Value of: Top Dollar for Lafreniere

[n8]

I think the best option for getting value for Laf, if the Rangers want to move on, is to trade for another young player who hasn't hit their potential yet (e.g.- someone like Kirby Dach, Newhook, Turcotte etc.).

If the trade was just for picks, I think it would always end up looking bad on the management.

Trading for a vet to fill a specific role is obviously another option, but I feel like the Rangers would need a value contract coming back, which certainly makes it a tougher trade to make.

Newhook (1+2) and Dach (1+3) trades feel relevant to this conversation as they were both young players with career highs at 33 and 26 points respectively. Laf career high at 39. Ranger fans will continue to harp that this is all with low quality PP time. Given a more prominent role on the PP which he will never get here in NY, he can totally improve on those numbers.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

This has something around Podkolzin written all over it

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

Newhook (1+2) and Dach (1+3) trades feel relevant to this conversation as they were both young players with career highs at 33 and 26 points respectively. Laf career high at 39. Ranger fans will continue to harp that this is all with low quality PP time. Given a more prominent role on the PP which he will never get here in NY, he can totally improve on those numbers.

Any player who gets pp time will improve their numbers

 

[hawksrule]

Newhook (1+2) and Dach (1+3) trades feel relevant to this conversation as they were both young players with career highs at 33 and 26 points respectively. Laf career high at 39. Ranger fans will continue to harp that this is all with low quality PP time. Given a more prominent role on the PP which he will never get here in NY, he can totally improve on those numbers.

There’s more to the game than points. Tacking on a few pp points doesn’t change him as a player.

 

[TGWL]

This has something around Podkolzin written all over it

Is this written in some new form of invisible ink?

 

[Qwijibo]

This has something around Podkolzin written all over it

How so? At least Lafreniere is an established NHL'er.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How so? At least Lafreniere is an established NHL'er.

He might not be for long if last night's scratch is any indication lol

 

[John Mandalorian]

How so? At least Lafreniere is an established NHL'er.

It’s fair to speculate if that would be the case if you switched their draft positions.

 

[Qwijibo]

It’s fair to speculate if that would be the case if you switched their draft positions.

If you want. But one is a regular on a better team and the other can't stick in the NHL on a weaker team.

 

[HabsAddict]

The bolded is true, but to add onto it

Lafreniere produces at a 0.42 pts/game pace.
Dach produced at a 0.39 pts/game pace.
Newhook produced at a 0.41pts/game pace.

Dach I'd agree was the "worst" in terms of production. He had the opportunity to shine, but perhaps rushed (he was playing 18 mins per game in Chicago after his first season). However, he did get a pretty bad injury that kept him out most of his 2nd season. He's a big guy, and the hope was to use him at center - big centers cost a lot, even young projects like Dach. Lafreniere doesn't have the excuse of an injury or of playing on a terrible team, he not small by any means, but also not a center.

Newhook's context is perhaps closer to Lafreniere's. He played on a competitive team, and his TOI reflects that. Both Laf and Newhook played similar time on the PP last year. Both are putting underwhelming numbers, with Laf doing seemingly better every year.

Lafreniere is more physically involved than the other two (despite Dach being "bigger"), and Dach's big breakout really came after being traded. Lafreniere is showing improvement in production every year.

So yeah, these 2 players are pretty good comparables, and I think Lafreniere showing progress (albeit small) is a + over those 2 at the time of their trades. Dach's C potential and size did a bit of heavy lifting for his value too, I assume.

That said, is Laf looking that bad Rangers fans? I feel like patience could still pay with him if he becomes even a 60-70 pts player in a few years. That piece coming back would likely take another 4-5 years of development + might be a "real" bust and not even make it.

I guess you haven't seen the current version of Dach. Aside from Pez, he's probably the most punishing and nasty of our forwards. No, he's not a fighter or a hitting machine, but he's using his 220 pounds with a bit of an attitude.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

The bolded is true, but to add onto it

Lafreniere produces at a 0.42 pts/game pace.
Dach produced at a 0.39 pts/game pace.
Newhook produced at a 0.41pts/game pace.

Dach I'd agree was the "worst" in terms of production. He had the opportunity to shine, but perhaps rushed (he was playing 18 mins per game in Chicago after his first season). However, he did get a pretty bad injury that kept him out most of his 2nd season. He's a big guy, and the hope was to use him at center - big centers cost a lot, even young projects like Dach. Lafreniere doesn't have the excuse of an injury or of playing on a terrible team, he not small by any means, but also not a center.

Newhook's context is perhaps closer to Lafreniere's. He played on a competitive team, and his TOI reflects that. Both Laf and Newhook played similar time on the PP last year. Both are putting underwhelming numbers, with Laf doing seemingly better every year.

Lafreniere is more physically involved than the other two (despite Dach being "bigger"), and Dach's big breakout really came after being traded. Lafreniere is showing improvement in production every year.

So yeah, these 2 players are pretty good comparables, and I think Lafreniere showing progress (albeit small) is a + over those 2 at the time of their trades. Dach's C potential and size did a bit of heavy lifting for his value too, I assume.

That said, is Laf looking that bad Rangers fans? I feel like patience could still pay with him if he becomes even a 60-70 pts player in a few years. That piece coming back would likely take another 4-5 years of development + might be a "real" bust and not even make it.

The problem I have with Laf is that I see a kid who is just pleased as punch to be playing in the NHL and that's it. No fire, no chip on his shoulder, no "I'll show them". He's just happy that he got invited to the party and that's good enough for him.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Beauvillier($1.25M retained) and Podkolzin for Lafrenierre.

 

[abo9]

I guess you haven't seen the current version of Dach. Aside from Pez, he's probably the most punishing and nasty of our forwards. No, he's not a fighter or a hitting machine, but he's using his 220 pounds with a bit of an attitude.

I was trying to compare before their respective trades. Obviously Dach showed tremendous improvements last season that's something that would put him ahead of Lafreniere today imo. But it's only fair and logical to use only the data we had at the time of the trade to establish value.

The problem I have with Laf is that I see a kid who is just pleased as punch to be playing in the NHL and that's it. No fire, no chip on his shoulder, no "I'll show them". He's just happy that he got invited to the party and that's good enough for him.

Hopefully it's just a perceived attitude and not his "real" attitude... I like to see more talent in the NHL

Fwiw, Price was also seen as "nonchalant" in his beginnings, but it was more the way he conducted himself on the ice. The guy was a total winner.

 

[rt]

Arizona has NYR’s ‘25 2nd & ‘26 2nd. I’ll give ya both of em back, plus AZ’s ‘24 3rd.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Bring him home (Vancouver)

Hoglander for Lafreniere straight up.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

I’d role the dice and move Knies for Laffy@ 50% retained. There’s a cozy spot for him beside Tavares and Nylander

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I’d role the dice and move Knies for Laffy@ 50% retained. There’s a cozy spot for him beside Tavares and Nylander

Done and done. No backsies.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I’d role the dice and move Knies for Laffy@ 50% retained. There’s a cozy spot for him beside Tavares and Nylander

Knies is way better than Lafreniere lol.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Arizona has NYR’s ‘25 2nd & ‘26 2nd. I’ll give ya both of em back, plus AZ’s ‘24 3rd.

Deal.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Knies is way better than Lafreniere lol.

Until Laffy turns into Jason Robertson 2.0 and puts up 100 points beside Tavares and a contract year Nylander

Die hard leaf’s fan btw

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Until Laffy turns into Jason Robertson 2.0 and puts up 100 points beside Tavares and a contract year Nylander

Die hard leaf’s fan btw

So you've never watched Lafreniere play?

 

[tinyzombies]

Habs are loaded with young D, so my guess is that and the Calgary 1st could be fair if that’s something NYR even need. If they are interested, and they probably are since his underlying numbers showed some promise. he’d be coming home where he saw what happened to Drouin who was unfairly treated (3 surgeries in 4 years, two wrist and an ankle). Float up here and you’ll be hearing it toot sweet, the fans have the rebuild smile on but underneath is a boiling vat of scorn ready to unloose. Everytime I see him play, I immediately look at his toothpick legs … looks like he skipped leg year, not leg day. Also wasn’t his strength in junior his playmaking? At the NHL level though he can’t create space or win battles so the skill stays on the shelf. Can he uptick his skating and strength? Obviously not if he’s skipping leg year! Pass.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Rough game for Lafreniere, 18.7% xGF% (worst on the Rangers) despite only starting one shift in the defensive zone.

He's at 37% xGF% through 4 preseason games, and only has 3 shots at 5v5. And this is with Artemi Panarin as his most common linemate. In their 20 mins together, they've got a 15.9% xGF% and have been outshot 10-3 (22-11 shot attempts).

These are obviously small sample sizes, but the eye test doesn't really change the narrative. Maybe there is a reason he wasn't getting played in the top 6. At this point I think Cuylle has jumped Lafreniere in the depth chart.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Based on his body language, it seems like he’s putting a lot of pressure on himself.

It’s reminiscent of Habs fans complaints about Lehkonen as he was traded to Colorado. When your opportunities to score feel more finite, maybe you try too hard?

Maybe a team like Toronto where he knows each scoring chance isn’t his last might be better for him?

 

[jackjohnson]

Curious to see if Lafreniere’s early struggles can be blamed on the Rangers’ impotent 5v5 play, log jam at LW and coaching carousel and whether other franchises think he still has untapped value.

Wanting to see what’s the top value Laf could fetch. Or what you’d be willing to move if Laf came with a pick/another young player, etc. What’s the most he could bring back heading into D+4 right now.

Hoglander for Laf the bust