Speculation: Tomas Hertl

[Doctor Soraluce]

Nah. Hertl's good but people don't go out of their way and buy tickets to see him live, sorry. Trading him shouldn't have much impact on attendance and interest in Sharks hockey going forward

Tell me you know nothing about the Sharks without saying you know nothing about the Sharks.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

You're missing the point.

Hertl will evaluate at the trade deadline which teams give him the best shot at winning the Cup and will likely only be interested in going to that small handful of teams.

It won't be a true bidding war between all 16 playoff teams as Hertl has the power to nix deals.

This will very likely limit the value received by the SJS as fewer bidders generally means lower bids.

That's not how the TDL works typically. Say its the Avs and Vegas who both want him. Neither one will want to lose out and then have to face the other team in the conference final with Hertl on their roster. So they will keep upping their bid to close the deal and keep the other team from getting him at the very least. If Hertl's healthy and the Sharks do trade him, which I doubt, it's going to cost a 1st, an NHL ready prospect (center) and another mid tier prospect and/or a 3rd or 4th minimum. Depends on if the Sharks need to retain or take back a cap dump. He would be one of the best centers traded at the TDL in a number of years.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

It's incredible how many people don't actually watch the Sharks

Yup. It seems none of these posters have any clue what he's capable of or just how popular he is to the not only the locker room, but the fan base.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

If a team like Colorado wants him and a team like lets say Minnesota also wants him at the deadline, and Minnesota is willing to give the Sharks more in trade......Hertl is going to Colorado.

Sharks don't have to tell Hertl there are multiple chances. They will only tell Hertl about the one possibility that brings back the most return. Then Hertl will waive. Here's the real math... The 3 teams on his list plus any other team that is in the upper half of the playoff picture so likely more like closer to 8 teams (likely at a minimum) as potential destinations at the TDL.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think it's weird that people say SJ is in win now mode.

They are a bottom-5 team.

They have almost no cap to bring in good enough players.

They have bottom-5 prospect pool.

They shouldn't be in win now mode, they should be in blow it up and rebuild mode.

They’re literally not a bottom five team when they finished with the 7th pick. They’re better than a bottom five prospect pool at this point. Your talking points are out of date by about a year.

 

[PAZ]

Sharks don't have to tell Hertl there are multiple chances. They will only tell Hertl about the one possibility that brings back the most return. Then Hertl will waive. Here's the real math... The 3 teams on his list plus any other team that is in the upper half of the playoff picture so likely more like closer to 8 teams (likely at a minimum) as potential destinations at the TDL.

You seriously don’t think Hertl’s agent won’t know if a team is interested in him? Maybe a decade or two it could’ve worked, but there is no chance that the agent won’t know of any offer that’s coming to his client.

GMs talk to agents to talk about possibility of extensions, interest in the city, salary range, etc. without having to talk to the team directly.

 

[TheBeard]

You seriously don’t think Hertl’s agent won’t know if a team is interested in him? Maybe a decade or two it could’ve worked, but there is no chance that the agent won’t know of any offer that’s coming to his client.

GMs talk to agents to talk about possibility of extensions, interest in the city, salary range, etc. without having to talk to the team directly.

I’m sure 31 teams would be interested in having Hertl on their team. Doesn’t mean anyone with an offer of a ham sandwich has earned the right to put him in a uniform. And no, most of the extension stuff cannot be discussed in any form or it’s considering tampering.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

You seriously don’t think Hertl’s agent won’t know if a team is interested in him? Maybe a decade or two it could’ve worked, but there is no chance that the agent won’t know of any offer that’s coming to his client.

GMs talk to agents to talk about possibility of extensions, interest in the city, salary range, etc. without having to talk to the team directly.

I don't disagree with this, but what do the exact tampering rules say?

I'm guessing it's somewhat of a gray area unless something's proven.

GM asking an agent... Tampering. Player as friends chatting with one another, "man it would be cool if we could play together soon", I'm sure those conversations happen. And unofficially can get to the GM or agent.

 

[PAZ]

I’m sure 31 teams would be interested in having Hertl on their team. Doesn’t mean anyone with an offer of a ham sandwich has earned the right to put him in a uniform. And no, most of the extension stuff cannot be discussed in any form or it’s considering tampering.

It was in reference to keeping trade offers a secret to Hertl. If a team has put in an offer for Hertl at the TDL, Hertl and his agent will know about it. Technically it's considered tampering, but it happens all the time. Half the free agents sign within the first few hours of free agency, contract extensions are signed within a day of a player being traded to a new team, etc.

 

[TheBeard]

It was in reference to keeping trade offers a secret to Hertl. If a team has put in an offer for Hertl at the TDL, Hertl and his agent will know about it. Technically it's considered tampering, but it happens all the time. Half the free agents sign within the first few hours of free agency, contract extensions are signed within a day of a player being traded to a new team, etc.

There's a huge difference between the legal tampering period of the offseason and trying to get a player to waive (or not waive) an NTC by leaking numbers to them. That's a MASSIVE no-no.

In terms of trade offers? Possibly, and the team may be willing to accommodate a player based on where they want to go (or simply not trade him if the offer is lowball), but at the end of the day the team has to do what's best for them. Hertl is a UFA at the end of the year and if he chooses to he can go to any destination he wants, but don't fool yourself into thinking teams wouldn't also be reluctant to throw any sort of modified NMC at him if he holds his former team hostage in terms of preventing them from maximizing his trade value.

 

[PAZ]

There's a huge difference between the legal tampering period of the offseason and trying to get a player to waive (or not waive) an NTC by leaking numbers to them. That's a MASSIVE no-no.

In terms of trade offers? Possibly, and the team may be willing to accommodate a player based on where they want to go (or simply not trade him if the offer is lowball), but at the end of the day the team has to do what's best for them. Hertl is a UFA at the end of the year and if he chooses to he can go to any destination he wants, but don't fool yourself into thinking teams wouldn't also be reluctant to throw any sort of modified NMC at him if he holds his former team hostage in terms of preventing them from maximizing his trade value.

So what exactly is the point of a NTC if the player isn’t able to use it? Nobody held it against Hall for vetoing destinations because it was negotiated in his contract. If San Jose wants to trade him, nobody will consider it a black mark if he refuses any trade besides his 3 teams. On the other hand, San Jose can also decide not to trade him if they don’t believe the offers from the 3 teams aren’t worth it.

Each situation is different, for all we know Hertl will be super accommodating and be willing to go anywhere to help the Sharks,but let’s not make up these farfetched claims like teams being wary of him if he decides to utilize a clause in his contract.

You’re also being naive if you think tampering doesn’t happen during the TDL. It may not be directly from the GM to the agent/player, but all the information still gets passed along.

 

[TheBeard]

So what exactly is the point of a NTC if the player isn’t able to use it? Nobody held it against Hall for vetoing destinations because it was negotiated in his contract. If San Jose wants to trade him, nobody will consider it a black mark if he refuses any trade besides his 3 teams. On the other hand, San Jose can also decide not to trade him if they don’t believe the offers from the 3 teams aren’t worth it.

If you're Hertl, or any elite player, you wouldn't I imagine want to go to a perennial rebuilding team and/or a team already out of the playoffs. There's a big difference between Hertl not wanting to go to a Detroit or a Buffalo and not wanting to go to a team in or on the cusp of being in the playoffs. It also may be a geographical thing or a coaching thing or a personnel thing. There's a multitude of reasons why a player may or may not want to waive. Hall isn't really a good example because he wanted to basically play with one team and then resigned with that team on a discount. Why would Boston have been slighted by that? I will say I doubt Vegas was much interested in signing him after they'd found out he nixed a trade to them. Hall also had no allegiance to the Sabres as he was on his own one year deal. Hertl may or may not feel obligated to be a little more accommodating buts merely speculation on my part.

In terms of negotiations, usually teams ask for permission beforehand to talk numbers if a deal is nearing, but I highly doubt agents will go behind teams' backs to talk numbers as a form of leverage. That's a good way to get that agents' clients blackballed.

 

[TBF1972]

I think it's weird that people say SJ is in win now mode.

They are a bottom-5 team.

They have almost no cap to bring in good enough players.

They have bottom-5 prospect pool.

They shouldn't be in win now mode, they should be in blow it up and rebuild mode.

but did their gm write a letter?

 

[TBF1972]

Weird or not it's what management says. They intend to try for the playoffs.

Bottom 5 team season before last, 7th last season right? Small details but now with better goaltending and everyone healthy and with more vet depth they could easily be a bubble playoff team or better considering the pacific is a tire fire of a division. No, I don't see them as a "contender" but they're not as far off as some think from at least being a playoff team.

They don't need to bring in "good enough players" they need the ones they have to play up to their ability and stay healthy and then the over abundance of young guys on the cusp of becoming full time NHLers to actually take the next step. The GM completely remade the goaltending position this last off season which was by far and away their biggest weakness. Don't sleep on Doug Wilson, they don't call him the Dentist for nothing.

Wrong about the prospect pool. Almost every person that ranks prospect systems says the sharks are in the top 1/3rd or higher now after adding like 20 players the last couple years.

Sharks can't blow it up. None of the contracts they would need to move to "blow it up" can be moved. The GM intends to straddle the line between restocking the system as much as possible while attempting to ice an entertaining team.

Lastly, this whole thread is dumb AF because the GM ain't letting Hertl out of SJ. But hey, you guys go nuts.

i fully understand dw. he can't rebuild today.

most of their long term contracts are tough to move. nobody takes vlasic without a sweetner and if they gain an additional asset by trading hertl, meier or other players with positive value, those assets might get off their elc's before, they have a cleaner cap sheet. kane and burns have four years left, vlasic five, couture and karlsson even six. same as the jones buyout. they basically are dammed to ride out some of these contracts.

if a few of their players with tough to move contracts have a comeback season, the sharks might get on the po bubble (or even make it) and those player gain some value back. at the trade deadline or in the off-season. today they would sell low on them. if those players are really shot, the sharks will be in prime position for the lottery anyway.

but wilson is in a difficult spot with hertl and meier. if he tries to resign them, their term needs to be limited or he moves from one anchor contract to the next in five or six seasons.

 

[HabsAddict]

I wonder if there is a three way deal.....we get Kadri for a 2nd Avs get Hertl for a first and second.

 

[Groo]

I wonder if there is a three way deal.....we get Kadri for a 2nd Avs get Hertl for a first and second.

Doesn't work for the Sharks

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

You seriously don’t think Hertl’s agent won’t know if a team is interested in him? Maybe a decade or two it could’ve worked, but there is no chance that the agent won’t know of any offer that’s coming to his client.

GMs talk to agents to talk about possibility of extensions, interest in the city, salary range, etc. without having to talk to the team directly.

I seriously don't think it'll matter. Hertl's agent doesn't get to make the deal. If he doesn't accept the deal the Sharks want they'll ship him to one of the 3 teams on his list even if they're a bubble team. I don't see any reason for the Sharks to do him any favors or succumb to his wishes if he's not part of their future plans. He isn't a long time part of the franchise at the end of his career looking for one more chance at the cup. He's an in his prime asset. If he's leaving they need to hit the jack pot with the return they get.

Also, if an agent is leaking shit like that the GM is going to be less inclined to play nice in all future negotiations. It's just now how those relationships work. These guys have to be collaborative and not adversarial. The Sharks have always been very accommodating to their guys in the past anyway especially if it's the Sharks choosing to move on.

 

[HabsAddict]

Doesn't work for the Sharks

Sharks are not going to get back a young 60 point center. Not now, not ever.

And Kadri has limited value.

The trade actually makes sense....but of course never enough for anyone on the other team unless they are robbing to other side.

Good luck with that....lol

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

i fully understand dw. he can't rebuild today.

most of their long term contracts are tough to move. nobody takes vlasic without a sweetner and if they gain an additional asset by trading hertl, meier or other players with positive value, those assets might get off their elc's before, they have a cleaner cap sheet. kane and burns have four years left, vlasic five, couture and karlsson even six. same as the jones buyout. they basically are dammed to ride out some of these contracts.

if a few of their players with tough to move contracts have a comeback season, the sharks might get on the po bubble (or even make it) and those player gain some value back. at the trade deadline or in the off-season. today they would sell low on them. if those players are really shot, the sharks will be in prime position for the lottery anyway.

but wilson is in a difficult spot with hertl and meier. if he tries to resign them, their term needs to be limited or he moves from one anchor contract to the next in five or six seasons.

I don't see Meier being an anchor. When he resigns he'll still be young. His next contract if 8 years takes him to 33 or maybe 34. He won't be able to command a huge increase if he doesn't have a great season so he'll be affordable. guys with first line power forward ability like him don't pop up consistently enough for him to be expendable at this point. None of their current crop of prospects bring what he brings either so I'm very reluctant to move him. Rather pay him the 7 mil he's likely worth at the moment over 8 and Hertl the 8x8 and then move Burns next summer and Couture the summer after that (assuming Kane is still immovable at that point). In 2 seasons there will be enough of a cap increase for the Sharks to weather the storm with EK65 and Vlasic. If they need space they'll at least be able to trade Vlasic in 2 years as his clause changes to (I think) 3 teams as opposed to NMC. They can also buy him out or bury him in the minors at that point if necessary.

The situation sucks but there is path thru these contracts moving forward without moving Hertl & Meier. The rest of the roster is going to be so young that most won't get thru their ELCs and likely bridge contracts until the current bad contracts are gone.

 

[KingsFan7824]

They’re literally not a bottom five team when they finished with the 7th pick. They’re better than a bottom five prospect pool at this point. Your talking points are out of date by about a year.

Technically they finished 6th worst. Somehow managed 4 fewer regulation wins than the Kings. 1 point from a literal bottom 5 team. They would've been behind Det in RW with 1 fewer pt as well. 2 points from a bottom 4 team. Bottom 5 team is just shorthand for crap. Relax.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Sharks are not going to get back a young 60 point center. Not now, not ever.

And Kadri has limited value.

The trade actually makes sense....but of course never enough for anyone on the other team unless they are robbing to other side.

Good luck with that....lol

If the Sharks do move Hertl (doubtful), they're getting back a 1st and a high end prospect (most likely center) and something else. If you're calculating this thinking it's less, then you're deluding yourself.

 

[Groo]

Sharks are not going to get back a young 60 point center. Not now, not ever.

And Kadri has limited value.

The trade actually makes sense....but of course never enough for anyone on the other team unless they are robbing to other side.

Good luck with that....lol

Not for the Sharks it doesn't.

 

[HabsAddict]

If the Sharks do move Hertl (doubtful) they're getting back a 1st and a high end prospect (most likely center) and something else. If you're calculating this thinking it's less, then you're deluding yourself.

What did Rheinhart trade bring in? Look it up and weep.

Don't worry, teams are lining up their top centers just for the Sharks....in their dreams.

Just get him in the summer and lose NOTHING.

 

[Groo]

If the Sharks do move Hertl (doubtful) they're getting back a 1st and a high end prospect (most likely center) and something else. If you're calculating this thinking it's less, then you're deluding yourself.

Of the two of us which is the one putting forth a fantasy and which of us ii merely popping the balloon?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

What did Rheinhart trade bring in? Look it up and weep.

Don't worry, teams are lining up their top centers just for the Sharks....in their dreams.

Just get him in the summer and lose NOTHING.

Good luck with that. Reinhart wishes he was as good as Hertl. I bet Reinhart plays as Hertl on his Xbox. Reinhart was traded in the off season after basically saying he wanted out. If you can't see how different the situation then I can't help you. But by all means keep dreaming about how you think NHL trades work.