Confirmed with Link: TOR sign G Ilya Samsonov to 1 year, 1.8M deal

[Stephen]

No, what I said is what I said. There are risks associated with the goaltending we have, but the same is true for the overwhelming majority of the league, and every team that acquired a goaltender this year.

The criticism for the Murray-Samsonov duo isn't the existence of risk, but that the organization made two high risk bets (with upside) relative to the options out there.

 

[A1LeafNation]

The criticism for the Murray-Samsonov duo isn't the existence of risk, but that the organization made two high risk bets (with upside) relative to the options out there.

The other options were committing 5 years to 30+ goalies...which makes sense not to go down that road.

 

[Mess]

What you’re saying is, it’s Year five and they’re rolling dice. Most would agree.

Yup that is what Leaf fans are saying, as its now year 5 under this GM and he & this fan base wants playoff success, and while we all hope this works out this is a huge dice roll.

When you take goalies off the scrap heap to end a 18 year playoff drought it makes people nervous.

What are the realistic odds considering the seasons Samsonov and Murray are coming off of ?

Would 75 % Failure and 25 % Success be reasonable expectations heading in?

The fact Samsonov and Murray have a combined record of 2 wins and 14 losses in their last 2 playoff series combined, does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling, our 1st round drought is ending.

While all of Leaf Nation realizes this season ONLY the playoff results matter, it has added a new level of intrigue to see if these new goalies bounce back on a high risk move.

 

[Tarmore]

The other options were committing 5 years to 30+ goalies...which makes sense not to go down that road.

I think there are risks there too, 30+ year old goalies have different risks, especially with longer contracts.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The criticism for the Murray-Samsonov duo isn't the existence of risk, but that the organization made two high risk bets (with upside) relative to the options out there.

I think you're either underestimating the risk that other teams have in their goaltending, or overestimating the risk associated with Murray-Samsonov. We may carry slightly more risk in the short term, but that's the tradeoff for having more potential reward than most options, and much less risk in the long term.

 

[Stephen]

The other options were committing 5 years to 30+ goalies...which makes sense not to go down that road.

Someone like Campbell or Kuemper would just be a different sort of risk, creating cap pinch points at different times but more of a known quantity. We know what Campbell's ups and downs look like and Kuemper is an injury prone goalie who won a cup in Colorado.

The Leafs took more cap flexibility in their solution at the cost of more on ice uncertainty...

 

[Stephen]

I think you're either underestimating the risk that other teams have in their goaltending, or overestimating the risk associated with Murray-Samsonov. We may carry slightly more risk in the short term, but that's the tradeoff for having more potential reward than most options, and much less risk in the long term.

Not really, I've outlined the upsides of Murray and Samsonov a number of times and we're all aware of their floors as goalies. That's why we got them for nothing and less than nothing...

The risk with Kuemper and Campbell is their quality of play will fall off and create cap problems when we need the space in a couple of years. In Campbell's case, is he reliable over long stretches and in big pressure moments. In Kuemper's, what are his health risks, being somewhat injury prone and having a major eye issue.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

This team is not winning a Stanley Cup with Murray/Samsonov. End of story. Hopefully the next management team makes an actual attempt to address our goaltending issues so that we can win a championship, not gain "cap flexibility".

 

[Leaffan197703]

There are really only about 2 to 3 teams that have really elite goaltenders Tampa Bay ny rangers and maybe the islanders you can't even put montreal on that list because who knows if Carey price will ever be healthy again. Most of the teams are in the same boat as toronto with ok to good goaltenders with question marks all we can do is watch the games and reserve judgment at the end

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not really, I've outlined the upsides of Murray and Samsonov a number of times and we're all aware of their floors as goalies. That's why we got them for nothing and less than nothing...

The risk with Kuemper and Campbell is their quality of play will fall off and create cap problems when we need the space in a couple of years. In Campbell's case, is he reliable over long stretches and in big pressure moments. In Kuemper's, what are his health risks, being somewhat injury prone and having a major eye issue.

The risk with Kuemper/Campbell isn't just "in a couple years". They carry risk in the present as well, and a lot of people seem to be expecting their ceiling and forgetting their own floors.

The Leafs chose slightly increased risk in the present for increased potential reward and no long-term risk. That's not an unreasonable decision, especially since we've shown an ability to do quite well with horrific goaltending, and can somewhat mitigate that short-term risk until we can pivot - something we wouldn't really have the flexibility to do with Kuemper/Campbell if they didn't work out.

 

[Leaf Fans]

This team is not winning a Stanley Cup with Murray/Samsonov. End of story. Hopefully the next management team makes an actual attempt to address our goaltending issues so that we can win a championship, not gain "cap flexibility".

There is no end to the story yet. Their story is just beginning.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This team is not winning a Stanley Cup with Murray/Samsonov. End of story. Hopefully the next management team makes an actual attempt to address our goaltending issues so that we can win a championship, not gain "cap flexibility".

Posts like this are utter nonsense. End of story.

 

[A1LeafNation]

This team is not winning a Stanley Cup with Murray/Samsonov. End of story. Hopefully the next management team makes an actual attempt to address our goaltending issues so that we can win a championship, not gain "cap flexibility".

How come? Who would they win it with?

 

[Mess]

There is no end to the story yet. Their story is just beginning.

If nothing else its added a level of intrigue to the regular season to see how this gamble in net, in what appears like high risk move based on past performance plays out.

With Andersen or Campbell we still knew we had a 100+ point team even with inconsistent goaltending at times. Then neither was able to get us over the playoff round #1 hump, unable to make that key save particularly in series elimination games.

Neither of Leafs new goalies give us any level of consistency nor confidence that this will be the answer, but lets see what happens as the story with this tandem is truly just beginning.

 

[ER89]

The criticism for the Murray-Samsonov duo isn't the existence of risk, but that the organization made two high risk bets (with upside) relative to the options out there.

also didn't show a clear understanding of managing risk throughout the season. No back up plans and this is what we are left with. Not the ideal time on taking any risk on goaltending.

Should be somewhat shored up on whats not to be year 7 with matty et al.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

How come? Who would they win it with?

Samsonov (mental) and Murray (physical) have obvious flaws that will be exposed by good teams in the playoffs. People talk about the upside of this pairing but they have clear ceilings to me. They'd be decent options for a rebuilding team in net but a contending team rolling with them is laughable, and the amount of repression going on about this fact is getting annoying to me. They're both absolute bottom of the barrel goalies in the league and no amount of "goaltending is unpredictable" will help avoid that fact.

This team could have won with Andersen. They could have won with Campbell even I think. I would have gone after Gibson. I think Husso and Georgiev have legitimate upside, despite the risks. Lots of options for a ballsy GM, but ours likes "cap flexibility" over making a decision.

 

[Mess]

also didn't show a clear understanding of managing risk throughout the season. No back up plans and this is what we are left with. Not the ideal time on taking any risk on goaltending.

Should be somewhat shored up on whats not to be year 7 with matty et al.

When you judge all these moves on timing alone, it appears that as the musical chairs of goalies was filling up quickly, and teams getting their new goalies quickly, while our Leafs were left with a "what's left" now situation.

With Campbell already moving on and Mrazak already dumped with draft capital the Leafs had 2 empty seats to fill with the better option already unavailable, as some teams moved quickly and Leafs sorting through the leftovers, of goalies coming off poor & injury filled season that were sitting there as the music was ending and option limited.

Washington once used a 1st round pick on Samsonov and he is only 25 years old, but they were willing to not give him a qualifying offer and cutting him loose for free, as opposed to even trying to trade him and get some return value, You have to think they try to trade him with no takers and they clearly didn't think there was any bounce back potential here due to his age and losing in the 1st round in back to back years with Samsonov only winning a single playoff game over the course of 2 playoff seasons.

So Leafs are banking on a player likely with no trade value and released as a RFA as a potential answer to Leafs playoff struggles.

You hit the most important point here.. Matthews contract is running out and him staying and signing long-term will likely be impacted by Leafs Cup competitiveness and how do these high risk moves in net at such an important position play out, as Leafs burn away his contract years with all this instability at such a key position.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Samsonov (mental) and Murray (physical) have obvious flaws that will be exposed by good teams in the playoffs. People talk about the upside of this pairing but they have clear ceilings to me. They'd be decent options for a rebuilding team in net but a contending team rolling with them is laughable, and the amount of repression going on about this fact is getting annoying to me. They're both absolute bottom of the barrel goalies in the league and no amount of "goaltending is unpredictable" will help avoid that fact.

This team could have won with Andersen. They could have won with Campbell even I think. I would have gone after Gibson. I think Husso and Georgiev have legitimate upside, despite the risks. Lots of options for a ballsy GM, but ours likes "cap flexibility" over making a decision.

There were like 3 goalies who were 25 that broke out last year, and ppl already writing him off lol.

 

[Its not your fault]

When you judge all these moves on timing alone, it appears that as the musical chairs of goalies was filling up quickly, and teams getting their new goalies quickly, while our Leafs were left with a "what's left" now situation.

With Campbell already moving on and Mrazak already dumped with draft capital the Leafs had 2 empty seats to fill with the better option already unavailable, as some teams moved quickly and Leafs sorting through the leftovers, of goalies coming off poor & injury filled season that were sitting there as the music was ending and option limited.

Washington once used a 1st round pick on Samsonov and he is only 25 years old, but they were willing to not give him a qualifying offer and cutting him loose for free, as opposed to even trying to trade him and get some return value, You have to think they try to trade him with no takers and they clearly didn't think there was any bounce back potential here due to his age and losing in the 1st round in back to back years with Samsonov only winning a single playoff game over the course of 2 playoff seasons.

So Leafs are banking on a player likely with no trade value and released as a RFA as a potential answer to Leafs playoff struggles.

You hit the most important point here.. Matthews contract is running out and him staying and signing long-term will likely be impacted by Leafs Cup competitiveness and how do these high risk moves in net at such an important position play out, as Leafs burn away his contract years with all this instability at such a key position.

Without trading prime assets this might be true However its just a working theory.

 

[Dekes For Days]

When you judge all these moves on timing alone, it appears that as the musical chairs of goalies was filling up quickly, and teams getting their new goalies quickly, while our Leafs were left with a "what's left" now situation.

It doesn't appear like a "what's left" situation at all. Murray was acquired two days before free agency, and Samsonov was signed like 1 minute into free agency.

 

[ACC1224]

When you judge all these moves on timing alone, it appears that as the musical chairs of goalies was filling up quickly, and teams getting their new goalies quickly, while our Leafs were left with a "what's left" now situation.

With Campbell already moving on and Mrazak already dumped with draft capital the Leafs had 2 empty seats to fill with the better option already unavailable, as some teams moved quickly and Leafs sorting through the leftovers, of goalies coming off poor & injury filled season that were sitting there as the music was ending and option limited.

Washington once used a 1st round pick on Samsonov and he is only 25 years old, but they were willing to not give him a qualifying offer and cutting him loose for free, as opposed to even trying to trade him and get some return value, You have to think they try to trade him with no takers and they clearly didn't think there was any bounce back potential here due to his age and losing in the 1st round in back to back years with Samsonov only winning a single playoff game over the course of 2 playoff seasons.

So Leafs are banking on a player likely with no trade value and released as a RFA as a potential answer to Leafs playoff struggles.

You hit the most important point here.. Matthews contract is running out and him staying and signing long-term will likely be impacted by Leafs Cup competitiveness and how do these high risk moves in net at such an important position play out, as Leafs burn away his contract years with all this instability at such a key position.

We were even saying that at the time, seemed pretty apparent.
I believe Samsonov is going to end up being one of those moves that will finally go the Leafs way though. I thought when Marner fell to them and then winning the lottery things were starting to go their way but that’s stalled. They need something positive, it’s getting tiresome being Charlie Brown.

 

[TMLAM34]

We aren’t winning a Stanley cup with Murray and Samsonov…. Murray with his two Stanley cup championship rings is asking what?! Lol

 

[Stephen]

The other options were committing 5 years to 30+ goalies...which makes sense not to go down that road.

30 doesn't necessarily mean an automatic decline for an athlete. It often can, but other factors like career wear and tear, conditioning and other factors come into play. I'd take a 32 year old Jacob Markstrom over a 28 year old Matt Murray for multiple seasons for example.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

We aren’t winning a Stanley cup with Murray and Samsonov…. Murray with his two Stanley cup championship rings is asking what?! Lol

I want to live in the world where people can honestly imagine the current version of Matt Murray winning 4 playoff series against high-caliber offensive teams, I really do... It just requires me to forget the past 3 years, his injury issues, and him being demoted to the AHL by a team in desperate need of goaltending.

I'm still waiting to be convinced by someone's vision of Matt Murray winning 4 playoff series against high-caliber offensive teams who not only will collectively exhale at facing Matt Murray instead of Andrei Vasilevsky or Igor Shesterkin, but also will know they can exploit his well-known weaknesses with side-to-side movement and traffic in his crease if he does get hot.

I want Matt Murray to succeed, and think he could get hot in the regular season, but my imagination falters when it comes to the long, hard drive of the playoffs, and the importance of not only solid goaltending, but elite goaltending therein. I was one of the first posters to state back in the spring that Murray was going to be our starter next season, and start to rationalize that decision.

If you could combine Murray's mental game and Samsonov's physical ability, then you would have an amazing goalie. Unfortunately, we can't.

 

[TMLAM34]

I want to live in the world where people can honestly imagine the current version of Matt Murray winning 4 playoff series against high-caliber offensive teams, I really do... It just requires me to forget the past 3 years, his injury issues, and him being demoted to the AHL by a team in desperate need of goaltending.

I'm still waiting to be convinced by someone's vision of Matt Murray winning 4 playoff series against high-caliber offensive teams who not only will collectively exhale at facing Matt Murray instead of Andrei Vasilevsky or Igor Shesterkin, but also will know they can exploit his well-known weaknesses with side-to-side movement and traffic in his crease if he does get hot.

I want Matt Murray to succeed, and think he could get hot in the regular season, but my imagination falters when it comes to the long, hard drive of the playoffs, and the importance of not only solid goaltending, but elite goaltending therein. I was one of the first posters to state back in the spring that Murray was going to be our starter next season, and start to rationalize that decision.

If you could combine Murray's mental game and Samsonov's physical ability, then you would have an amazing goalie. Unfortunately, we can't.

Kuemper just won the Stanley cup with a .902 save percentage…

Obviously having a Vasilevsky or Shesterkin would be more ideal, but those goaltenders are never available and very hard to come by.