Value of: Top Dollar for Lafreniere

[Savant]

does Kappo look better than Laf?

Kakko is better than Laf

 

[John Mandalorian]

Mostly lost with some occasional solid fundamentals and a rare flash of talent. His skating is an issue, but the bigger problem is that his first step is already slow and he isn’t reading/processing the game quick enough to compensate for it anyway, so he just looks flat out sluggish. Everything about him looks slow. His skating, his telegraphed passes, the release on his shot. It looks like he’s struggling with the pace.

Not processing the game quick enough?

Button gives him 5/5 on hockey sense. LOL

 

[Bouboumaster]

I'd try him as a reclamation project but we ain't paying a Dach Return for him since he didn't prove at anytime that he had Dach's talents

What NYR are after? Help right now or prospects/picks?

 

[LokiDog]

Not processing the game quick enough?

Button gives him 5/5 on hockey sense. LOL

Okay, so today, based on the categories given in that video:

Skating: 2/5
Hockey Sense: 3/5
Competitiveness: 4.5/5
Scoring Touch: 3.5/5
Shot: 3.5/5

Pretty wild how wrong scouts were about this kid. His skating is f***ing atrocious and his ability to process the game maybe would be okay if he was fast, but since he’s slow as lymphoma the fact that he can’t even decide what he’s gonna do with the puck before he gets it (like other “slow” guys like Pavelski or Robertson do) just makes him look like he’s actively wearing ankle and wrist weights. If he did EVERYTHING 80% faster, both physically and mentally, he’d have a chance at being an actual top line talent some day. He doesn’t, and he doesn’t.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Okay, so today, based on the categories given in that video:

Skating: 2/5
Hockey Sense: 3/5
Competitiveness: 4.5/5
Scoring Touch: 3.5/5
Shot: 3.5/5

Pretty wild how wrong scouts were about this kid. His skating is f***ing atrocious and his ability to process the game maybe would be okay if he was fast, but since he’s slow as lymphoma the fact that he can’t even decide what he’s gonna do with the puck before he gets it (like other “slow” guys like Pavelski or Robertson do) just makes him look like he’s actively wearing ankle and wrist weights. If he did EVERYTHING 80% faster, both physically and mentally, he’d have a chance at being an actual top line talent some day. He doesn’t, and he doesn’t.

A team out West that plays a heavy game might make sense. Maybe someone like Vegas or Dallas? LA or Minnesota might make some sense too. If his highest score is compete and the other scores are that bad, that clearly says he needs to find success on some teams 3rd line.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Include a signed vintage Daigle jersey and you've double Lafreniere's value

 

[M Ace]

your op and you are entitled to be wrong.
Look at it thiis way....
Bro was drafted what, 8, 9OA?
Holloway was like `16Oa?
[from memory and I'm too busy to check]
add McLeod was not a 1st rounder, right?
and EDM 2024 1ST projects to be late, yes?

so, if you had a 1OA on the table for like 8 + 16 + very late 1st +,
would you take it?

Sure Laf is disappointing as a 1OA
but he is still a good investment $$ wise due to marketing, intangibles, and shows shooting ability. The hope is, like w/Chytil + Kakko, he would find chemistry w/McD/Drai/+ ______

I am still bullish on Broberg.
But has he excelled and burst on the scene day 1 like Mo Seider? NO.
Has Holloway seized/cemented a W slot? NO

So if you are really honest about it, the upside of LaF could work for Oil, and NY could use speed/depth.

In my opinion Laf isn’t worth even McLeod right now. Because what McLeod does for this tema.

I also don’t think it’s worth the whole prospect pool for a reclamation project like Laf.

It’s like when we wanted to get rid of Yakupov for other teams highly touted prospects.

I believe if we can have him for a late first/Holloway & 4th rounder maybe it would be worth it!

 

[bernmeister]

Sure, but the premise of this thread, per the OP, was to see what the best offer would be while shopping him to other teams. You then changed it up and said it has to be an overpay and other teams have to accept that. If Edmonton (per your scenario) were to be contacted by the Rangers to unload Laf, why again are they overpaying? It makes no sense. If Edmonton were calling about him and the scenario were reversed, then sure.

To the extent we are viewing the single side of the coin, you are right.
All I am asking you to admit is, coins DO have 2 sides to them.
Rs would be stupid to be confined to limitations of OP inquiry, which he had a right to ask.
This is not a scenario where they gotta lose the guy NOW.
They should be open to moving him at a good return, whether or not that is top dollar.
IMO 4-5 useful pieces w/upside is that, better than trying for a higher end prospect.
This is a case where 1.20 in assorted change is worth a buck and some pennies for both sides.

Does it ever get tiresome being a troll?

I gave a breakdown demonstrating a rationale for this deal based on objective criteria of where drafted. All draftees not crushing it. Value favors Rangers, but not lopsided given how currency exchanged is a better fit for both teams.

Panarin on your 3rd line? Chytil over Trochek and Zib? Othman on the 1st? Why do you hate the Rangers so much?


We are talking about the draft and where you would put Laf today. You would take the 17th pick over the 1st wouldn't you?

If you are looking at the top end talent of that draft, you wouldn't put Laf into any consideration of comparing them to Laf would you?

She would be well outside the top3 and not really in any sort of conversation of that kind of talent.

When we drafted Krav, I said I would go along with it b'c I did not know other than he had track record favorable vs. Panarin, he had size etc, and on paper looked good. That said, my choice was Dobson. I was right.
When we got 1OA, and they said to the effect "this kid is the best non-generational 1OA since MacKinnon", I went along with it. I didn't have any data to suggest otherwise, and would have wanted the moon for a 1OA, but not dealing otherwise.
Don't let it be said bern is not honest.

 

[bernmeister]

In my opinion Laf isn’t worth even McLeod right now. Because what McLeod does for this tema.

I also don’t think it’s worth the whole prospect pool for a reclamation project like Laf.

It’s like when we wanted to get rid of Yakupov for other teams highly touted prospects.

I believe if we can have him for a late first/Holloway & 4th rounder maybe it would be worth it!

I like McLeod up to a pt. I saw he had to go on waivers briefly, and he is a useful but smaller cog, and value him accordingly.

As to the bold,
LaF -- value = top/best offer competitive bidding
vs
LaF stays w/Rangers, and FOR ONCE THEY EFFIN LISTEN TO BERN, and keep the kid line together as a 1st line w/top mins, and based on that, and improved skating, he ups his value.

Your offer is a good minimum, but he will command more, whether now or later.
Again, this kid will grow into another Vickers, if they listen to bern and don't eff it up.

 

[Jee]

He fits whats Hughes and Gorton want as a reclamation project, and he was drafted by the latter. If we trade for him, I hope we don't give much.

St-Louis could do wonders for him.

 

[AirGut]

hard to imagine this kids mental outlook getting better with fanbases all dog-piling onto him.
And now with young guys like Othmann and Cuylle who are actively outplaying him at his LW job, I really do think the Lafreniere saga needs to be put to rest in NY.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I don't think it's that crazy for a rebuilding/re-tooling team to trade a 30 year old dman on 6.5 mil in favour of a former #1 pick.

Granted Lafreniere hasn't shown nearly enough but I think it's still lightly too early to throw in the towel on him until he gets some better opportunities.

Which segues into the next point. While his shooting percentage may have been unsustainable that year, the fact that he scored 19 ES goals with virtually no PP time and 3rd line 5v5 minutes more than offsets that.

He hasn't earned top line/top PP minutes in NY but nonetheless if he were given them on a team like STL I think he can see a huge jump in production.

I think the risk is worth the reward for a former highly touted #1 overall pick who is still only 21.

I would think St Louis could get a lot more value than a package around Lafreniere if they were trading Parayko (and taking back cap hit as well). They would probably just prefer a 1st round pick+ to Lafreniere.

 

[hawksrule]

If I were the Rangers and I could get a late 1st and c-prospect I’d take it. Othmann, Cuylle, etc. look like better options anyway. NYR got a raw deal for 1oa, but whatever, face it and move on.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

LaF has disappointed as a 1OA, but an honest assessment is his success has been restrained by inferior skating, which has improved from sub par to par. Between this and chemistry found with kid line of Chytil + Kakko, there is basis to believe my projection of him as another Steve Vickers level product.
He is a marketing coup for Canada based teams.

We should expect a premium return, but not a crazy overpay.
The other side must admit that we have no reason to deal him short of an offer too good to refuse, and do so in currency acceptable to NY.

At present, I believe the Oil, who want to max the McDrai years, would pay to add him as a foundation piece.

Rangers need to add some speed and youth. NY has not listened to bern, and done stupid win now rentals favoring vets over youth, and needs to compensate for this.

EDM can do
late 1st
Broberg
Holloway
McLeod
Lajoie

for

LaF
Jones
Leschyshn
Blidh
Belzille

Rs wi every aspect of this except for surrendering LaF, which is fine b'c it is a huge marketing coup to land LaF over Habs, Leafs, etc etc
and more importantly, LaF looks like he could trigger nicely w/McD/Drai.

Other pieces are a wince for Oil taking back less value in return, but they are expendable.

Until bread is dealt, Rs then get to do:
Ottman - Chytil - Kakko
Kreider - Zib - Holloway
Wheeler - Trocheck - Panarin
Cuylie - Goodrow - Pitlick

with other moves to follow

Still got a raging hard on for Broberg I see.

Edmonton needs a reclamation project winger like they need a hole in the head and they certainly wouldn’t give up their 3 or 4 best trade assets to trade for one.

This proposal is laughably unrealistic and completely ignores value and needs from Oilers point of view. They would have near zero interest in Laf unless he’s coming dirt cheap.

 

[John Mandalorian]

He fits whats Hughes and Gorton want as a reclamation project, and he was drafted by the latter. If we trade for him, I hope we don't give much.

St-Louis could do wonders for him.

From NY to Montreal?

Montreal might be worse for him than NY.

 

[bernmeister]

Still got a raging hard on for Broberg I see.

Edmonton needs a reclamation project winger like they need a hole in the head and they certainly wouldn’t give up their 3 or 4 best trade assets to trade for one.

This proposal is laughably unrealistic and completely ignores value and needs from Oilers point of view. They would have near zero interest in Laf unless he’s coming dirt cheap.

your post demonstrates you are far more a homer than I am
the narrative that LaF= reclamation is premature b'c it is factually true he is successful part of successful kid line

like I said in prior post, Oil pieces are prospects who have potential, but not yet significantly delivered.
If we are objective based on when drafted, it is not as whackadoo as you suggest

 

[Jee]

From NY to Montreal?

Montreal might be worse for him than NY.

why?

 

[kiwi51]

How much ice time is Laf getting compared to his teammates?

 

[AvroArrow]

I think the guy just needs a change of scenery, his confidence is likely destroyed in that environment at this point.

 

[Skolman]

His skating HAS BEEN an issue and still is nothing to brag about, but has turned corner from sub par to par. I agree that recognizing/processing is a potential problem, one that will be resolved with experience, but meanwhile the solution is to just play the kid line intact w/mo = 1st Ine mins.
Of course, instead of yielding to this correct logic, some insist on playing him at RW, or other lines. That should wait until his skating is better.


read post 123

Again, what are you smoking?

That post just makes you sound even worse

 

[SupremeTeam16]

your post demonstrates you are far more a homer than I am
the narrative that LaF= reclamation is premature b'c it is factually true he is successful part of successful kid line

like I said in prior post, Oil pieces are prospects who have potential, but not yet significantly delivered.
If we are objective based on when drafted, it is not as whackadoo as you suggest

Actually it is whackadoo because regardless of Laf’s actual value, it still doesn’t take into account that a struggling former first overall left winger with a 2.3M cap hit is really, really low on Edmonton’s priority list, it’s a non existent need. That fact makes, what you believe would be a reasonable ask even more of a joke.

 

[HabsAddict]

Harris for Laf?

Abundance of LD but certainly not going to give up forwards.

 

[TGWL]

Don't ask me why, there's no good reason for it, but if there's one place I can kind of picture Lafreniere going and thriving it's St. Louis, growing with the Kyrou/Thomas core up front.

If the Rangers think they can go for it this year, would both team consider Parayko for Lafreniere + whatever filler is needed for salary?

Fox, Parayko, Miller, Trouba gives the NYR a great top 4.

In the right situation, Laf is still a highly skilled player with 35+ goal potential. He scored 19 goals ES two seasons ago.

The filler needed for salary isn't filler. We have no cap space this season.



The finishing is probably his best asset right now. His hand-eye coordination is great. His net front play is not bad. Does he need to take more shots, or create more chances? Absolutely. But even with his shooting percentage dropping, the finishing ability still seems to be his best asset. But these chances come with little thinking and more reaction to a loose puck. He can be gritty, but throwing your body at a player who already moved the puck isn't doing anything but getting you on some badly tracked hits stat sheet.

Did he work on his balance? Did he work on having quicker feet? Did he work on his transition? Did he work on his edgework I honestly don't know. But looking at preseason, nothing looks different there. If you can't think the game and buy yourself more time by reading plays or making quicker reaction plays, then you at least better be able to skate. If you can't do either, it's going to be tough.

It looks like the experiment on top 6 RW has ended. (although could change). He's more comfortable on the left side, but if he wanted a definite top 6 role, it would have had to been on the right side. I don't even care about the point totals. I just want to watch him make plays and do the little things that you expect from a roster player.

Harris for Laf?

Abundance of LD but certainly not going to give up forwards.

No.
Rangers have their top 6. Jones is potentially the odd man out at 7. There's no room for Harris.

 

[One Winged Angel]

How is Lafreniere emerging as a Steve Vickers type? Vickers already had a top 10 goals finish by his 3rd season.

It's almost impossible how out of touch this sounds.

If things don't change soon, his value could be almost worthless by this time next year. He's not exactly a gamble at 2.3M and his 5v5 production rates have declined each year. This could be the last off-season where he could potentially return a promising young player / higher draft pick. That could put even more pressure on the rangers to trade him before his value falls any lower.

Bern thought Boo Nieves deserved a shot as 1C because if synergy.

He also said Kreider could be the next Dave Keon.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Best he stays far away from Montréal if you don't want Laf to become suicidal

He's already at that point in NYC... Going to Montreal might be two negatives = positive?

Not sure what happens with Lafreniere with the Rangers but this season is a big one. Shit or get off the pot time.