Value of: Top Dollar for Lafreniere

[The Management]

Okay, so today, based on the categories given in that video:

Skating: 2/5
Hockey Sense: 3/5
Competitiveness: 4.5/5
Scoring Touch: 3.5/5
Shot: 3.5/5

Pretty wild how wrong scouts were about this kid. His skating is f***ing atrocious and his ability to process the game maybe would be okay if he was fast, but since he’s slow as lymphoma the fact that he can’t even decide what he’s gonna do with the puck before he gets it (like other “slow” guys like Pavelski or Robertson do) just makes him look like he’s actively wearing ankle and wrist weights. If he did EVERYTHING 80% faster, both physically and mentally, he’d have a chance at being an actual top line talent some day. He doesn’t, and he doesn’t.

It is sort of wild to go back and look at old scouting reports on some of these guys who haven't worked out. I remember being swept up in the hype around Yakupov, and it's hard not to when you read some of the expectations being thrown around. In Pronman's Athletic article, he stated:

"Lafreniere is one of the most purely skilled players I’ve ever seen as a first-year draft-eligible prospect. I could do a whole column just illustrating his puck skills, as his highlight reel is extremely long. I had to be selective even in a rather long section about which incredible videos to use to show his skill. He is always a moment away from bringing fans to their feet with how makes plays through defenders with his tremendous hands and offensive creativity."​

Pronman’s scouting report: What the Rangers are getting in Alexis Lafreniere

Breaking down the potential No. 1 pick's games, with thoughts from the player himself and his coach.

theathletic.com

I haven't seen a tenth of him compared to Rangers' fans, but with hands like those, it's surprising he hasn't been able to make more of an impression in the NHL.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It is sort of wild to go back and look at old scouting reports on some of these guys who haven't worked out. I remember being swept up in the hype around Yakupov, and it's hard not to when you read some of the expectations being thrown around. In Pronman's Athletic article, he stated:

"Lafreniere is one of the most purely skilled players I’ve ever seen as a first-year draft-eligible prospect. I could do a whole column just illustrating his puck skills, as his highlight reel is extremely long. I had to be selective even in a rather long section about which incredible videos to use to show his skill. He is always a moment away from bringing fans to their feet with how makes plays through defenders with his tremendous hands and offensive creativity."​

Pronman’s scouting report: What the Rangers are getting in Alexis Lafreniere

Breaking down the potential No. 1 pick's games, with thoughts from the player himself and his coach.

theathletic.com

I haven't seen a tenth of him compared to Rangers' fans, but with hands like those, it's surprising he hasn't been able to make more of an impression in the NHL.

Hard to use your hands when your brain isn't processing the play fast enough.

 

[The Management]

Hard to use your hands when your brain isn't processing the play fast enough.

Yeah, fair enough. You'll get no arguments from me, as I haven't seen him play enough to offer more than a halfhearted opinion.

 

[bernmeister]

Again, what are you smoking?

That post just makes you sound even worse

your comments = unsubstantiated opinion
do the work, analyze what I said

 

[bernmeister]

Actually it is whackadoo because regardless of Laf’s actual value, it still doesn’t take into account that a struggling former first overall left winger with a 2.3M cap hit is really, really low on Edmonton’s priority list, it’s a non existent need. That fact makes, what you believe would be a reasonable ask even more of a joke.

It is NOT regardless.
Actual is pertinent for both sides!
less than stellar results of LaF to date vs less than stellar results of pieces cited.
those pieces do not have outside chance of spectacular upside of LaF, whatev his faults, knows how to shoot, combo'ed w/McD/drai.


take off the homer glasses

 

[TS Quint]

your op and you are entitled to be wrong.
Look at it thiis way....
Bro was drafted what, 8, 9OA?
Holloway was like `16Oa?
[from memory and I'm too busy to check]
add McLeod was not a 1st rounder, right?
and EDM 2024 1ST projects to be late, yes?

so, if you had a 1OA on the table for like 8 + 16 + very late 1st +,
would you take it?

Sure Laf is disappointing as a 1OA
but he is still a good investment $$ wise due to marketing, intangibles, and shows shooting ability. The hope is, like w/Chytil + Kakko, he would find chemistry w/McD/Drai/+ ______

I am still bullish on Broberg.
But has he excelled and burst on the scene day 1 like Mo Seider? NO.
Has Holloway seized/cemented a W slot? NO

So if you are really honest about it, the upside of LaF could work for Oil, and NY could use speed/depth.

Your emotional attachment to draft position over talent is the problem. That was the Rangers mistake and no one else has to pay for that.

This whole “marketing value” is absolutely the dumbest reaching for pretend value I have ever seen in HF. Being a Canadian hockey player in a country full of better Canadian hockey players has zero value, possibly negative value if some GM actually gives the Rangers near the value you hope for.

 

[DueDiligence]

those pieces do not have outside chance of spectacular upside of LaF

The chance of Laf having a "spectacular upside" is incredibly remote. In reality he is what he is right now.

 

[TS Quint]

To the extent we are viewing the single side of the coin, you are right.
All I am asking you to admit is, coins DO have 2 sides to them.
Rs would be stupid to be confined to limitations of OP inquiry, which he had a right to ask.
This is not a scenario where they gotta lose the guy NOW.
They should be open to moving him at a good return, whether or not that is top dollar.
IMO 4-5 useful pieces w/upside is that, better than trying for a higher end prospect.
This is a case where 1.20 in assorted change is worth a buck and some pennies for both sides.


I gave a breakdown demonstrating a rationale for this deal based on objective criteria of where drafted. All draftees not crushing it. Value favors Rangers, but not lopsided given how currency exchanged is a better fit for both teams.


When we drafted Krav, I said I would go along with it b'c I did not know other than he had track record favorable vs. Panarin, he had size etc, and on paper looked good. That said, my choice was Dobson. I was right.
When we got 1OA, and they said to the effect "this kid is the best non-generational 1OA since MacKinnon", I went along with it. I didn't have any data to suggest otherwise, and would have wanted the moon for a 1OA, but not dealing otherwise.
Don't let it be said bern is not honest.

I have always said you 100% believe what you say. But your talent evaluation is crazy. It’s so heavily based on your attachment to age and draft position over actual value. Kravstov was a great example. But that is common for homers of all teams.

What makes you unique is your ideas of how you want to build the Rangers. It’s so bad for the team. Even in this thread you want the Rangers best forward on the 3rd line. None of the best players on the 1st line. The weight you put into your hope for prospects over actual talent is baffling. You are the King of the eternal rebuild. Going into your post history is wild. It’s years of ideas on how to destroy your favorite franchise.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

2nd + B prospect seems fair

dont see him having an NHL career has a top 6 forward but a good 3rd liner

 

[WarriorofTime]

It is NOT regardless.
Actual is pertinent for both sides!
less than stellar results of LaF to date vs less than stellar results of pieces cited.
those pieces do not have outside chance of spectacular upside of LaF, whatev his faults, knows how to shoot, combo'ed w/McD/drai.


take off the homer glasses

Again, outside of teams that could actually win the Cup this year or next year that could use a huge boon of a breakout star on a $2,325,000 cap hit, all any other team getting him is hoping for such breakout and then being the one that can give him a giant extension that he will ask for if he breaks out. If he doesn't break out, he's wasted assets to spend acquiring.

So a contending team - probably no, it's just the same situation as the Rangers and they don't have a particular reason to believe in him. Maybe they have a spot and would want him there but they probably aren't too inclined to give up a bunch for him, and they'd be more likely to view him as a more short/medium term until he hits UFA.

His Bridge deal just kills whatever remaining speculative value that he has. His value is probably highest for the Rangers than any other team right now, even without considering the path dependency aspect of it. And they themselves will be in a tough cap spot if he were to break out in the next two years, but at least they have a chance of getting some good value if he does step up.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

When I go to sell something, I always remember what I paid for it, I always want to recover my cost. Sometimes in order to sell it, I need to recognize what it is worth now.

I am afraid that is where Laf is now. Yes he was a 1OA and maybe he has more potential but he is worth less than the acquiring price.

If he was to be traded it would likely be for a player on a somewhat similar situation or for future picks. Sorry but it is what it is

There are lots of third line wingers and many will be waived soon.

 

[AirGut]

2nd + B prospect seems fair

dont see him having an NHL career has a top 6 forward but a good 3rd liner

The Rangers ended up getting a 2nd for Lias Andersson, they could get a late 1st if they wanted no matter how mad it makes this board.
NYR wouldn't be looking for a pick if Lafreniere were to be moved anyways though, this is a classic change of scenery swap involving another player of the same age.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Rangers ended up getting a 2nd for Lias Andersson, they could get a late 1st if they wanted no matter how mad it makes this board.
NYR wouldn't be looking for a pick if Lafreniere were to be moved anyways though, this is a classic change of scenery swap involving another player of the same age.

Which team is moving their first for Lafreniere right now?

 

[hawksrule]

Which team is moving their first for Lafreniere right now?

If you can draft a serviceable third liner with a late first, you’re usually happy with it. Problem is that it’s not that difficult to sign serviceable third liners in fa, so teams may not be willing to give up the pick. I could see a team gambling with pick 25-31, but no way would he get a top-20 imo.

 

[WarriorofTime]

If you can draft a serviceable third liner with a late first, you’re usually happy with it. Problem is that it’s not that difficult to sign serviceable third liners in fa, so teams may not be willing to give up the pick. I could see a team gambling with pick 25-31, but no way would he get a top-20 imo.

He’s not a serviceable third liner. He plays sheltered offensive heavy minutes and doesn’t PK. He’s a first liner in training that hasn’t shown it yet, who if he becomes a first liner will be due up soon due to a bridge deal. I dunno what other team in the 25-32 range has much use for him right now.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Look at it thiis way....
Bro was drafted what, 8, 9OA?
Holloway was like `16Oa?
[from memory and I'm too busy to check]
add McLeod was not a 1st rounder, right?
and EDM 2024 1ST projects to be late, yes?

so, if you had a 1OA on the table for like 8 + 16 + very late 1st +,
would you take it?

Look at it this way....
RNH is a 1OA....
Zibanejad was drafted what, 6, 7OA?
Kreider was like 19OA?
And Fox was not even a 1st rounder, right?
and NYR 2024 1ST projects to be late, yes?

so, if you had a 1OA on the table for like 6 + 19 + a very late 1st+, would you take it?

^^
That's how you sound right now.

Sure Laf is disappointing as a 1OA
but he is still a good investment $$ wise due to marketing, intangibles, and shows shooting ability. The hope is, like w/Chytil + Kakko, he would find chemistry w/McD/Drai/+ ______

Marketing? No fan who has paid any attention in the last 3 years is gonna pay money to watch Lafreniere float around.

Don't even get me started on his "intangibles", dude has been healthy scratched for his effort in the past and was a complete no show in the playoffs.

 

[Captain97]

I'd probably offer something between what Dach and Newhook got.

Late 1st + early 2nd/roster player

 

[crowi]

Still getting hooked up on draft position. This saga will be exactly what Kravtsov bullshit was.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Still getting hooked up on draft position. This saga will be exactly what Kravtsov bullshit was.

Laf got 39 points last year.
D.Sedin had 31 in his 3rd season.
Henrik had 39.

Kravtsov had 12 points his entire career.

I don't think he's going to be as good as either Sedin, but he's already a lot better than Kravtsov ever was.

 

[McSuper]

LaF has disappointed as a 1OA, but an honest assessment is his success has been restrained by inferior skating, which has improved from sub par to par. Between this and chemistry found with kid line of Chytil + Kakko, there is basis to believe my projection of him as another Steve Vickers level product.
He is a marketing coup for Canada based teams.

We should expect a premium return, but not a crazy overpay.
The other side must admit that we have no reason to deal him short of an offer too good to refuse, and do so in currency acceptable to NY.

At present, I believe the Oil, who want to max the McDrai years, would pay to add him as a foundation piece.

Rangers need to add some speed and youth. NY has not listened to bern, and done stupid win now rentals favoring vets over youth, and needs to compensate for this.

EDM can do
late 1st
Broberg
Holloway
McLeod
Lajoie

for

LaF
Jones
Leschyshn
Blidh
Belzille

Rs wi every aspect of this except for surrendering LaF, which is fine b'c it is a huge marketing coup to land LaF over Habs, Leafs, etc etc
and more importantly, LaF looks like he could trigger nicely w/McD/Drai.

Other pieces are a wince for Oil taking back less value in return, but they are expendable.

Until bread is dealt, Rs then get to do:
Ottman - Chytil - Kakko
Kreider - Zib - Holloway
Wheeler - Trocheck - Panarin
Cuylie - Goodrow - Pitlick

with other moves to follow

OILERS SAY KNOW QUICKR THAN THEY CAN HANG UP.

How about you overpay if you want Broberg so bad. Laf is headed the way of Puljujarvi and Yakupov( Not as bad but for a 1st OA it is a failure). Why must every team overpay in your world? It not like there rumours of the Oilers being after LaF.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

He's going to have a career year this year since he's playing on the Rangers top line with Mika and Chris.

 

[EXTRAS]

To Vancouver : Lafreniere

To NYR: Podkolzin + Kravtsov + Jovo's happiness

 

[goonybird]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I have reason to believe that Lafreniere could become a Zherdev or even Zubrus-level prospect. Teams should give up multiple first round prospects and a late first for the honour.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Laf for Taylor Raddysh straight up.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

I would trade Mailloux for the lolz