HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[HomeAndHome]

I'm not familiar enough with Dach to comment and I'd assume it wouldn't be a 1 for 1 trade, but how likely is it that Dach develops into a better player than Dubois?

He was a 3rd overall pick in 2019 who came into the league too early on a Chicago team that was trying to force things, and missing Toews in 2020-21. He also had a major injury which could help explain his awful faceoff numbers. Not to mention the covid bubbles and crazy schedules the last couple years. He's a 21 year old 6'4 center that can skate and shoot.

Now... My opinion is that he still has it in him to hit a top 6 C role. He can play behind Suzuki and let Dvorak eat defensive minutes. I want to give him a shot with MTL personally and not offer him up for Dubois as I assume more will need to be added as well.

Dubois has said he plans to test FA in 2 yrs, if Dach works out and Dubois comes to MTL via FA then $$$ for us.

Will Dach become better than Dubois? Who knows... But let's not throw premium assets at a guy that may be forcing his current teams hands imo.

Their exct ‘’source’’ is BS.

Same one who told them he knew the habs was leaning towards Shane Wright lol.

For all we know MTL was leaning Wright up until the last minute... They met with Slaf again the day of the draft.

And who cares if the source isn't legit. Something to talk about lol. What do you think about Dach on a 2 yr 4m ish contract?

 

[SlafySZN]

When we acquired Dach it because we weren’t able to acquire Dubois. We don’t have the asset or the cap space to acquire Dubois and improve the team.

Nope. Hughes wanted Dach because he fits way more a rebuild on all aspect and for all we know they never wanted Dubois in the first place.

 

[xposbrad]

What was the point of firing Bergevin if you’re just gonna hire people to do the same botched retool shit ?

Some posters forget there is a salary cap.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Nope. Hughes wanted Dach because he fits way more a rebuild on all aspect and for all we know they never wanted Dubois in the first place.

Yeah I tend to think reality aligns with common sense here.

 

[SlafySZN]

He was a 3rd overall pick in 2019 who came into the league too early on a Chicago team that was trying to force things, and missing Toews in 2020-21. He also had a major injury which could help explain his awful faceoff numbers. Not to mention the covid bubbles and crazy schedules the last couple years. He's a 21 year old 6'4 center that can skate and shoot.

Now... My opinion is that he still has it in him to hit a top 6 C role. He can play behind Suzuki and let Dvorak eat defensive minutes. I want to give him a shot with MTL personally and not offer him up for Dubois as I assume more will need to be added as well.

Dubois has said he plans to test FA in 2 yrs, if Dach works out and Dubois comes to MTL via FA then $$$ for us.

Will Dach become better than Dubois? Who knows... But let's not throw premium assets at a guy that may be forcing his current teams hands imo.


For all we know MTL was leaning Wright up until the last minute... They met with Slaf again the day of the draft.

And who cares if the source isn't legit. Something to talk about lol. What do you think about Dach on a 2 yr 4m ish contract?

I’d say 2.8/3 years, something like that.

Hughes called chicago and spoke with dach’s entourage like 3 weeks before the draft so pretty sure they were leaning Slafkovsky and wanted a young center they could help develop with the young guys! Everytime they were speaking about the draft and what kind of player they wanted it wasn’t describing Wright at all.

 

[HomeAndHome]

I’d say 2.8/3 years, something like that.

Hughes called chicago and spoke with dach’s entourage like 3 weeks before the draft so pretty sure they were leaning Slafkovsky and wanted a young center they could help develop with the young guys! Everytime they were speaking about the draft and what kind of player they wanted it wasn’t describing Wright at all.

They may have just been evaluating their options. Option A: Pick Slaf trade for Dach if they can line up a trade with Chi. option B: Pick Wright and use pick 13 or trade it in another trade, etc. Hopefully a few years down the road we'll hear what actually happened the couple days leading up to the draft.

TBH I think they wanted Slaf + Dach as well.

 

[calder candidate]

Nope. Hughes wanted Dach because he fits way more a rebuild on all aspect and for all we know they never wanted Dubois in the first place.

Maybe, my point is that we can stop talking about Dubois until he is a UFA… the decision was already made either KH prefered Dach or decided that Dubois wasn’t worth the price tag.

 

[SlafySZN]

They may have just been evaluating their options. Option A: Pick Slaf trade for Dach if they can line up a trade with Chi. option B: Pick Wright and use pick 13 or trade it in another trade, etc. Hopefully a few years down the road we'll hear what actually happened the couple days leading up to the draft.

TBH I think they wanted Slaf + Dach as well.

Nah Hughes already talked about it, they traded for the 13th pick because chicago wanted picks for Dach and otherwise they wouldn’t have traded Romanov!

 

[HomeAndHome]

Nah Hughes already talked about it, they traded for the 13th pick because chicago wanted picks for Dach and otherwise they wouldn’t have traded Romanov!

Either way, I'm happy we have Dach! Now I think the goal should be build around Suz and Dach. If Dach doesn't work out and we didn't trade other premium assets for Dubois then hopefully we draft one of the top end C's this next draft or Dubois actually comes here via FA.

 

[SlafySZN]

Either way, I'm happy we have Dach! Now I think the goal should be build around Suz and Dach. If Dach doesn't work out and we didn't trade other premium assets for Dubois then hopefully we draft one of the top end C's this next draft or Dubois actually comes here via FA.

Yes exactly, i agree. We might draft a high end 1C in next year’s draft, there’s like 6 centers in the top 10.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Alright, here it goes: When acquiring 24 year-old top-6 Cs (again, that's one year older than freaking Suzuki), win now and futures aren't mutually exclusive. I wouldn't want to give up the '23 pick for him but if Hughes thinks he can give up '24 1st and a couple of other assets because hey, I'm acquiring a piece that I think I can get 8-10 years out of, you're not giving up the future. You're constructing it instead of waiting for it. That's precisely the kind of thing they talked about when they said they'd rather acquire young players than 1st round picks (as we saw with the Lehkonen trade).

So no, if you really think Pierre-Luc Dubois and think he can be a core piece to your team for many years, giving up a couple of picks or slightly younger assets isn't win now. Dubois isn't taking this team from the bottom of the East to the playoffs. Not one player in the league could. But if you want the player and if the price to acquire him can be deemed reasonable (which in this moment in time, it appears that it's not), why would you not go for it? Why would you leave him to another team, another staff, another organizational culture than your own for multiple years? To save a pick? Come on. That's playstation thinking.



I'm not familiar enough with Dach to comment and I'd assume it wouldn't be a 1 for 1 trade, but how likely is it that Dach develops into a better player than Dubois?

Huge difference between acquiring cost and team controlled young players like in the Lehkonen, Chiarot, and Toffoli deals and trading picks and prospects for a player you would be getting for a guaranteed 2 years. The talk of 8 to 10 years is just wishful thinking, since he cannot sign a new contract. Do you know what his demands are even? Maybe he wants 10M a year or he walks.

You are willing to give up the '24 1st for him, when all signs point to it being a very high pick since current contracts are blocking the team from taking any real steps forward to improving the team before then. As I said, this is just like what happened in Toronto when they acquired Kessel and he didn't make a difference and the picks they gave up were 2 1sts and a 2nd. These were 2nd overall and 32nd overall in 2010 and 9th overall in 2011. The players selected in the 1st round were Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton.

Until I know where the team is standing and what the needs are, acquiring Dubois for 2 years serves no purpose. As I said, after two years if there is a need for a player like him, if he is available and the numbers work, you get him then, if he is unavailable you will have enough prospects and draft capital to get someone else via trade or UFA that can do the same job.

Until we get to the point that we can actually play any deserving forward prospects in the line-up instead of most of the current batch of wingers, the team will not be improving at the rate to justify acquiring him at this time. Without knowing who we will get with our 2 first picks in'23 and '24, and how the prospects we have progress, in 2 years Dubois could turn into the overpriced 3rd liner, just like the ones we are desperate to unload now.

One would think that the fans would be patient enough with the rebuild to avoid repeating mistakes like the Drouin trade, and being saddled with contracts like Armia, Gallagher and Price that you have no hope of moving.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Huge difference between acquiring cost and team controlled young players like in the Lehkonen, Chiarot, and Toffoli deals and trading picks and prospects for a player you would be getting for a guaranteed 2 years. The talk of 8 to 10 years is just wishful thinking, since he cannot sign a new contract. Do you know what his demands are even? Maybe he wants 10M a year or he walks.

You are willing to give up the '24 1st for him, when all signs point to it being a very high pick since current contracts are blocking the team from taking any real steps forward to improving the team before then. As I said, this is just like what happened in Toronto when they acquired Kessel and he didn't make a difference and the picks they gave up were 2 1sts and a 2nd. These were 2nd overall and 32nd overall in 2010 and 9th overall in 2011. The players selected in the 1st round were Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton.

Until I know where the team is standing and what the needs are, acquiring Dubois for 2 years serves no purpose. As I said, after two years if there is a need for a player like him, if he is available and the numbers work, you get him then, if he is unavailable you will have enough prospects and draft capital to get someone else via trade or UFA that can do the same job.

Until we get to the point that we can actually play any deserving forward prospects in the line-up instead of most of the current batch of wingers, the team will not be improving at the rate to justify acquiring him at this time. Without knowing who we will get with our 2 first picks in'23 and '24, and how the prospects we have progress, in 2 years Dubois could turn into the overpriced 3rd liner, just like the ones we are desperate to unload now.

One would think that the fans would be patient enough with the rebuild to avoid repeating mistakes like the Drouin trade, and being saddled with contracts like Armia, Gallagher and Price that you have no hope of moving.

It's uncanny how the arguments always devolve to the same silliness when folks start grasping at straws:

Q: HoW Do YoU KnOW He'S NoT AsKiNg fOr 10?
A: Because he's got a career-high of 60 points. Brisson himself would laugh in his face if he said 10. That's without getting into why would a player who's dying to play for your team go ahead and price himself out? There is no logic to this question and probably not even a comparable.

Q: BuT WhAt AbOuT KeSSEl?
A: I don't recall the Maple Leafs having anywhere near the young assets at the time that we have right now. They were a middle team with cheap vets that ended up bottoming out after they acquired Kessel. This isn't remotely the same situation. Nor am I saying we should give up two firsts.

Always the same story. Oh God, never take a risk, never trade a pick because maybe we can get the next Cale Makar! Instead of realizing that no, you probably aren't getting that with whatever pick you get, ever. But please tell me how thinking that Dubois, who's trying to get traded here, signing a long-term deal is wishful thinking. It's astonishing that the weight of your roof isn't collapsing from the weight of the irony.

The Drouin trade isn't bad because we gave up a 19 year-old for a 22 year-old. It's bad because Drouin sucks and gets injured left and right. The idea behind acquiring Dubois that you think he's really good and will be for many years.

And Armia, Price and Gallagher have exactly zero to do with acquiring Dubois. I honestly have no idea why you're bringing them up. You may as well have brought up bringing back Frankie Bouillon and playing him on the PP. There's about as much relation there.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Nope. Hughes wanted Dach because he fits way more a rebuild on all aspect and for all we know they never wanted Dubois in the first place.

I love how you keep repeating the last point even though it's been confirmed that it's not true and that the Canadiens did/do want Dubois and that it's been shown to you. I think this might be the first instance of posters literally lying to themselves to avoid conceding a point they don't like.

 

[HABitual Fan]

It's uncanny how the arguments always devolve to the same silliness when folks start grasping at straws:

Q: HoW Do YoU KnOW He'S NoT AsKiNg fOr 10?
A: Because he's got a career-high of 60 points. Brisson himself would laugh in his face if he said 10. That's without getting into why would a player who's dying to play for your team go ahead and price himself out? There is no logic to this question and probably not even a comparable.

Q: BuT WhAt AbOuT KeSSEl?
A: I don't recall the Maple Leafs having anywhere near the young assets at the time that we have right now. They were a middle team with cheap vets that ended up taking after they acquired Kessel. This isn't remotely the same situation. Nor am I saying we should give up two firsts.

Your hockey takes are of cowardice.
Oh God, never take a risk, never trade a pick because maybe we can get the next Cale Makar! Instead of realizing that no, you probably aren't getting that with whatever pick you get, ever. But please tell me how thinking that Dubois, who's trying to get traded here, signing a long-term deal is wishful thinking. It's astonishing that the weight of your roof isn't collapsing from the weight of the irony.

The Drouin trade isn't bad because we gave up a 19 year-old for a 22 year-old. It's bad because Drouin sucks and gets injured left and right. The idea behind acquiring Dubois that you think he's really good and will be for many years.

And Armia, Price and Gallagher have exactly zero to do with acquiring Dubois. I honestly have no idea why you're bringing them up. You may as well have brought up bringing back Frankie Bouillon and playing him on the PP. There's about as much relation there.

What are you 13?

Mixing uppercase and lowercase letters does nothing to support your argument as that of an intelligent adult open to discussing the topic at hand, in fact just the opposite.

 

[DAChampion]

People who worry that acquiring Dubois reduces the odds of acquiring Bedard are mathematically illiterate.

The reduction in odds is something like 10% to 7% or something like that. It's a very small number. That delta of 3% or whatever gets compared to the benefits of acquiring Dubois, of whomever the Habs would pick at 5th, and of the fact that having Dubois night improve the trade value of some of the Habs deadline rentals.

 

[SlafySZN]

I love how you keep repeating the last point even though it's been confirmed that it's not true and that the Canadiens did/do want Dubois and that it's been shown to you. I think this might be the first instance of posters literally lying to themselves to avoid conceding a point they don't like.

It seems to trigger you each time

Nothing as been confirmed. Hughes smiling doesn’t mean anything!

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It seems to trigger you each time

Nothing as been confirmed. Hughes smiling doesn’t mean anything!

The Athletic confirmed it.

 

[Guy Larose]

The Athletic confirmed it.

Don't let facts get in the way of his narrative. It's been confirmed quite a few times by different sources but I guess he knows best. I just hardly ever post here anymore because a) a lot of people are ridiculous and don't even use common sense and b) it's like groundhog day with everything being repeated page after page...it's sad really. Some of these people need a life instead of always being on here.

 

[HomeAndHome]

No those posters seem to think dach is as good a Dubois or will be, which will never happen

You think it's out of the realm of possibility Dach becomes a 60 point player in the next 3 yrs?

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Don't let facts get in the way of his narrative. It's been confirmed quite a few times by different sources but I guess he knows best. I just hardly ever post here anymore because a) a lot of people are ridiculous and don't even use common sense and b) it's like groundhog day with everything being repeated page after page...it's sad really. Some of these people need a life instead of always being on here.

Thanks for the illuminating tidbit. Given this insight, now we can strive for your exalted plane of existence.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Not allowed until January

I'm aware. It'll either be an extension in principle or Habs will wait I think

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Don't let facts get in the way of his narrative. It's been confirmed quite a few times by different sources but I guess he knows best. I just hardly ever post here anymore because a) a lot of people are ridiculous and don't even use common sense and b) it's like groundhog day with everything being repeated page after page...it's sad really. Some of these people need a life instead of always being on here.

Yep, slowly getting here regarding HFHabs too. I screw around here a bit while I'm at work and largely avoid it when I'm off but even that's getting lame now. People can't think of anything beyond losing as many games as possible. Can't discuss a single thing rationally without reverting back to it. Truly broken.

 

[Guy Larose]

Thanks for the illuminating tidbit. Given this insight, now we can strive for your exalted plane of existence.

You're very welcome! You can only hope.

 

[Runner77]

He also had a major injury which could help explain his awful faceoff numbers.

I speculated just as you did, that Dach’s faceoff % may have been impacted by his injury.

However, @Adam Michaels dug up the numbers in another thread (reprised in italics below) and showed that there was no correlation. He’s always been subpar at faceoffs:

It's been a weakness of his since junior.

In Junior:
2017-18 (41%)
2018-19 (41%) - Year of his draft

In Pros:
2019-20 (34%)
2020-21 (40%) - This was after his injury at the WJC
2021-22 (33%)

As others have argued, this part of his game can be improved upon and won’t matter as much if he shows that he can be offensively productive.

 

[Guy Larose]

Yup
My expectations are low
And do you think Dubois won’t get more than 60 and can’t score 30 or more
Dubois is and will always be the better player
That doesn’t mean dach can’t be a good player getting 40-45 pts
Dubois is a more skillful player

This is exactly what I meant...you talk in absolutes about Dach when he's only 21 and was hampered with a big injury. You know nothing for sure with him.