3 years because they were both drafted 3rd overall 3 years apart and we know for a fact what Dubois has done the last 3 years. In 3 years Dach will be the same age Dubois is now.

Of course Dubois can improve his game, and I expect him to, but if Dach can put up a couple near 60 point seasons or 50 point seasons and improve his overall game the next few years I don't think it's fair to say he can't reach Dubois level.

I have my questions about both players though... Dach is 6'4 but not physically dominating and also had opportunity to play PP with Kane. Dubois got to play with Wheeler, Schieffle, Connor, Ehlers ... I expected more points than 60, not to mention this is his 2nd team he won't commit to. Just some things to think about I guess.

Would be awesome if both keep improving and are both Habs in the next couple years though!

 

[SlafySZN]

Probably as many as you
But you’ll say you watched every hawk game
Is Kirby your cousin
Dude you get defensive every time a negative comment Is made


Would you trade dach straight up for Dubois
That’s an easy yes
The jets wouldn’t Cuz Dubois is superior to dach

I asked you if you have seen him play and you can’t even respond.

You speak like you saw every games of his and has a crystal ball.

And yes, i’ve been watching him since his draft year.

The defensive person is you, you start to panick and you’re passive agressive when people ask you a question or respond to your non-sense.

 

[HomeAndHome]

You make good points and I agree dach can get better but i really don’t thing he will ever be as good as Dubois
We all had high hopes for Kk and that went downhill
Im a realist and I go with what I see
I’ve read a few articles now saying he will probably never reach his draft status

He's got a great opportunity with us now, I hope for his and our sake he is able to get it going in the NHL! Would really help the kids if MTL would be able to find a puck moving defensemen, Wideman just isn't going to cut it to boost their numbers and confidence.

I like to look at it as more of optimist this summer (within some sort of reason lol) otherwise it's a loooong offseason. I'm imagining a line of Slaf Dach Anderson in the playoffs 3 or so years from now

 

[sampollock]

Dach young
PLD young
They just need training

 

[SlafySZN]

Lol dude every post is you defending him
Look up passive aggressive
There’s nothing passive about my comemnt
He’s not better than Evans and that hurts your little feelings

So have you ever watched him play or not?

I’ll assume you haven’t since you keep comparing him to Evans when they have absolutely nothing in common.

 

[SwiftyHab]

A second line center is not a player that a team absolutely needs, therefore the trade offer will and should be what we can afford, and Winnipeg may not bite.

So be it.

But Dubois being too old or that he might have to be paid a 2nd line center's salary are not reasons to refuse to make an offer.

Finally, Discarding for Bedard is a ridiculous strategy and goes in the wrong direction.

First off it’s Discard for Bedard. Discarding did Bedard doesn’t even rhyme.

Secondly, how dare you criticize the oversimplistic and super catchy slogan approach to perfect the rebuild?

Lastly, in what world is a 23 year old Dubois considered old?

 

[SlafySZN]

Nothing in common yet evans had more goals
Last year and what, one less point
Weird eh

I’ll ask for the last time… have you ever watched him play?

 

[Team_Spirit]

Nothing in common yet evans had more goals
Last year and what, one less point
Weird eh

Larry Moe would you pick Sissons & Foegele?

Filip Chytil 22pts in 67gp
Colton Sissons 28pts in 79gp

Warren Foegele 26pts in 82gp
Vasily Podkolzin 26pts in 79gp

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Are either of these players a A 3 oa and the other a 207 th oa
Apple to oranges
I want dach to succeed, really I do
Like I wanted Kk To succeed and Galchenyuk and Drouin
Im tempering my expectations On dach and if he produces I’ll gladly eat crow

Apples to oranges? You keep bringing up Evans who is a 4th line forward 5 years older than Dach. Evans was still in college at 21. This is not a moron MB trade. I trust HuGo have correctly evaluated his potential

 

[Team_Spirit]

Are either of these players a A 3 oa and the other a 207 th oa
Apple to oranges

Younger 1st rounder vs older non 1st rounders with similar output in 21-22 aka Dach/Evans.

 

[ML16]

Amongst potential trade targets to bolster the depleted RHD side, I think the Habs should really kick the tires on Alexandre Carrier before next offseason; the latter, not unlike Matheson, seems to emit strong « young Petry » vibes following a respectable +30 points in his first full NHL season at age 25.

The Predators already have 24M AAV commited on Josi/McDonagh/Ekholm/Lauzon over the next 4 years. Fabbro and Carrier’s ELC expires next offseason and one of them will thus likely become expandable, especially with Jeannot also due for a hefty payraise.

The Habs have the depth and assets to acquire Carrier without hindering the rebuild, and strengthening the RHD in the short term to optimize the development of Guhle-Barron-Harris appears paramount.

In that sense, one could replace Carrier by any other RHD who could alleviate Savard/Wideman’s workload as a priority target. (Dante Fabbro?; Ethan Bear?; Damon Severson?; William Borgen?)

 

[sampollock]

According to what Jimmy Murphy learned from the mouth of an anonymous NHL manager, it seems that the price to be paid by the general manager of the Canadiens will absolutely have to include Kirby Dach !

 

[Sterling Archer]

According to what Jimmy Murphy learned from the mouth of an anonymous NHL manager, it seems that the price to be paid by the general manager of the Canadiens will absolutely have to include Kirby Dach !

Or not.

 

[Runner77]

According to what Jimmy Murphy learned from the mouth of an anonymous NHL manager, it seems that the price to be paid by the general manager of the Canadiens will absolutely have to include Kirby Dach !

Does Charlie Murphy ever get anything right?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I speculated just as you did, that Dach’s faceoff % may have been impacted by his injury.

However, @Adam Michaels dug up the numbers in another thread (reprised in italics below) and showed that there was no correlation. He’s always been subpar at faceoffs:

It's been a weakness of his since junior.

In Junior:
2017-18 (41%)
2018-19 (41%) - Year of his draft

In Pros:
2019-20 (34%)
2020-21 (40%) - This was after his injury at the WJC
2021-22 (33%)

As others have argued, this part of his game can be improved upon and won’t matter as much if he shows that he can be offensively productive.

There is a reason why hawks board said he was no center and more likely a winger. Can't even get 40% as a center , thats just bad.

 

[ReHabs]

More worrisome than his injury history and his woeful faceoff% is Kirby Dach’s major criticism: he allegedly does not use his body right at all. It is not a common occurrence of player used to using his frame incorrectly and then managing to fix it after he’s already in the NHL.

I don’t think he is comparable to Dubois, a matured player with few flaws on the verge of defining his career: 2nd liner or 1st liner? He isn’t worse than a second liner.

Dach is a project, a mystery. His upside can be higher than Dubois but his downside is much lower than Dubois, his downside can be as bad as busted out of the NHL before he hits UFA. It’s just a very wide range and we have no idea how it’ll play out. It would be very cool if Dach pans out.

HuGo have been very cocksure in recent months and especially at the draft. So let’s hope they know what they’re doing and stick around for the ride. I don’t think they would trade Dach+ for Dubois in any case.

 

[HABitual Fan]

More worrisome than his injury history and his woeful faceoff% is Kirby Dach’s major criticism: he allegedly does not use his body right at all. It is not a common occurrence of player used to using his frame incorrectly and then managing to fix it after he’s already in the NHL.

I don’t think he is comparable to Dubois, a matured player with few flaws on the verge of defining his career: 2nd liner or 1st liner? He isn’t worse than a second liner.

Dach is a project, a mystery. His upside can be higher than Dubois but his downside is much lower than Dubois, his downside can be as bad as busted out of the NHL before he hits UFA. It’s just a very wide range and we have no idea how it’ll play out. It would be very cool if Dach pans out.

HuGo have been very cocksure in recent months and especially at the draft. So let’s hope they know what they’re doing and stick around for the ride. I don’t think they would trade Dach+ for Dubois in any case.

if the deal was a swap involving Romanov and the 2 picks going to Chicago, I also would have my doubts about the trade, but the fact that HuGo went through the process of acquiring the pick Chicago was looking for, suggests the move was well thought out and researched and not a spur of the moment decision like we were used to under Bergevin..

 

[jaffy27]

They were still god awful with MSL
The only that changed was Caufield waking up.

We still finished dead last. Our goalie situation is at the same level which was beyond horrendous.

Our dsquad is even worse than last year.

Combine Anderson Hoffman Dadonov and Drouin who are all turnover gods and can't play defensively at all. MSL is not savings anyone with that roster. Nobody can.

Be happy if Guhle make the nhl and does good and Suzuki + Caufield keep that insane pace from last season

Beyond that don't expect anything

Caufield’s insane pace?? He scored 23 goals!! Lol

The insane pace was him scoring 1 goal in the first 25 games or so.

Suzuki went from a .73PPG last last year to a .74PPG last year…..is that what you call an insane pace?

Need to be reminded the 700+ man games lost last year….that does factor in no??

We essentially traded away our best veteran assets….i mean…..if anything, these guys are ready to take that next step, they were stripped of all opportunities to be special yet still found a way to perform at some respectable level…they are young, they have a proven track record in their pre NHL careers, the trend is up my friend.

Oh….and that team was certainly not god awful with MSL behind the bench, they played much much better considering the talent that was on the ice, the brand was fun, the pace was good, we were just missing the talent on the ice to convert the play on the ice to W’s

As for Guhle, ya, I’m on board with what you’re saying, he’s not a proven commodity, but neither is any player stepping into the league, but the signs are he’ll be one hell of a 2. We’ll let that one play out.

I know you’re pissed at MSL signing and the Slaf pick so one hell of an axe to grind but let this year play out. Expect a bottom 5 finish with progress within players.

Colorado Avalanche picked Makar 4th overall not long ago with the likes of Rantanaan, McKinnon and Landeskog on the team. If memory serves me right, they had finished even lower then 4th that year.

Let it play out, give these players and coaches a chances

 

[Scriptor]

I have one word for you: Sisyphus.

Syphilis!?

Why would you even bring that up?

 

[ReHabs]

if the deal was a swap involving Romanov and the 2 picks going to Chicago, I also would have my doubts about the trade, but the fact that HuGo went through the process of acquiring the pick Chicago was looking for, suggests the move was well thought out and researched and not a spur of the moment decision like we were used to under Bergevin..

I agree. I don’t think it was a sudden trade either. They targeted Dach. That’s why I don’t think they have a plan to flip him just yet.

I wouldn’t say Bergevin made spur of the moment decisions — but on reflection, it was obvious he only fired Therrien when Julien was free and he acquired Weber as soon as Weber was made available (ie he didn’t seem to set out to acquire Weber) and same goes for the Pacioretty return.

He was such a disaster.

 

[HABitual Fan]

I agree. I don’t think it was a sudden trade either. They targeted Dach. That’s why I don’t think they have a plan to flip him just yet.

I wouldn’t say Bergevin made spur of the moment decisions — but on reflection, it was obvious he only fired Therrien when Julien was free and he acquired Weber as soon as Weber was made available (ie he didn’t seem to set out to acquire Weber) and same goes for the Pacioretty return.

He was such a disaster.

Maybe spur of the moment wasn't the right term. What I meant is that if the roof is leaking Bergevin hires someone to patch it, whereas HuGo give the impression they hire someone to replace it.

 

[jellybeans]

He's a player we'll absolutely need in 2 or 3 years. His age fits the next window. Better have him sooner than never, I mean this year or next year than never. Because we don't know if we'll have a good center next draft and that player we'll draft will be too young. People are snobbing PLD like if a center was suddendly easy to acquire. Habs are one of 32 teams. Bruins can be an attractive market for a good center when Bergeron will retire or slow down. Boston is just an example among others, Rangers are attractive too. If Habs are lazy or nonchalant for getting a quality center, they'll end up having none (only Suzuki), like for the past 30 years. A duo of Suzuki and Dubois is interresting enough, it's better than the Koivu years when the second center was Ribeiro, Bonk, Smolinsky or Perreault. And there is Dach in the picture, and Farrell too. It's starting to get interresting.

What I like of Su-Du is they are different, like two ways to create something in offence. Suzuki is finesse and Dubois is sandpaper. This create opportunities for different wingers too.

We don't need Dubois at all with his attitude, imagine when the media comes after him in any negative way i bet he'll want out again