Confirmed with Link: TOR sign G Ilya Samsonov to 1 year, 1.8M deal

[Chief Leaf]

Our mentality has been programmed by management over the last few years "TO outscore Our Problems"

There is nothing different this year BUT,..we should all know sometimes goalies can get into the groove and outplay what they seem like on paper.

They can rename the NHL and call it "Goalie" but even the best goalies sometimes also seem to falter.

Even though Tampa beat us last year, we have to admit it looked like Vas had a chink in his armour.,...And we all know what comes next,.........


"It Takes a Team to Win"

And sure it is important to gain confidence as the tear plays on,..but realistically,.....we are all awaiting the "Playoffs" to see how we really play out.

imo...screw just looking for a first round win and calling itour Stan,..It should be desperate measures and go all in and adjust as the sason goes along to bring our playoff chances the best chance by additions by subtractions.

I kind of look forward to this tandem and seeing how it plays out. They both know what the pressure is going to be so they should be ready to give it their all. That is all we can ask.
Go team go!

 

[Mess]

We were even saying that at the time, seemed pretty apparent.
I believe Samsonov is going to end up being one of those moves that will finally go the Leafs way though. I thought when Marner fell to them and then winning the lottery things were starting to go their way but that’s stalled. They need something positive, it’s getting tiresome being Charlie Brown.

Agreed ..

I kind of get that same feeling that despite Murray who was the key move, it might be the more quieter safety net move with Samsonov that might pay the bigger dividends.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If nothing else its added a level of intrigue to the regular season to see how this gamble in net, in what appears like high risk move based on past performance plays out.

With Andersen or Campbell we still knew we had a 100+ point team even with inconsistent goaltending at times. Then neither was able to get us over the playoff round #1 hump, unable to make that key save particularly in series elimination games.

Neither of Leafs new goalies give us any level of consistency nor confidence that this will be the answer, but lets see what happens as the story with this tandem is truly just beginning.

Yes, I know you are not optimistic about the goaltending.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Samsonov (mental) and Murray (physical) have obvious flaws that will be exposed by good teams in the playoffs. People talk about the upside of this pairing but they have clear ceilings to me. They'd be decent options for a rebuilding team in net but a contending team rolling with them is laughable, and the amount of repression going on about this fact is getting annoying to me. They're both absolute bottom of the barrel goalies in the league and no amount of "goaltending is unpredictable" will help avoid that fact.

This team could have won with Andersen. They could have won with Campbell even I think. I would have gone after Gibson. I think Husso and Georgiev have legitimate upside, despite the risks. Lots of options for a ballsy GM, but ours likes "cap flexibility" over making a decision.

Husso and Georgiev have legit upside but Samsonov who is a younger than both and a high pick doesn't?

Georgiev had an .898 sv% this year and a .905 the year before. Why do you think he is a better bet? Husso just played his first full year in the NHL. He is not a sure thing either.

Gibson has put up mediocre numbers the last 3 years. Other than health, why is he a safer bet to win a cup than Murray who has won 2 and by reports would've cost a lot to acquire. For Murray we didn't have to give up anything.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

Kuemper just won the Stanley cup with a .902 save percentage…

Obviously having a Vasilevsky or Shesterkin would be more ideal, but those goaltenders are never available and very hard to come by.

We are not the Colorado Avalanche, not even close.

I outlined in a previous post avenues I'd rather have pursued than the Murray/Samsonov combo.

 

[Suntouchable13]

We are not the Colorado Avalanche, not even close.

I outlined in a previous post avenues I'd rather have pursued than the Murray/Samsonov combo.

I am totally with you. I still can't believe Dubas is actually going with this tandem. Makes me kinda laugh. But hey, maybe it works out? Stranger things have happened.

 

[LeafEgo]

Husso and Georgiev have legit upside but Samsonov who is a younger than both and a high pick doesn't?

Georgiev had an .898 sv% this year and a .905 the year before. Why do you think he is a better bet? Husso just played his first full year in the NHL. He is not a sure thing either.

Gibson has put up mediocre numbers the last 3 years. Other than health, why is he a safer bet to win a cup than Murray who has won 2 and by reports would've cost a lot to acquire. For Murray we didn't have to give up anything.

Gibber to me is the perfect fit for the Leafs at this point in time.

My expectation with a Gibber in net, playing behind the Leafs team, would be a goalie that consistently provides 60 games a year at anywhere from 'sufficient' to 'vezina' level goaltending over the next five year window. That should be the target in the world of voodoo - dependability, consistency, not too old, reliably good enough and maybe better.

His numbers over the last few years have dropped in line with team quality, taking that into account he has been a workhorse with consistent play and a solid brand.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I want to live in the world where people can honestly imagine the current version of Matt Murray winning 4 playoff series against high-caliber offensive teams, I really do... It just requires me to forget the past 3 years, his injury issues, and him being demoted to the AHL by a team in desperate need of goaltending.

Good news - you are living in that world right now, so be happy!

BTW, here's some more good news - we also have Samsonov who might also turn out to be very good so it's not even a given that we need Murray to win.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

Good news - you are living in that world right now, so be happy!

BTW, here's some more good news - we also have Samsonov who might also turn out to be very good so it's not even a given that we need Murray to win.

I had Samsonov in fantasy last year so I'm biased. I followed him on a game-by-game basis, and appreciated Washington doing everything they could to get him going, even playing him when Vanecek was obviously outplaying him. Yet he continued to play awful. So few goalies in this league get to play 45 games on a contender while rocking a .895 save percentage. I've never seen a goalie babied like he was, and he just could never string together solid starts. I get why Washington dropped him, because what more could they do? That's a long sample size of being plain bad.

You could say it was just one bad season, but his preceding season was quite bad too! I was expecting a bounce-back last season!

Are people expecting him to suddenly become a different goaltender when he puts on a Leafs jersey? Seems like a recipe for disaster. I prefer Georgiev because he wasn't babied like Samsonov was. He had an obstacle in his way in NY with Shesterkin that Samsonov never had. Now that that obstacle is removed I expect a great season out of him; Colorado pulled off another coup with their goaltending, while we pulled off another blunder in a contending window.

I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong, but simply articulating my reasoned perspective, and begging for rational arguments to be presented as to why these two goalies could actually win us a championship, rather than simply provide "cap flexibility".

 

[rocketman588]

There were like 3 goalies who were 25 that broke out last year, and ppl already writing him off lol.

I think samsonov as a gamble isn't actually bad in itself tbh

My biggest issue is we're pairing a massive gamble with a massive gamble. Which increases the risk. if we were going to do this we should have just gone all in on the two cheap tendys and used the cash to get a shutdown d man

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong, but simply articulating my reasoned perspective, and begging for rational arguments to be presented as to why these two goalies could actually win us a championship, rather than simply provide "cap flexibility".

Hmm, interesting. Your earlier post which said we can't win the goalies we have left me with a different impression. And to me that was such an extreme opinion/stance, that it precluded any rational discussion.

 

[ULF_55]

Murray and Samsonov is a no-lose situation.

Almost no one is giving them a chance.

So anything good comes of it is a win, and if not it was expected.

 

[Stephen]

I had Samsonov in fantasy last year so I'm biased. I followed him on a game-by-game basis, and appreciated Washington doing everything they could to get him going, even playing him when Vanecek was obviously outplaying him. Yet he continued to play awful. So few goalies in this league get to play 45 games on a contender while rocking a .895 save percentage. I've never seen a goalie babied like he was, and he just could never string together solid starts. I get why Washington dropped him, because what more could they do? That's a long sample size of being plain bad.

You could say it was just one bad season, but his preceding season was quite bad too! I was expecting a bounce-back last season!

Are people expecting him to suddenly become a different goaltender when he puts on a Leafs jersey? Seems like a recipe for disaster. I prefer Georgiev because he wasn't babied like Samsonov was. He had an obstacle in his way in NY with Shesterkin that Samsonov never had. Now that that obstacle is removed I expect a great season out of him; Colorado pulled off another coup with their goaltending, while we pulled off another blunder in a contending window.

I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong, but simply articulating my reasoned perspective, and begging for rational arguments to be presented as to why these two goalies could actually win us a championship, rather than simply provide "cap flexibility".

Samsonov hasn't been a very effective goalie and failed out of the Washington goalie of the future role, but from what I understand he came into the NHL resistant to coaching and technical adjustment due to being a great goalie in the KHL, fell in with the Kuznetsov crowd, and has some correctible technical issues to his game.

The ability is there, but whether it can be unlocked with adjustment and maturity is the big question. It's not so much if putting on a Leaf jersey will suddenly change things, but more like do the Leafs have the support that can unlock the potential there?

Olie Kolzig thinks Ilya Samsonov ‘has the ability to be like’ Andrei Vasilevskiy

Ilya Samsonov is the Washington Capitals' goaltender of the future and the team's de facto starter heading into next season. After winning…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Murray and Samsonov is a no-lose situation.

Almost no one is giving them a chance.

So anything good comes of it is a win, and if not it was expected.

For me, it is fine if you don't like Murray and Samsonov. It is very possible that neither work out and we are left in a tough spot again.

It is another to pretend that giving Campbell 5x5 at 30, Kuemper 5x5.25 at 32, or paying ridiculous assets for a 5x6.4 Gibson at 29 when he has been subpar for the past 3 years were no-brainer moves that did not present similar, if not greater, risk with any more guaranteed upside.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

For me, it is fine if you don't like Murray and Samsonov. It is very possible that neither work out and we are left in a tough spot again.

It is another to pretend that giving Campbell 5x5 at 30, Kuemper 5x5.25 at 32, or paying ridiculous assets for a 5x6.4 Gibson at 29 when he has been subpar for the past 3 years were no-brainer moves that did not present similar, if not greater, risk with any more guaranteed upside.

Campbell, Kuemper and Gibson are all better goalies than Murray and Samsonov. That's the upside right there, an upside we need in a championship window rather than middling bets. Yes, goalie performance is somewhat unpredictable, but that doesn't mean there aren't degrees of quality among goalies.

 

[rocketman588]

Murray and Samsonov is a no-lose situation.

Almost no one is giving them a chance.

So anything good comes of it is a win, and if not it was expected.

Considering if they're both garbage everyone in the front office and coaching staff is getting canned.

I wouldn't exactly call it a no lose situation

 

[Menzinger]

Murray and Samsonov is a no-lose situation.

Almost no one is giving them a chance.

So anything good comes of it is a win, and if not it was expected.

The funny thing is the Wild for example would go and find their goaltending solution (or what they hope to be the solution) at the tdl too.

What the Leafs have been doing between the pipes since the rebuild of 2014 hadn't worked. There's no where to go but up. and solutions can always come from unexpected places

 

[Mess]

Yes, I know you are not optimistic about the goaltending.

I am a firm believer in "what have you done for me lately" is the most relevant information to base discussions and decisions on.

If you were being hired for a new job just coming out of 4 years of University with average to below average grades, would you simply ignore those facts, and look back at high school grades because they were more promising as honour student, or in hockey terms would you put more weight on junior OHL totals at draft time over AHL/NHL totals after turning pro?

The "optimism" in Leafland seems to stem from the fact that Samsonov was once a former 1st round pick (back in 2015) now 7 years ago, and still young enough and can therefore still improve, so ignore the sub >.900 sv% and early playoff exits of the present. With Murray its look past all the injuries and struggles of the past 4 years and lets focus on the fact that he once won a Stanley Cup over 5 years ago, even though in-between then and now he also almost nearly got swept in round #1 in back to back years, playing in front of that same Cup winning Pens team.

Washington walked away from both their goalies including Samsonov, they just released as an RFA, to go All-In on Darcy Kuemper (coming off a Stanley Cup), in "a what have you done for me lately" move that appears they're serious about becoming more Cup competitive and looking for an upgrade, and easy to sell to Caps fan base as optimism, by bringing in a recent proven winner, who just outdueld Vasilevskiy.

Leafs picking up the disposed cast-off Samsonov, who has proven to have been a failed experiment multiple times in the recent years (1 win and 7 losses in his last 2 playoffs in round #1 losses), with the same objective as Caps to become more Cup competitive is much harder to sell as "optimism" but more "desperation", and looking for a silver lining to try and find the positive potential outcome. IMO

That to me seems more like the proverb "One man's trash is another man's treasure.", and certainly not based on "what have you done for me lately".

 

[Leaf Fans]

I am a firm believer in "what have you done for me lately" is the most relevant information to base discussions and decisions on.

If you were being hired for a new job just coming out of 4 years of University with average to below average grades, would you simply ignore those facts, and look back at high school grades because they were more promising as honour student, or in hockey terms would you put more weight on junior OHL totals over AHL totals after turning pro?

The "optimism" in Leafland seems to stem from the fact that Samsonov was once a former 1st round pick (back in 2015) now 7 years ago, and still young enough and can therefore still improve, so ignore the sub >.900 sv% and early playoff exits of the present. With Murray its look past all the injuries and struggles of the past 4 years and lets focus on the fact that he once won a Stanley Cup over 5 years ago, even though in-between then and now he also almost nearly got swept in round #1 in back to back years, playing in front of that same Cup winning Pens team.

Washington walked away from both their goalies including Samsonov, they just released as an RFA, to go All-In on Darcy Kuemper (coming off a Stanley Cup), in "a what have you done for me lately" move that appears they're serious about becoming more Cup competitive and looking for an upgrade, and easy to sell as Caps fan base as optimism.

Leafs picking up the disposed cast-off Samsonov, who has proven to have been a failed experiment multiple times in the recent years (1 win and 7 losses in his last 2 playoffs in round #1 losses), with the same objective as Caps to become more Cup competitive is much harder to sell as "optimism" but more "desperation", and looking for a silver lining to find try and find the positive potential outcome. IMO

That to me seems more like the proverb "One man's trash is another man's treasure.", and certainly not based on "what have you done for me lately".

Yeah, some people believe in what have you done lately while others are what are you going to do for me in the present. Like Washington going all in on Kuemper he was a goalie on a Cup winning team, so they signed him. While the Leafs also got a Cup winning goalie, but I ask what are you going to do for the team this year?

 

[Mess]

Murray and Samsonov is a no-lose situation.

Almost no one is giving them a chance.

So anything good comes of it is a win, and if not it was expected.

Great for the goalies, but what about Leaf fans?

If it fails, which all the recent evidence would lead one one logically to conclude as "was expected" and setting expectations accordingly, then what?

If what is expected is the actual and even more likely outcome, then Leafs Nation fans are not in a no-lose situation, with more expected losing ahead,

 

[Leaf Fans]

Great for the goalies, but what about Leaf fans?

If it fails, which all the recent evidence would lead one one logically to conclude as "was expected" and setting expectations accordingly, then what?

If what is expected is the actual and even more likely outcome, then Leafs Nation fans are not in a no-lose situation, with more expected losing ahead,

I am fine with it thank you for your concern.

 

[ULF_55]

Considering if they're both garbage everyone in the front office and coaching staff is getting canned.

I wouldn't exactly call it a no lose situation

I would.

If they fail, new management.
If they don't fail they win.

 

[ULF_55]

Great for the goalies, but what about Leaf fans?

If it fails, which all the recent evidence would lead one one logically to conclude as "was expected" and setting expectations accordingly, then what?

If what is expected is the actual and even more likely outcome, then Leafs Nation fans are not in a no-lose situation, with more expected losing ahead,

Leafs fans?

They can chose another team if they're bothered by the Leafs.

31 teams next year are going to be losers.

They're just entertainment, and just like other entertainment vehicles sometimes good sometime bad.

If they win it doesn't improve my life any.

 

[ULF_55]

The funny thing is the Wild for example would go and find their goaltending solution (or what they hope to be the solution) at the tdl too.

What the Leafs have been doing between the pipes since the rebuild of 2014 hadn't worked. There's no where to go but up. and solutions can always come from unexpected places

Yeah, this is a big risk.

Being safe doesn't guarantee anything.
In 55 years they've tried everything.
Trading Bernie wasn't brilliant.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Campbell, Kuemper and Gibson are all better goalies than Murray and Samsonov. That's the upside right there, an upside we need in a championship window rather than middling bets. Yes, goalie performance is somewhat unpredictable, but that doesn't mean there aren't degrees of quality among goalies.

I think it comes down to you are really sold on these other options being practical guarantees to do well behind a stronger team like ours while simulatenously believing the two guys we did bring in will not benefit from that phenomenon at all... which creates this exaggerated gap in quality.

And the thing is with Murray vs. Campbell especially is that Campbell was already benefitting from one of the strongest defenses in the league while Murray was not. Campbell, outside of one month, was absolute trash behind said top defense. Historically awful. And it is not like he has much of a track record of success to suggest he is going to even be starting quality, nevermind high end starting quality.

Even Kuemper at times, especially during the playoffs, looked very pedestrian. His playoff performance was the worst out of any Cup winner for a while... and Colorado made it easy for him.

Murray, meanwhile, will have the benefit of a better defense in front of him this year than he has had arguably at any point in his career (PIT was never known to be a defensive powerhouse in his time there). So if anyone benefits from moving to a stronger team, it is a guy who was outperforming a weak defense.