HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[Scriptor]

If that was the potential of Fantili and Dvorsky… they wouldn’t be in the discussion for top 5… everybody citing 2003 draft and all… maybe not right off the start at D+1 but we gotta be talking about #1 center potential there, to push Suzuki down at #1B spot. Then we can think about becoming real contender.

Typo. Should read Dach, not 'each' would be a big-bodied, shutdown C.

Fantilli/Dvorsky would start as 2nd line Cs and make their case to become the #1C, IMO.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Imagine that Dubois last year, one of his two 60 point seasons, had wingers like Drouin, Gallagher and Hoffman instead of Ehlers, Connor, Copp and Wheeler. Imagine that his ES-PP time went down 2.40 minutes per game to Dvorak's level and that he had to expend energy killing penalties like Dvorak did.

Then tell us how many more points Dubois would have had than Dvorak.

I'd say not that many. You can't underestimate the drag that Gallagher and Drouin put on Dvorak's production. He had crappy wingers in Arizona too.

Dubois is better but the difference is less than many may think. How did Dvorak do with Mitch Marner on his wing?

On top of all that, besides what you give up in futures for Dubois, if you trade for him now, it is like buying a scratch lotto and that is all. You can't extend him, so you can't plan on him being here for more than 2 years. at this junction. Despite what everyone wants to believe about him wanting to play in Montreal, 2 years on a rebuilding team with all the pressure and being the face of the franchise for the French media, might make him change his mind quickly. II's not like it wouldn't be his 3rd team by age 24 and he has no history of being unhappy with his current team and forcing his way out. As a UFA he just goes where he thinks the grass will be greener, doesn't even need a GM to trade him and you are left without both Dubois and what you gave up for him in 2 years time.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

On top of all that, besides what you give up in futures for Dubois, if you trade for him now, it is like buying a scratch lotto and that is all. You can't extend him, so you can't plan on him being here for more than 2 years. at this junction. Despite what everyone wants to believe about him wanting to play in Montreal, 2 years on a rebuilding team with all the pressure and being the face of the franchise for the French media, might make him change his mind quickly. II's not like it wouldn't be his 3rd team by age 24 and he has no history of being unhappy with his current team and forcing his way out. As a UFA he just goes where he thinks the grass will be greener, doesn't even need a GM to trade him and you are left without both Dubois and what you gave up for him in 2 years time.

Not that I'm advocating for trading for Dubois, but I'm pretty sure they'll have an extension in place if they trade for him

 

[HABitual Fan]

Not that I'm advocating for trading for Dubois, but I'm pretty sure they'll have an extension in place if they trade for him

Not allowed until January

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not that I'm advocating for trading for Dubois, but I'm pretty sure they'll have an extension in place if they trade for him

So no trade before January, which is fine. By then, we will have a better idea on Dach, on Dvorak, on PLD's season.

 

[OB5]

I wonder what something surround a surplus winger from Montreal for a surplus D from Calgary looks like?

From an LD/RD perspective options are limited.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

If the stork drops him off at the Bell Center it is not a win now move. If Hughes trades 1st rd picks and quality prospects then it is a win now move, and is about 2 years premature considering we are still trying to get rid of the dead wood and can't play the prospects even if we wanted to, due to a lack of space on the roster, so the suck will continue with or without PLD in a Habs uniform. This move could become like the Kessel trade was for Toronto. If he really wants to be here he will wait, just not ready or see the need to expend assets to get him, this is not Mcjesus we are talking about. If there is a need and it is not PLD, you can find a comparable player via trade or UFA..

Yup, amazing how a very vocal part of this board wants us to become the next Brian Burke Leafs.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Imagine that Dubois last year, one of his two 60 point seasons, had wingers like Drouin, Gallagher and Hoffman instead of Ehlers, Connor, Copp and Wheeler. Imagine that his ES-PP time went down 2.40 minutes per game to Dvorak's level and that he had to expend energy killing penalties like Dvorak did.

Then tell us how many more points Dubois would have had than Dvorak.

I'd say not that many. You can't underestimate the drag that Gallagher and Drouin put on Dvorak's production. He had crappy wingers in Arizona too.

Dubois is better but the difference is less than many may think. How did Dvorak do with Mitch Marner on his wing?

I see what you mean but you show how a line could be disconstruct. Take for example a line that produce fairly well and replace the center by another center of a lower rank. Not only the lower center will produce a little less but it will affect the wingers. So at the end of the season the line with the better center would have the overall + stats and the line with the lower center will be in the minus stats. It affect more than just one player because hockey is a team sport so we have to consider the chemistry factor.

A coach knows that. Any coach will give Ehler and Wheeler to Dubois instead of Dvorak. If the Yotes were bad it's probably because Dvorak wasn't that good. He wasn't an hidden jewel badly used. In no way he was making his wingers better. Some centers are the exception in the way they play. McDavid and Matthews for example. You just give them the puck and alone they will create an possible chance of scoring. But not Bergeron who is using his wingers to score. Mario Lemieux alone could do a lot of things alone. But not Steve Yserman. The exceptional players are not the solution, hockey is still a team and chemistry sport.

Dvorak did not only have Drouin and Gallagher. He had Anderson and Toffoli sometimes. Did you see how Gallagher and Tatar had their best years with Danault, who was badly underrated here on this board? Did you see Gallagher having such a bad year after he lost Danault? You know where I'm going : Danault is a team center. Alone he doesn't do that much. Did you see the production of Moore before and with Danault? With Danault he became something like a real winger. Imagine last year Gallagher with Danault. I don't think he would have been so bad. Breaking a chemistry is disconstructing a line or a single player.

And for your question about Dvorak having Marner on his wing, it's an "if" question that doesn't prove anything really. If I was a coach, I would put Marner with a better center than Dvorak, even if Marner's production is acceptable. It would be wasting the talent of Marner and not a good solution for the team.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Anybody who thinks a team should avoid acquiring a young, bonafide top-6 center who wants to play for your team to minimally increase your minimal chances at getting Bedard or whoever should not be taken seriously when talking about how hockey teams should be built.

What was the point of firing Bergevin if you’re just gonna hire people to do the same botched retool shit ?

 

[Habs Icing]

I don't know if Price beleive Maria did it or if it was the Holy Spirit. The Maria virginity is the true originality of the christian religion. It's like a kind of science fiction of year 0 you know. It's unusual and unexpected. But I've read that Jesus Christ was born 1940 years before Chuck Norris. And the word "fear" is affraid of Chuck Norris. That's 2 essential facts that I know.

There's nothing original about Maria's (Mary) virginity.

1) Many, many religions before Christianity used that motif.
2) And that line has been used on men for millenniums.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

There's nothing original about Maria's (Mary) virginity.

1) Many, many religions before Christianity used that motif.
2) And that line has been used on men for millenniums.

3) and in Snatch (the fake jewish who do the hold-up)

Somewhere I think religions had their originality contest. Who will come up with the most surprising concept?

 

[Habs Icing]

What was the point of firing Bergevin if you’re just gonna hire people to do the same botched retool shit ?

I have one word for you: Sisyphus.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

I have one word for you: Sisyphus.

I love me a nice googling.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

What was the point of firing Bergevin if you’re just gonna hire people to do the same botched retool shit ?

You don't get it and I don't think you ever will. This has nothing to do with Bergevin. Let him go dawg.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

What was the point of firing Bergevin if you’re just gonna hire people to do the same botched retool shit ?

Bergevin was given a decade. How about you give more time to our new dyad at the helm before you say they're doing the same things. From this summer alone and last year's deadline, it's apparent that their vision is different. Bergevin never acquired a plethora of draft picks/young players like Hughes has. He also never had the vision to hire a coach who will play and develop youngsters nor did he invest in player dev. You're being utterly reactionary and hyperbolic for no reason whatsoever.

 

[Habs Icing]

I love me a nice googling.

Sorry, I keep forgetting to what low standards our public education has fallen.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

You don't get it and I don't think you ever will. This has nothing to do with Bergevin. Let him go dawg.

lmao youre a waste of time.

Bergevin was given a decade. How about you give more time to our new dyad at the helm before you say they're doing the same things. From this summer alone and last year's deadline, it's apparent that their vision is different. Bergevin never acquired a plethora of draft picks/young players like Hughes has. He also never had the vision to hire a coach who will play and develop youngsters nor did he invest in player dev. You're being utterly reactionary and hyperbolic for no reason whatsoever.

But theyre not. So far theyre doing things that make sense, such as not trading for PLD.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

lmao youre a waste of time.

Sure. Because I haven't explained this to you thirteen times to just keep getting back BuT Da TanK 4 FIVe YeArs and bringing up Bergevin as if he has anything to do with this. Hell, one o the only move he gets unanimously praised for is getting Suzuki who's only a year younger than Dubois and a similar level of player (though I prefer Suz). But you keep spouting off like Dubois is 32. And I'm the waste of time? At least my posts show a modicum of critical thinking instead of pure tank rot-gut.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

If the stork drops him off at the Bell Center it is not a win now move. If Hughes trades 1st rd picks and quality prospects then it is a win now move, and is about two years premature.

This is a colossal fallacy and I'm curious to see if you can figure out why. If you can't, let me know and I'll tell you why. It'll be our secret just like The Fox and The Little Prince.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

lmao youre a waste of time.



But theyre not. So far theyre doing things that make sense, such as not trading for PLD.

Ahh, now I get what you're saying.

 

[HABitual Fan]

This is a colossal fallacy and I'm curious to see if you can figure out why. If you can't, let me know and I'll tell you why. It'll be our secret just like The Fox and The Little Prince.

Go ahead if you think you have all the answers. I'm too old to be playing guessing games.

 

[HomeAndHome]

An exec that MHN talked to seems to think that it makes sense Dach will sign a 2 year deal (as Kakko did, who was taken 1 pick before him). Doing so will allow Montreal to evaluate Dach over the next couple years to see if he can reach his potential and also line up with Dubois hitting FA.

They also suggest that it would make sense that if Montreal want Dubois now the cost might be Dach after talking to the exec.

I think the two year deal makes a lot of sense for Dach, and I'm a believer that he can still find his stride as a top 6 center. If the cost right now to acquire Dubois is Dach than I certainly hope HuGo stay the course and see what Dach can do in a Habs uniform first and re-evaluate in a year or two as a lot can happen between now and then.

Here's the article from MHN.

NHL Exec: ‘If The Habs Want Dubois Now, That Might Mean Dach’

A week after Winnipeg Jets centre Pierre-Luc Dubois did his best to calm the NHL trade rumours that he wants to be traded to the Montreal Canadiens, they don’t seem to be simmering down at all. This past Friday on the 32 Thoughts Podcast, co-host and Sportsnet NHL Insider painted the potential...

montrealhockeynow.com

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Go ahead if you think you have all the answers. I'm too old to be playing guessing games.

Alright, here it goes: When acquiring 24 year-old top-6 Cs (again, that's one year older than freaking Suzuki), win now and futures aren't mutually exclusive. I wouldn't want to give up the '23 pick for him but if Hughes thinks he can give up '24 1st and a couple of other assets because hey, I'm acquiring a piece that I think I can get 8-10 years out of, you're not giving up the future. You're constructing it instead of waiting for it. That's precisely the kind of thing they talked about when they said they'd rather acquire young players than 1st round picks (as we saw with the Lehkonen trade).

So no, if you really like Pierre-Luc Dubois and think he can be a core piece to your team for many years, giving up a couple of picks or slightly younger assets isn't win now. Dubois isn't taking this team from the bottom of the East to the playoffs. Not one player in the league could. But if you want the player and if the price to acquire him can be deemed reasonable (which in this moment in time, it appears that it's not), why would you not go for it? Why would you leave him to another team, another staff, another organizational culture than your own for multiple years? To save a pick? Come on. That's playstation thinking.

An exec that MHN talked to seems to think that it makes sense Dach will sign a 2 year deal (as Kakko did, who was taken 1 pick before him). Doing so will allow Montreal to evaluate Dach over the next couple years to see if he can reach his potential and also line up with Dubois hitting FA.

They also suggest that it would make sense that if Montreal want Dubois now the cost might be Dach after talking to the exec.

I think the two year deal makes a lot of sense for Dach, and I'm a believer that he can still find his stride as a top 6 center. If the cost right now to acquire Dubois is Dach than I certainly hope HuGo stay the course and see what Dach can do in a Habs uniform first and re-evaluate in a year or two as a lot can happen between now and then.

Here's the article from MHN.

NHL Exec: ‘If The Habs Want Dubois Now, That Might Mean Dach’

A week after Winnipeg Jets centre Pierre-Luc Dubois did his best to calm the NHL trade rumours that he wants to be traded to the Montreal Canadiens, they don’t seem to be simmering down at all. This past Friday on the 32 Thoughts Podcast, co-host and Sportsnet NHL Insider painted the potential...

montrealhockeynow.com

I'm not familiar enough with Dach to comment and I'd assume it wouldn't be a 1 for 1 trade, but how likely is it that Dach develops into a better player than Dubois?

 

[SlafySZN]

An exec that MHN talked to seems to think that it makes sense Dach will sign a 2 year deal (as Kakko did, who was taken 1 pick before him). Doing so will allow Montreal to evaluate Dach over the next couple years to see if he can reach his potential and also line up with Dubois hitting FA.

They also suggest that it would make sense that if Montreal want Dubois now the cost might be Dach after talking to the exec.

I think the two year deal makes a lot of sense for Dach, and I'm a believer that he can still find his stride as a top 6 center. If the cost right now to acquire Dubois is Dach than I certainly hope HuGo stay the course and see what Dach can do in a Habs uniform first and re-evaluate in a year or two as a lot can happen between now and then.

Here's the article from MHN.

NHL Exec: ‘If The Habs Want Dubois Now, That Might Mean Dach’

A week after Winnipeg Jets centre Pierre-Luc Dubois did his best to calm the NHL trade rumours that he wants to be traded to the Montreal Canadiens, they don’t seem to be simmering down at all. This past Friday on the 32 Thoughts Podcast, co-host and Sportsnet NHL Insider painted the potential...

montrealhockeynow.com

Their exct ‘’source’’ is BS.

Same one who told them he knew the habs was leaning towards Shane Wright lol.

 

[calder candidate]

When we acquired Dach it because we weren’t able to acquire Dubois. We don’t have the asset or the cap space to acquire Dubois and improve the team.