Speculation: Trade Deadline

[Ghosts Beer]

Come on, if you’re so sensitive to my different perspective that you want to make it personal, at least give me something with a little creativity.

 

[FlyTimmo]

What is this nonsense about Ghost being a factor in the garbage powerplay?

Yeah it isn't because Simmonds is a shell of what he used to be or that Couturier was being extremely utilized to the point where it was almost 4v4. Or that Voracek has the shot of a 14 year old, or that the powerplay scheme is extremely predictable and the set up has largely been the same for years.

No it is cause Ghost sucks of course!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

What is this nonsense about Ghost being a factor in the garbage powerplay?

Yeah it isn't because Simmonds is a shell of what he used to be or that Couturier was being extremely utilized to the point where it was almost 4v4. Or that Voracek has the shot of a 14 year old, or that the powerplay scheme is extremely predictable and the set up has largely been the same for years.

No it is cause Ghost sucks of course!

Straw man.

 

[Tripod]

Attachment becomes a problem when you close your eyes & ears & refuse to consider differing perspectives as anything but moronic. There are plenty of cases that don’t turn out in favor of attachment. See, for example, some of the Kings’ & Blackhawks contracts in recent years.

I’m simply saying don’t be so quick to dismiss input you may not like to hear.

It's being dismissed because you have yet to come up with a valid argument showing how trading Ghost, makes the Flyers better.

 

[deadhead]

The idea that we trade Simmonds (getting rid of AMac, Lehtera, and even trading Hagg will have zero impact on this team) and otherwise stand pat on a team that is 28th in the league is a bit optimistic, are you expecting the "magic" coach?

The Islanders were a fluke situation, Edmonton is more "normal," Hitchcock hssn't made a lick of difference. Q couldn't save Chicago two years ago (76 points), I doubt he's gonna be worth a 20 point swing.

At some point you have to make major changes, and to make those changes, you have to trade quality for quality - or do you think you can trade Hagg and a 2nd rd pick for a top four veteran RHD?

So who would you be willing to trade (and don't list the scrubs, we'd be lucky to get 6th rd picks for them)?
Which starters with real value, which prospects (Sushko has no value, neither does Bunnaman)?

As far as FA, what matters isn't the $30+M next year but the money in three years after we sign RFA contracts with Provorov, Sanheim, TK, Patrick, Lindblom and Hart - which will be $20+M. So we can afford maybe ONE long-term FA contract unless we jettison JVR/Voracek.

 

[Curufinwe]

Ghost for Marner would make the Flyers better, of course.

But let's see some realistic targets.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's being dismissed because you have yet to come up with a valid argument showing how trading Ghost, makes the Flyers better.

I’ve provided perfectly good reasons in support of *being willing to trade him* dependent of course on the return. It just appears you disagree with my reasons. Your disagreement does not render my position invalid.

 

[Here4ThaLids]

My eyes tend to glaze over once the needless criticism starts, but here's a point I don't recall seeing: the Flyers only have three defensemen who can skate the puck out of the defensive zone and Ghost is significantly better at it than Provorov and Sanheim, at least for now.

The possession/transition game is extraordinarily important and doesn't show up in traditional counting stats. One of the primary reasons MacDonald and Hagg are so bad: once the puck enters the defensive zone, it tends to stay there. Often for 30 or even 45 seconds at a time, usually requiring one or two forwards to come back lower than they should, sometimes resulting in an unforced icing.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Here's a solution.

 

[macleish1974]

Here's a solution.

Problem is TJ is out of action. Ghost on the fore-check.......oh yes......

 

[YEM]

I’ve provided perfectly good reasons in support of *being willing to trade him*

incorrect

 

[deadhead]

Then add in that Ghost has proven he can play the right side at an elite level.

Well, actually no.
He looked good at RHD for half a season last year, bad in the playoffs, bad this year.
Sanheim is now playing RHD with Provorov and he also looks worse doing so.
Both players look more comfortable on the left side. Ghost looked solid with Gudas, as does Sanheim.

So maybe we really do need a top 4 veteran RHD?
The same way we need a RW who can shoot to balance out our top 9?
Doesn't mean you sell the house, but you certainly keep it in mind if the opportunity arises to get one.

Provorov - veteran RHD
Ghost/Sanheim - Gudas
Morin/Hagg - Myers

would be a solid, balanced group next season.

 

[Striiker]

No matter how many facts you jam in their faces, their irrational hatred for Ghost won't be defeated.

They've decided to actively lie and ignore the truth, even though they've been caught and corrected so many times.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Provorov - veteran RHD
Ghost/Sanheim - Gudas
Morin/Hagg - Myers

This is Hakstokian levels of role rigidity that serves absolutely no purpose. You're making yourself worse on the whole by design.

 

[Striiker]

This is Hakstokian levels of role rigidity that serves absolutely no purpose.

Look who you're talking to.

Being compared to his hero is a compliment.

 

[Tripod]

The idea that we trade Simmonds (getting rid of AMac, Lehtera, and even trading Hagg will have zero impact on this team) and otherwise stand pat on a team that is 28th in the league is a bit optimistic, are you expecting the "magic" coach?

The Islanders were a fluke situation, Edmonton is more "normal," Hitchcock hssn't made a lick of difference. Q couldn't save Chicago two years ago (76 points), I doubt he's gonna be worth a 20 point swing.

At some point you have to make major changes, and to make those changes, you have to trade quality for quality - or do you think you can trade Hagg and a 2nd rd pick for a top four veteran RHD?

So who would you be willing to trade (and don't list the scrubs, we'd be lucky to get 6th rd picks for them)?
Which starters with real value, which prospects (Sushko has no value, neither does Bunnaman)?

As far as FA, what matters isn't the $30+M next year but the money in three years after we sign RFA contracts with Provorov, Sanheim, TK, Patrick, Lindblom and Hart - which will be $20+M. So we can afford maybe ONE long-term FA contract unless we jettison JVR/Voracek.

I will take this on.

No one is saying trade Simmonds then do nothing. But as you yourself have said, the return from Simmonds could help fix some issues or the return for Simmonds can be used to acquire a NEED. As you have said many times, we could get a 1st for Simmonds, they trade that 1st near draft day to add a forward to help us next year.

You can't honestly believe that getting rid of Lehtera and especially AMac has no impact on the team. Come on.

Coaching DOES matter. And our last 3 coaches have been under average to trash on a scale. Especially when you add in special teams.

Most people want that 1 UFA winger to finish off the top 9.

Giroux Couts TK
JVR Patrick Jake
Lindblom Frost ????

That tends to be the top 9 that most talk about next year. We have 4th line guys in Laughton, NAK, Weise, Pimp, and all other prospects in the AHL and add on what could be Allison and Laczynski as possible options. But most see that we can use another top 9 player. And I say player because Lindblom can always move to RW, or Giroux to C, etc... Then on D:

Provy Ghost
Sanheim Gudas
Morin Myers
Hagg AMAc

We have waited patiently for all our D to arrive. Trading Ghost who has proven to do things our other Dman have not done, can not be ignored. Then add in that Gudas only has 1 year left. And that Morin and Myers have yet to prove anything yet. Upgrading on Hagg makes sense. And if that pushes Morin to the #7 Dman for a year or until Gudas is moved, so be it.

We have so many assets that can be used to help this team that we can afford to overpay in futures for quality. So use that. Looking at the above lineup AND if we did sign a UFA...use Stone as an example...we have no spot for Allison, the 1st we get for Simmonds, Laczynski, O'Brien, etc... We can add ina goalie prospect in any deal. We can add in any D prospect not named Myers. We have that ability now.

Come trade day, picks value always become inflated...just like how trade deadline time, players value does the same. If we get a 1st for Simmonds this year, that 1st can be used as the START of a deal to add a player who helps us if we want. Trading away a top 4 cost controlled Dman who can be elite should be one of the last things we move unless it's a clear upgrade on D.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

incorrect

Please submit your application for Official Arbiter of right & wrong along with Madrigal’s. Again, we have received a high volume of applicants for this position & do not accept self-appointments. Resume, list of references, & salary requirements are required, & you must agree to a background check & drug test. Regards.

 

[YEM]

Please submit your application for Official Arbiter of right & wrong along with Madrigal’s. Again, we have received a high volume of applicants for this position & do not accept self-appointments. Resume, list of references, & salary requirements are required, & you must agree to a background check & drug test. Regards.

you seem so concerned with logical fallacies but don't mind using them [hypocrite]
your post here is an example of a logical fallacy; not only are you moving the goalposts, but you've moved along to Argument by Laziness: you've become insulted that yr opinion is not being treated with respect, and have moved along to the personal insults that you whined about on the previous page.

 

[duffy9748]

Not at the deadline, but I’m surprised Duchene’s name hasn’t been mentioned much on here as a potential target in the offseason. I’d prefer Panarin/Stone but I think his skating will allow him to produce for a long time. He’d be a good fit short term and long term. Start him or Giroux at center until Frost is ready and then move both to the wing.

Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Duchene-Voracek
Lindblom-Patrick-X

Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
JVR-Patrick-Duchene
Lindblom-Frost-Voracek

 

[Ghosts Beer]

you seem so concerned with logical fallacies but don't mind using them [hypocrite]
your post here is an example of a logical fallacy; not only are you moving the goalposts, but you've moved along to Argument by Laziness: you've become insulted that yr opinion is not being treated with respect, and have moved along to the personal insults that you whined about on the previous page.

Your post is an example of a lack of sense of humor. However, your decree that the reasons I supplied for being willing to trade Ghost (dependent upon return) are “incorrect” is simply a difference of opinion presented as if it were fact.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Like when all those people thought Couturier could be more than the 3C he was at age 20. If only they weren't so attached they would have realized he was a waste of the 8th pick in the draft years ago.

Not really a great comparable. People having reservations about a 20-year-old Couturier were being impatient. Not that I agree with some of the positions in this thread, but Ghost is 26 in April...I don't think he's got nearly the same development runway left ahead of him as a 20 year old Couts. So, very different situations.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Gonna go ahead and post this again so everyone keeps in mind how "objective" he's been all year in regards to Ghost. Seeing what he wants to see, not reality. The agenda couldn't be more clear.

And lets toss this one in too, to further destroy any remains of credibility

Sluuuuuuuuuuuurp.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Forgive my ignorance, but what type of player is Fabbro supposed to be?

The kind that cant get on the NHL ice, just like Myers (this year), Morin (last year) and Zamula (next year)

 

[VladDrag]

This thread sucks.

 

[Oskar Man]

Ghost strikes me as an ideal piece for a team needing an offensive boost, not as a foundational player for a rebuilding team.

The Flyers are 27th in goals scored. We need him.