HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #80

[Sterling Archer]

Matter of PLD does the same

I mean he already has, without actually saying the exact words. At least I’m public.

 

[sampollock]

I mean he already has, without actually saying the exact words. At least I’m public.

What he did was fire a shot over the bow so Chevy knows that the next move may be more vocal

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

LOL at Dubois age 24 being considered too old for the rebuild. Suzuki is only one year younger and taking up so much cap space - get rid of him!!

I can't believe that we still have posters pretending acquiring 24-year olds is a win now move. Unbelievable.

Flawed context.

Dubois is not just for the now. It's for the now and future. You're smarter than that so avoid exaggeration to prove your point

Trading futures? That has to be quantified. We are not trading Grade A assets like Guhle. If it's a Trouba price (20th and Pionk), I'm doing it.

The good news here is Dubois can't be extended until Jan now with his 1 year deal in place. Both the Habs and Jets can gather way more information from now till then. Jets can evaluate a prospect like Kidney and Habs can look at where the Panthers pick is tracking.

We are interested in Dubois, not desperate. If the cost is something we can afford and the salary in matches salary out, we would be dumb to not engage. Chances the Panthers pick and Kidney are better than Dubois is slim.

...and herein lies the issue with the Dubois interest...no one is even considering how much Chevy is going to want for a CORE piece of his team...if the price was as low as Florida's 1st, Dvorak, and Kidney, PLD would have already been a Hab at the Draft and Chevy would have probably been relieved of his post...Winnipeg will want at least one CORE future back...Chevy knows he has two years to maximize the return for PLD and isn't going to just give him away for pennies on the dollar right now or at the deadline or next offseason or whenever...it's going to cost to acquire him and the Habs atm are not in the position to let any CORE piece(s) go when HuGo too can play the waiting game and see if they can whittle that price down while other GMs weigh the Pros & Cons of acquiring PLD and possibly just having him walk in two years...patience is the Virtue that seems to be severely lacking on this Board this offseason, which is rather surprising considering that we are still atm a Bottom Feeder and much more in for the Discard for Bedard than we are making a Playoff run...

 

[SlafySZN]

I wonder if it will end up being Dach for Dubois.

I still don’t get the Dach trade, there’s a good chance we have the opportunity to get a better player then him in next year’s draft. I’m not against getting him, it’s the why did we get him.

Because he’s a 21 years old skilled C with a lot of potential?

The player they’ll draft next year will be better than Dubois too.

 

[SlafySZN]

I suggest not now if Hugo wants to tank for the 2023 draft. But, if Dubois is gone to another team soon it would be an opportunity lost. But also Habs could have Dubois this year and still pick between 1st and 5th in 2013. Dubois is not Bergeron or Crosby and there is a unexperimented D and a lot of meh players in the team. The team could tank even with Dubois this year. What do you think?

Then if the team is the same with or without him why would you want him if he doesn’t change anything? He’s not a player the team absolutely need.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Then if the team is the same with or without him why would you want him if he doesn’t change anything? He’s not a player the team absolutely need.

A second line center is not a player that a team absolutely needs, therefore the trade offer will and should be what we can afford, and Winnipeg may not bite.

So be it.

But Dubois being too old or that he might have to be paid a 2nd line center's salary are not reasons to refuse to make an offer.

Finally, Discarding for Bedard is a ridiculous strategy and goes in the wrong direction.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

A second line center is not a player that a team absolutely needs, therefore the trade offer will and should be what we can afford, and Winnipeg may not bite.

So be it.

But Dubois being too old or that he might have to be paid a 2nd line center's salary are not reasons to refuse to make an offer.

Finally, Discarding for Bedard is a ridiculous strategy and goes in the wrong direction.

...we are going to suck badly this year; us having a bit of fun with "tanking" is just that, fun...no one wants this but it is just being realistic that this is most certainly not our year...as for Dubois, again you are ignoring what people are saying in here; no one is saying a 24 year old is TOO OLD, what we are saying is that we are not in the right place as a team to be sending CORE pieces out for one of Winnipeg's...and yes, PLD is going to cost alot right now...Chevy would be burned at the stake if he gave him away for something like Florida's 1st, Dvorak, and a mid-tier prospect like Kidney...again, he'd be a Hab already if that was the price...

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Then if the team is the same with or without him why would you want him if he doesn’t change anything? He’s not a player the team absolutely need.

He's a player we'll absolutely need in 2 or 3 years. His age fits the next window. Better have him sooner than never, I mean this year or next year than never. Because we don't know if we'll have a good center next draft and that player we'll draft will be too young. People are snobbing PLD like if a center was suddendly easy to acquire. Habs are one of 32 teams. Bruins can be an attractive market for a good center when Bergeron will retire or slow down. Boston is just an example among others, Rangers are attractive too. If Habs are lazy or nonchalant for getting a quality center, they'll end up having none (only Suzuki), like for the past 30 years. A duo of Suzuki and Dubois is interresting enough, it's better than the Koivu years when the second center was Ribeiro, Bonk, Smolinsky or Perreault. And there is Dach in the picture, and Farrell too. It's starting to get interresting.

What I like of Su-Du is they are different, like two ways to create something in offence. Suzuki is finesse and Dubois is sandpaper. This create opportunities for different wingers too.

 

[BaseballCoach]

A second line center is not a player that a team absolutely needs, therefore the trade offer will and should be what we can afford, and Winnipeg may not bite.

So be it.

But Dubois being too old or that he might have to be paid a 2nd line center's salary are not reasons to refuse to make an offer.

Finally, Discarding for Bedard is a ridiculous strategy and goes in the wrong direction.

...we are going to suck badly this year; us having a bit of fun with "tanking" is just that, fun...no one wants this but it is just being realistic that this is most certainly not our year...as for Dubois, again you are ignoring what people are saying in here; no one is saying a 24 year old is TOO OLD, what we are saying is that we are not in the right place as a team to be sending CORE pieces out for one of Winnipeg's...and yes, PLD is going to cost alot right now...Chevy would be burned at the stake if he gave him away for something like Florida's 1st, Dvorak, and a mid-tier prospect like Kidney...again, he'd be a Hab already if that was the price...

Do you like to just hear yourself talk? How could you possibly say I am 'ignoring' what you said when I just wrote what I wrote.

Highlighted your blinders for you.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He's a player we'll absolutely need in 2 or 3 years. His age fits the next window. Better have him sooner than never, I mean this year or next year than never. Because we don't know if we'll have a good center next draft and that player we'll draft will be too young. People are snobbing PLD like if a center was suddendly easy to acquire. Habs are one of 32 teams. Bruins can be an attractive market for a good center when Bergeron will retire or slow down. Boston is just an example among others, Rangers are attractive too. If Habs are lazy or nonchalant for getting a quality center, they'll end up having none (only Suzuki), like for the past 30 years. A duo of Suzuki and Dubois is interresting enough, it's better than the Koivu years when the second center was Ribeiro, Bonk, Smolinsky or Perreault. And there is Dach in the picture, and Farrell too. It's starting to get interresting.

Dubois is only 24, but Dvorak is only 26. While I am down for making an offer on PLD, it is not impossible that the right middle six center is already on the team. Dvorak is signed up to age 29, and might well score points within striking distance of PLD given similar usage. If Hugo think that Dach could step up within a year or two, then Dvorak could be a good player to round out the top 3 while we wait for either a top C in the draft or for another opportunity at PLD or a different guy becomes available.

There is an opportunity now, but we also have other options and can make a fair but not crazy offer.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

A second line center is not a player that a team absolutely needs, therefore the trade offer will and should be what we can afford, and Winnipeg may not bite.

So be it.

But Dubois being too old or that he might have to be paid a 2nd line center's salary are not reasons to refuse to make an offer.

Finally, Discarding for Bedard is a ridiculous strategy and goes in the wrong direction.

To get Bedard, the team have to suck badly, more than some other bad teams. And to get Bedard there is a lottery too. If Habs pick 3rd overall, is there is a quality center available? And desperatly they will pick by position and that center will be a Kotkaniemi 2.0?

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Do you like to just hear yourself talk? How could you possibly say I am 'ignoring' what you said when I just wrote what I wrote.

Highlighted your blinders for you.

...no, you post it and then basically ignore it later in your same posts while just screaming about how we all apparently said he was too old and that's why we shouldn't trade for him now...you can Pot this all you want, Kettle; your basic argument back at anyone who tries to point out that this isn't NHL22 is repeating that he isn't too old...sorry about throwing Logic and Reality back at you, but it is what it is, amigo...

 

[jaffy27]

Because he’s a 21 years old skilled C with a lot of potential?

The player they’ll draft next year will be better than Dubois too.

You sure about that??

I mean if we are drafting top 4 theres a very good chance, top 2 is just about a certainty but how do you know Benson will translate to an effective star player in the NHL??

We got to be careful here in pegging these players as star players that with certainty will be better then Dubois.

You can look at their stats and rave of how well they are doing….Dubois went into his draft scoring 40+ goals and 100pts with 110+ PIM’s

I love the 2023 crop but lets pull the reigns on assumptions of automatic greatness and surpassing current NHL stars.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

To get Bedard, the team have to suck badly, more than some other bad teams. And to get Bedard there is a lottery too. If Habs pick 3rd overall, is there is a quality center available? And desperatly they will pick by position and that center will be a Kotkaniemi 2.0?

...the Centre crop in the 2023 Draft is ridiculously deep, especially in the early 1st...I know we post foolishness like Discard for Bedard, but landing anywhere in the Top 7 or 8 should net us a C with high potential...

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Dubois is only 24, but Dvorak is only 26. While I am down for making an offer on PLD, it is not impossible that the right middle six center is already on the team. Dvorak is signed up to age 29, and might well score points within striking distance of PLD given similar usage. If Hugo think that Dach could step up within a year or two, then Dvorak could be a good player to round out the top 3 while we wait for either a top C in the draft or for another opportunity at PLD or a different guy becomes available.

There is an opportunity now, but we also have other options and can make a fair but not crazy offer.

The thing is : there is no way Dvorak fits in the same sentence of Dubois. Maybe because I value Dvorak very low. I wasn't impress by him last year. Except for few games at the end, he was a slow skater and didn't bring anything except winning FO. Dubois is 3 times better, even if he's unhappy and underperforming for his potential. I don't want Habs to overpay for Dubois. The right offer, the right price and I agree.

...the Centre crop in the 2023 Draft is ridiculously deep, especially in the early 1st...I know we post foolishness like Discard for Bedard, but landing anywhere in the Top 7 or 8 should net us a C with high potential...

Are you sure that center in the top 7 will be better than Dubois? How much time that center will take to developp? Are you sure you are not overrating those top 7, except Bedard?

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Are you sure that center in the top 7 will be better than Dubois? How much time that center will take to developp? Are you sure you are not overrating those top 7, except Bedard?

1. No, no one is "sure" about any prospect, including Bedard...
2. A few years, at least...good thing we're literally years away from contending so we have time...
3. I personally don't believe so at this point...at this point...we have to see what happens this season...that said, this "looks" to be the deepest Draft since '03...

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

1. No, no one is "sure" about any prospect, including Bedard...
2. A few years, at least...good thing we're literally years away from contending so we have time...
3. I personally don't believe so at this point...at this point...we have to see what happens this season...that said, this "looks" to be the deepest Draft since '03...

What I wrote previously is we can have Dubois and draft very high. Because Price looks done, Allen is injury prone too, Monty isn't a top goalie, our D is not that good. There will be D playing their first years. Romanov, Kulak, Weber, Petry and Chiarot are gone.
Lehkonen, Toffoli and Danault are gone. Beleive me, with or without Dubois, this team will suck and they will have a good chance to draft Bedard. (or whoever in the top 5)

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

What I wrote previously is we can have Dubois and draft very high. Because Price looks done, Allen is injury prone too, Monty isn't a top goalie, our D is not that good. There will be D playing their first years. Romanov, Kulak, Weber, Petry and Chiarot are gone.
Lehkonen, Toffoli and Danault are gone. Beleive me, with or without Dubois, this team will suck and they will have a good chance to draft Bedard. (or whoever in the top 5)

...I get that, amigo, but you're ignoring what it's going to cost to get him here...if he were cheap-ish, he'd be here already and Dach wouldn't...think about it; Romy and a mid rounder went for 13th OA...Dach went for 13th plus another mid rounder...thinking that we're going to get PLD for a Florida 1st and a few scraps is not realistic; Chevy will want CORE pieces to move one of his big CORE pieces...if he takes pennies back, he's going to be out of a job and he probably knows it...

 

[Belial]

What I wrote previously is we can have Dubois and draft very high. Because Price looks done, Allen is injury prone too, Monty isn't a top goalie, our D is not that good. There will be D playing their first years. Romanov, Kulak, Weber, Petry and Chiarot are gone.
Lehkonen, Toffoli and Danault are gone. Beleive me, with or without Dubois, this team will suck and they will have a good chance to draft Bedard. (or whoever in the top 5)

There's absolutely no point in trading for Dubois right now if Winnipeg is asking for a big return, and they're clearly asking for the moon cuz if not he would be here.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

1. No, no one is "sure" about any prospect, including Bedard...
2. A few years, at least...good thing we're literally years away from contending so we have time...
3. I personally don't believe so at this point...at this point...we have to see what happens this season...that said, this "looks" to be the deepest Draft since '03...

What I wrote previously is we can have Dubois and draft very high. Because Price looks done, Allen is injury prone too, Monty isn't a top goalie, our D is not that good. There will be D playing their first years. Romanov, Kulak, Weber, Petry and Chiarot are gone.
Lehkonen, Toffoli and Danault are gone. Beleive me, with or without Dubois, this team will suck and they will have a good chance to draft Bedard.

...I get that, amigo, but you're ignoring what it's going to cost to get him here...if he were cheap-ish, he'd be here already and Dach wouldn't...think about it; Romy and a mid rounder went for 13th OA...Dach went for 13th plus another mid rounder...thinking that we're going to get PLD for a Florida 1st and a few scraps is not realistic; Chevy will want CORE pieces to move one of his big CORE pieces...if he takes pennies back, he's going to be out of a job and he probably knows it...

Yes but I feel there is an half-open door here, maybe there is a planet alignment for HoGo to conclude a nice deal.
This is me dreaming, maybe the cool breeze of this early august midnight have something to do, no booze or smoke involved, only a stach of raspberry, lol.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

What I wrote previously is we can have Dubois and draft very high. Because Price looks done, Allen is injury prone too, Monty isn't a top goalie, our D is not that good. There will be D playing their first years. Romanov, Kulak, Weber, Petry and Chiarot are gone.
Lehkonen, Toffoli and Danault are gone. Beleive me, with or without Dubois, this team will suck and they will have a good chance to draft Bedard.

Yes but I feel there is an half-open door here, maybe there is a planet alignment for HoGo to conclude a nice deal.
This is me dreaming, maybe the cool breeze of this early august midnight have something to do, no booze or smoke involved, only a stach of raspberry, lol.

...I like the dream, amigo...I just don't see it anywhere near Reality and I'm too old & jaded to be an Optimist...

 

[BaseballCoach]

The thing is : there is no way Dvorak fits in the same sentence of Dubois. Maybe because I value Dvorak very low. I wasn't impress by him last year. Except for few games at the end, he was a slow skater and didn't bring anything except winning FO. Dubois is 3 times better, even if he's unhappy and underperforming for his potential.

Imagine that Dubois last year, one of his two 60 point seasons, had wingers like Drouin, Gallagher and Hoffman instead of Ehlers, Connor, Copp and Wheeler. Imagine that his ES-PP time went down 2.40 minutes per game to Dvorak's level and that he had to expend energy killing penalties like Dvorak did.

Then tell us how many more points Dubois would have had than Dvorak.

I'd say not that many. You can't underestimate the drag that Gallagher and Drouin put on Dvorak's production. He had crappy wingers in Arizona too.

Dubois is better but the difference is less than many may think. How did Dvorak do with Mitch Marner on his wing?

 

[HabzSauce]

There is no doubt about it. Mailloux has potential. Habs need to stay patient with him.

How's his overall IQ in your opinion?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Matter of PLD does the same

Yes. At some point he will need to be traded if he doesn't change his mind about staying in Winnipeg.

But Cheveldayoff has shown patience before. So he I don't expect him to rush into anything just yet.

 

[Belial]

How's his overall IQ in your opinion?

Looked ok in the 12 games he played last season.

But the sample size is so small with this kid that it's really tough to evaluate.

Hopefully, he can stay healthy next season and play a good amount of games.