Value of: Top Dollar for Lafreniere

[LaffyTaffy13]

What has Lafreniere accomplished so far?

Pathetic numbers for a first overall - not to say that every 1st OA is going to be a Matthews or McDavid, but it's clear this guy is more Yakupov.

2020-21	New York Rangers	NHL	56	12	9	21	8	-7
2021-22	New York Rangers	NHL	79	19	12	31	37	2	20	2	7	9	11
2022-23	New York Rangers	NHL	81	16	23	39	33	10	7	0	0	0	0
2023-24	New York Rangers	NHL	17	8	4	12	4	1
	NHL Totals		233	55	48	103	82		27	2	7	9	11

For comparison here's Yakupov's stats before leaving the NHL.

2012-13	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	48	17	14	31	24	-4	--	--	--	--	--
2013-14	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	63	11	13	24	36	-33	--	--	--	--	--
2014-15	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	81	14	19	33	18	-35	--	--	--	--	--
2015-16	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	60	8	15	23	24	-16	--	--	--	--	--
2016-17	St. Louis Blues	NHL	40	3	6	9	14	-3	--	--	--	--	--
2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	58	9	7	16	26	2	--	--	--	--	--

That’s egg you feel. Dripping down your face.

Way to commit an argument fallacy.

A. There isn’t a trade or series of trades that guarantee a cup. If it did teams would trade all their picks without issue.

2. Some management teams treat their picks with high regard because of the above. They need these picks in a cap world in hopes of a cheaper production player. So it isn’t just HF.

D. Yes HF does overvalue picks sometimes, that doesn’t mean a lavisj trade for Laf puts anyone in a better position to win the cup. His shooting percentage is high and his history isn’t great. Skepticism is likely to occur here.

Respectfully, his career shooting percentage is higher than conor mcdavids. Career, not year.

And no, hes not near conor mcdavids level. However, last year was the exception not the norm. He was snake bit.

Oh yeah, you should look at his 5 on 5 stats. One of the best in the world this year. He doesnt even get pp time yet due to bread, mika, fox, kreider and the faceoff king vinny trocheck

 

[GAGLine]

What has Lafreniere accomplished so far?

Pathetic numbers for a first overall - not to say that every 1st OA is going to be a Matthews or McDavid, but it's clear this guy is more Yakupov.

2020-21	New York Rangers	NHL	56	12	9	21	8	-7
2021-22	New York Rangers	NHL	79	19	12	31	37	2	20	2	7	9	11
2022-23	New York Rangers	NHL	81	16	23	39	33	10	7	0	0	0	0
2023-24	New York Rangers	NHL	17	8	4	12	4	1
	NHL Totals		233	55	48	103	82		27	2	7	9	11

For comparison here's Yakupov's stats before leaving the NHL.

2012-13	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	48	17	14	31	24	-4	--	--	--	--	--
2013-14	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	63	11	13	24	36	-33	--	--	--	--	--
2014-15	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	81	14	19	33	18	-35	--	--	--	--	--
2015-16	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	60	8	15	23	24	-16	--	--	--	--	--
2016-17	St. Louis Blues	NHL	40	3	6	9	14	-3	--	--	--	--	--
2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	58	9	7	16	26	2	--	--	--	--	--

That's the problem with basing your opinion entirely on point totals. It ignores all context. Even now, in Laf's 4th year, he doesn't get PP1 time. How many players score at a point per game pace without significant PP time? Not many. Last year, McDavid had 153 points in 82 games, but only 75 of those points were at even strength.

You also need to watch him play. He is a completely different player this year. He is confident and he is getting multiple chances every game at 5 on 5. Yes, he is playing with Panarin, but he is driving that line every bit as much as Panarin is. They have been dynamic together. We're finally seeing the player we thought we drafted.

 

[Adam da bomb]

That's the problem with basing your opinion entirely on point totals. It ignores all context. Even now, in Laf's 4th year, he doesn't get PP1 time. How many players score at a point per game pace without significant PP time? Not many. Last year, McDavid had 153 points in 82 games, but only 75 of those points were at even strength.

You also need to watch him play. He is a completely different player this year. He is confident and he is getting multiple chances every game at 5 on 5. Yes, he is playing with Panarin, but he is driving that line every bit as much as Panarin is. They have been dynamic together. We're finally seeing the player we thought we drafted.

Interesting. Looks like he is having a great season. I don’t watch much Rangers but a point a game is huge, surprised that doesn’t earn you some pp time.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Interesting. Looks like he is having a great season. I don’t watch much Rangers but a point a game is huge, surprised that doesn’t earn you some pp time.

Nobody to bump. Krieder is the master in front of the net, Trocheck is a cheat code on the face off. Mika has his one time blast, and Panarin you arent moving.

 

[bernmeister]

@FoxysExpensiveNYDigs gave usual haha to my last post.
As ever, noting to contribute and has no objective counter to refute anything I've said.

bern was/is right, and I get cred for calling it out ahead of the curve

unsubstantiated efforts to malign me will not succeed, esp in the face of objective fact
LaF has arrived

 

[Mrfenn92]

@FoxysExpensiveNYDigs gave usual haha to my last post.
As ever, noting to contribute and has no objective counter to refute anything I've said.

bern was/is right, and I get cred for calling it out ahead of the curve

unsubstantiated efforts to malign me will not succeed, esp in the face of objective fact
LaF has arrived

Maybe you’re right. But you were terribly wrong about kravstov and Nieves.

 

[waitin425]

Would love him on the Habs, but probably wouldn't spend the price that Rangers would be asking.

Mailloux + that conditional Calgary pick + Farrell

 

[Adam da bomb]

Nobody to bump. Krieder is the master in front of the net, Trocheck is a cheat code on the face off. Mika has his one time blast, and Panarin you arent moving.

And the second unit? Is your pp all forwards? That’s awesome and not something you see every day.

 

[KevinRedkey]

FWIW I wanted Ottawa to offer-sheet Laf at the expense of a 2nd rounder ($2,145,062 - $4,290,125) before NYR locked him up. Not to screw over the Rangers, but because I felt his underlying even-strength numbers last year were decent, and he had some obvious upside. That, and there was a reasonable chance NYR wouldn't match closer to the top of that range.

Dorion went a different direction (brought in Tarasenko instead), and I'm not comlaining - but it was a missed opportunity to not (potentially) get in on Laf for a 2nd IMO.

The other target I had was Farabee, who's value is a lot higher today as well. Both those ships have sailed.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

And the second unit? Is your pp all forwards? That’s awesome and not something you see every day.

First unit has 1 defenseman, Fox, now Gustafsson while Fox is out.

Laf is on the 2nd unit but 1st stays out for the majority so the second unit doesnt get much time to get in and set up normally.

Nothing will likely change anytime soon either since they are 2nd on the PP in the league.

 

[ole ole]

Dach-level return would likely be the best offer ATM.

I personally think Laf is breaking out this year. I wanted Ottawa to offer-sheet him instead of signing Tarasenko. But now I believe his price will go up significantly by July 2024, and be too costly to acquire.

Sure a Dach level return but your not getting Dack.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Curious to see if Lafreniere’s early struggles can be blamed on the Rangers’ impotent 5v5 play, log jam at LW and coaching carousel and whether other franchises think he still has untapped value.

Wanting to see what’s the top value Laf could fetch. Or what you’d be willing to move if Laf came with a pick/another young player, etc. What’s the most he could bring back heading into D+4 right now.

considering the oilers are having trouble getting any good offers for either McDavid or Leon--getting a top 4 guy for Lafreniere? Could be interesting

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Maybe you’re right. But you were terribly wrong about kravstov and Nieves.

Amongst many, many others.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Give it time, floating around like he is

He's driving that line almost as much as Panarin, god your post aged horribly

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What has Lafreniere accomplished so far?

Pathetic numbers for a first overall - not to say that every 1st OA is going to be a Matthews or McDavid, but it's clear this guy is more Yakupov.

2020-21	New York Rangers	NHL	56	12	9	21	8	-7
2021-22	New York Rangers	NHL	79	19	12	31	37	2	20	2	7	9	11
2022-23	New York Rangers	NHL	81	16	23	39	33	10	7	0	0	0	0
2023-24	New York Rangers	NHL	17	8	4	12	4	1
	NHL Totals		233	55	48	103	82		27	2	7	9	11

For comparison here's Yakupov's stats before leaving the NHL.

2012-13	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	48	17	14	31	24	-4	--	--	--	--	--
2013-14	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	63	11	13	24	36	-33	--	--	--	--	--
2014-15	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	81	14	19	33	18	-35	--	--	--	--	--
2015-16	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	60	8	15	23	24	-16	--	--	--	--	--
2016-17	St. Louis Blues	NHL	40	3	6	9	14	-3	--	--	--	--	--
2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	58	9	7	16	26	2	--	--	--	--	--

Your post makes no sense.

Yakupov was decent his first season, and then bad every season after that. Lafreniere wasn't very good when he entered the league, and has gotten better every season of his career.

Their situations are virtually opposite.

Nobody to bump. Krieder is the master in front of the net, Trocheck is a cheat code on the face off. Mika has his one time blast, and Panarin you arent moving.

Mika can take the face-offs.

 

[HuGort]

Lafreniere revival gives me hope for Slaf

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Rangers weren't moving Laf when he sucked

Definitely not moving him now that he's breaking out. Their patience has paid off.

He's had a couple GWG so far this year. Picking up the slack for Kreider and Zibanejad 5 on 5.

If this is the Laf we get moving forward and (1) of Kreider/Zib play to their salary, the Rangers are going to be an absolute wagon the rest of the year.

If I were a betting man (and I am) I would put a considerable sum of money on Rangers futures right now. What they've been able to do without Adam Fox is extremely impressive

 

[oceanchild]

He's driving that line almost as much as Panarin, god your post aged horribly

For a couple weeks ? Let’s give this some time. I am happy the kids playing well for you, it’s totally great. It’s why ranger fans keep starting threads to trade the guy.

 

[bernmeister]

For a couple weeks ? Let’s give this some time. I am happy the kids playing well for you, it’s totally great. It’s why ranger fans keep starting threads to trade the guy.

Dat wuz den an dis is now.

There are no sacred cows, almost anyone can be had, but its gonna cost.

 

[oceanchild]

Dat wuz den an dis is now.

There are no sacred cows, almost anyone can be had, but its gonna cost.

Hahahahaha, what a show. If he is so good, you’re going to trade a 1OA pick, on a cheap contract. I thought he was a play driving stud. Keep him, he ain’t ever living up to his draft status.

 

[bernmeister]

Maybe you’re right. But you were terribly wrong about kravstov and Nieves.

no, this attempt at revisionist history needs to be fully repudiated and I will expect your retractions

Krav --
1. I am on record that I wanted Dobson
2. We went in another direction, ok, I said it was incumbent on Drury to not piss away a top 10 pick and develop this guy, even if he was not Drury's guy.
Did not listen to me
kicked the can
kicked the can
kicked the can
kicked the can
until finally kicking no longer an option, Rs got bent over for NOT listening to me, not b'c they followed my advise.

Boo --
I am on record, never said in a vacuum this was a top talent guy; I said b'c both Kreider and Zib were established first line material (a fact you must concede), thus IF he was their pivot, he would have to be regarded as a first line pivot, esp since these were dark days in Ranger land, and there were no other Fs challenging to be the first line,
I stand by what I said
One formula that works is for a line with a driver of play, a facilitator, and a scorer.
Respectively Kreider,, Nieves and Zib at RW fit that design

My complaint here is that THEY DID NOT EVEN TRY
AND THERE IS NO FUGGIN EXCUSE FOR NOT GIVING IT A LEGIT TRY
NONE
NONE
NONE

And so after the fact, again, it is proven bern was right
the alternatives R mgmt went with did not pan out
it took YEARS for us to add to get to where we are now

Would doing what I said have resolved all R probs as to the other 3 lines needing depth? no.
But it would have served as a functional stopgap until a better pivot showed up.

But again, NO EXCUSE FOR NOT TRYING
NONE

I don't mind you criticizing but be accurate or I will have to keep calling you out

 

[bernmeister]

Hahahahaha, what a show. If he is so good, you’re going to trade a 1OA pick, on a cheap contract. I thought he was a play driving stud. Keep him, he ain’t ever living up to his draft status.

Rs have Othmann
his value is < b'c he has no varsity track record
we think he has upside

We should NOT be moving LaF for the sake of moving him
same with shesty, just bc we have Quick + w/Garand available to replace soon

But if enuf on table it should be considered

 

[oceanchild]

Rs have Othmann
his value is < b'c he has no varsity track record
we think he has upside

We should NOT be moving LaF for the sake of moving him
same with shesty, just bc we have Quick + w/Garand available to replace soon

But if enuf on table it should be considered

Great stuff, a couple good weeks doesn’t make a player, I hope your magic beans work out for you.

 

[King In The North]

Would love him on the Habs, but probably wouldn't spend the price that Rangers would be asking.

Mailloux + that conditional Calgary pick + Farrell

That package might get you a rental but certainly not Laf.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

@FoxysExpensiveNYDigs gave usual haha to my last post.
As ever, noting to contribute and has no objective counter to refute anything I've said.

bern was/is right, and I get cred for calling it out ahead of the curve

unsubstantiated efforts to malign me will not succeed, esp in the face of objective fact
LaF has arrived

You sure love to take victory laps on things you were wrong on. Your entire assertion was that Laf would succeed if the kid line was put back together. That hasnt happened.