Speculation: Trade Deadline

[baudib1]

I don’t know how you can be so sure what you’re going to get out of Ghost in the future & his turnovers infuriate me. I’m not saying give him away; I’m saying he has some of the best trade value on the team & I’d prefer to leverage that to fill their need for more gamebreaking skill at forward.

Ghost's turnovers are really low this year.

 

[Striiker]

Hexy can't play wing dude.

We need to upgrade our goalie goal scoring too.

 

[wasup]

You're acting as if I said defense doesn't matter at all.

Of course it does, but the fact is nothing is more important or more valuable than scoring. It's literally the thing that wins you games. Scoring is tangible, indisputable proof that a player helped his team. Defensive play is valuable too, but there's too many intangible elements and "ifs" involved for it to be definitively evaluated.

A goal equals a goal. End of story. No guessing.
A great defensive play MIGHT have prevented a goal... or maybe the goalie makes the save or the opposing player misses the shot.

Then you pick a bunch of meaningless examples of teams/players that score but suck defensively, as if you couldn't find just as many example of failures because of a lack of scoring. That proved nothing.

And you want to talk about the playoffs?
Last year the Caps were the 9th best offensive team during the regular season, 16th best defensive team. The year before the Penguins were the #1 offensive team, 17th defensively. So I'd say scoring is pretty important.

Looks like you just suffer from that same outdated defensive reverence all the antiquated scouts/GMs/coaches/players/fans do. You want to act like it's most important and offense is secondary, when that's simply not the case.

There's a reason McDavid is the best and most valuable player in the league. Nobody in their right mind would trade him in a 1 for 1 deal for the best defensive player in the league (ignoring things like age or whatever else). Same concept for Ghost, which was my original point. I'm not trading a proven top-tier offensive defensemen for a more expensive, worse offensive, bigger, defensively-minded player.

But your original post i attached to was you calling Trouba far worse offensivly . I am also a Winnipeg Jet fan and go to about 5 games a year and watch most other on TV and Trouba has pretty good offence to his game . He does not get much powerplay at all they use big Buff up high and 4 forwards . Trouba has 23 points and is plus 15 and plays against the other teams top players , Ghost has 20 points and is minus 12 and gets lots of power play points , Provo has 20 points and is minus 14 .
My big beef with you is under valuing guys on other teams you know very little about and over valuing some of our own players . If i got a chance to trade Ghost for Trouba straight up it would be done immediately .
Morrissey Trouba then Big Buff and in that order are Winnipeg's D core most valuable . Buff will have the most points cause he gets the PP time but defensive decisions are sometimes very questionable and he is up behind the other teams goal far to often ..












d

 

[Magua]

Ghost's turnovers are really low this year.

You haven’t seen the proprietary stats he has in his head.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Ghost's turnovers are really low this year.

If you believe that, then you haven’t been watching him play.

 

[Young Sandwich]

Striiker and Madrigal right now:

 

[klutch]

Trading for Ghost is a step backwards. Makes absolutely no sense since trading would get you either
A. a forward which then makes the defense even more vulnerable.
B. A defensemen of equal or lesser value that does nothing to improve the team

He hasn’t had a great year, it happens. The whole team was struggling and record shows. I don’t even think his defense has been that poor, and I don’t think his offense has been that poor. His turnovers and vision at moments seem to be the hiccup. I think it’s a player trying too hard, he needs to take a step back and refresh. He and Provorov will be fine.

 

[Bruckuss]

You don't trade an asset like ghost for anything short of a serious overpayment to make you better instantly (like a proven, young, top RHD with term) - lots of those available, right? Most of the team has struggled this year, only players moving out should be those who have hit their peaks, and ideally those who can be covered from within the org.

Too much uncertainty in our own pool to consider bringing in other unproven talent, gotta be quantity (packages) going out for quality coming in. Obviously we should be selling in the short term, which sucks, but it's necessary if you want to truly contend.

Dumping Ghost is exactly the type of move that comes back to haunt you for the next 5-10 years when he regains form elsewhere. Not "untouchable" per say, but it's gotta be equally special coming back to even get consideration IMO

 

[The Madrigal]

Striiker and Madrigal right now:

Lol, never thought I'd see the day but you are absolutely correct.

 

[Striiker]

But your original post i attached to was you calling Trouba far worse offensivly . I am also a Winnipeg Jet fan and go to about 5 games a year and watch most other on TV and Trouba has pretty good offence to his game . He does not get much powerplay at all they use big Buff up high and 4 forwards . Trouba has 23 points and is plus 15 and plays against the other teams top players , Ghost has 20 points and is minus 12 and gets lots of power play points , Provo has 20 points and is minus 14 .

Well he is worse offensively. That shouldn't even be a question unless you're basing this off of only this one fluke year... where, by the way, the Jets are 8th in goals and the Flyers are 27th.

In a far larger sample size, the previous three years, it's not even close.

Ghost
150 points
218 games
0.69 P/GP

Trouba
78 points
196 games
0.40 P/GP

So yes, I'll go ahead and stick with "far worse offensively". A factually correct comparative statement. I didn't say he's horrible offensively, just that Ghost is much better. In regards to PP points, if he was nearly as good as Ghost is on the PP, nobody would be ahead of him on the Jets depth chart. Ghost has a legit claim to be the best PP defensemen in the league.

And I wont even comment on how completely useless +/- is because that should be obvious.

My big beef with you is under valuing guys on other teams you know very little about and over valuing some of our own players . If i got a chance to trade Ghost for Trouba straight up it would be done immediately .

Now this part is odd to me.

I have no problem with anyone on here not liking me, in fact I'd assume most don't, but this just seems strange because I very very very rarely comment on the value of other teams players, so I have no idea where this complaint is coming from. I specifically don't do that or ever do stuff like make up hypothetical trades because I've admitted many times that my viewings of many players/prospects isn't enough to have a valuable opinion of them. For many, I may know who they are and what they're good and bad at, but I can't break them down like I could a Flyers player, which by my own standards isn't enough.... so I don't.

Before this simple comment on Trouba, hardly even an evaluation, when was the last time I even discussed a player from another team, outside of a passing comment? I often comment on types of players, and I stand by those comments 100%, but not on specific guys.

And yeah, I've gathered that you'd do that deal immediately. I obviously disagree.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You haven’t seen the proprietary stats he has in his head.

You’re acting like a guy who would ignore the sun shining brightly in the mid-sky & insist it’s night because your broken clock reads 11 pm.

 

[The Madrigal]

You’re acting like a guy who would ignore the sun shining brightly in the mid-sky & insist it’s night because your broken clock reads 11 pm.

 

[Magua]

You’re acting like a guy who would ignore the sun shining brightly in the mid-sky & insist it’s night because your broken clock reads 11 pm.

You’re acting like a guy who would say our sun is brighter than all other suns in the universe simply because you look up at it in the sky with your eyes and decide it’s a fact.

 

[wasup]

Well he is worse offensively. That shouldn't even be a question unless you're basing this off of only this one fluke year... where, by the way, the Jets are 8th in goals and the Flyers are 27th.

In a far larger sample size, the previous three years, it's not even close.

Ghost
150 points
218 games
0.69 P/GP

Trouba
78 points
196 games
0.40 P/GP

So yes, I'll go ahead and stick with "far worse offensively". A factually correct comparative statement. I didn't say he's horrible offensively, just that Ghost is much better. In regards to PP points, if he was nearly as good as Ghost is on the PP, nobody would be ahead of him on the Jets depth chart. Ghost has a legit claim to be the best PP defensemen in the league.

And I wont even comment on how completely useless +/- is because that should be obvious.



Now this part is odd to me.

I have no problem with anyone on here not liking me, in fact I'd assume most don't, but this just seems strange because I very very very rarely comment on the value of other teams players, so I have no idea where this complaint is coming from. I specifically don't do that or ever do stuff like make up hypothetical trades because I've admitted many times that my viewings of many players/prospects isn't enough to have a valuable opinion of them. For many, I may know who they are and what they're good and bad at, but I can't break them down like I could a Flyers player, which by my own standards isn't enough.... so I don't.

Before this simple comment on Trouba, hardly even an evaluation, when was the last time I even discussed a player from another team, outside of a passing comment? I often comment on types of players, and I stand by those comments 100%, but not on specific guys.

And yeah, I've gathered that you'd do that deal immediately. I obviously disagree.

Yup we disagree that's fine . Truce

 

[Striiker]

Yup we disagree that's fine . Truce

Sure

 

[deadhead]

It literally makes no sense. If someone said they wanted to trade Ghost for Trouba because he is bigger and more physical ok I get that argument. For a winger though, trolling, no other possible explanation.

Yep. And Trouba is a RHD.
It's not just about talent but fit.
And also the entire deal, these are rarely player for player.

Again, it's not about getting rid of players, it's about being open to dealing anyone who's not a core player.

Farabee is 18, has already improved from the summer, had a great WJC, and since returning to college has upped his game. He's listed at 6'1 170, but should fill out with above average speed, a good shot, passing, defense and hockey IQ. Plus he's tough as nails, doesn't shy away from the dirty areas with his underdeveloped body. Flyers would be crazy to let him go.

Button had Farabee at 32, Frost at 37, and Myers at 45 in his January top 50 prospect list.

 

[Striiker]

NOT A CORE PLAYER HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

 

[Beef Invictus]

You’re acting like a guy who would ignore the sun shining brightly in the mid-sky & insist it’s night because your broken clock reads 11 pm.

I also think official turnover stats are trash, but you sound like someone who has become so fixated and focused on one thing that you grossly inflate it in your head.

Going back to Carter again, it reminds me of all the anti-Carters who became fixated on him missing shots and couldn't get those "high and wide" calls out of their head...but then when you looked at the actual stats it turned out he wasn't missing any more shots than the normal high-shooting, high-scoring player.

You're intent on seeing any time Ghost does something that results in changed possession, but fail to realize that he isn't even the most egregious/damaging on D in that respect. A similar thing happened to Carle.

 

[The Madrigal]

Yep. And Trouba is a RHD.
It's not just about talent but fit.
And also the entire deal, these are rarely player for player.

Again, it's not about getting rid of players, it's about being open to dealing anyone who's not a core player.

Farabee is 18, has already improved from the summer, had a great WJC, and since returning to college has upped his game. He's listed at 6'1 170, but should fill out with above average speed, a good shot, passing, defense and hockey IQ. Plus he's tough as nails, doesn't shy away from the dirty areas with his underdeveloped body. Flyers would be crazy to let him go.

Button had Farabee at 32, Frost at 37, and Myers at 45 in his January top 50 prospect list.

I would trade Ghost for Trouba. I wouldn't trade him for a forward however.

 

[baudib1]

I think Trouba is great and I wouldn't hate it really, but I think Provorov is more or less a Trouba type who will score a few more goals. I'd rather see him paired with a more offensive defenseman.

 

[deadhead]

I would keep Provorov, Sanheim and Myers before Ghost, based on upside.

 

[Tripod]

Trouba has been rumoured to want to go closer to his girlfriend who lives in Florida. Trading anything other than futures for him would be a mistake.

 

[Striiker]

Ghosts Beer has had a clear bias against Ghost for a while now. He sees what he wants to see, not what's actually happening.

Remember this?

 

[flyers0909]

Statistical. Mumbo. Jumbo.

 

[Stizzle]

Provorov can't run the PP. Sanheim probably can but it's doubtful he'd be as good at it as Ghost, and I'm Sanheim's biggest fan on this board.