To sign or not to re-sign that is the question with Freddy Andersen.?

[GQS]

Found it funny when they were pumping his tires prior to the game, calling he and Hellebuyck among the very best goalies in the game but one being the vezina winner... come on

The way Helly played tonight is the way I wish Andersen could play at least SOME OF THE TIME when he's in net. Namely put up a great performance that can steal a game for the Leafs every once in a while or at least keep them in a game they have no business in winning so that the Leafs can comeback and get a victory.

Unfortunately he isn't capable of that the vast majority of time and I really wish the Leafs would cut him loose. I guess trading him is out of the question these days, but at least don't make the mistake of resigning him when we can finally be free of him.

 

[NikoEhlers]

The way Helly played tonight is the way I wish Andersen could play at least SOME OF THE TIME when he's in net. Namely put up a great performance that can steal a game for the Leafs every once in a while or at least keep them in a game they have no business in winning so that the Leafs can comeback and get a victory.

Unfortunately he isn't capable of that the vast majority of time and I really wish the Leafs would cut him loose. I guess trading him is out of the question these days, but at least don't make the mistake of resigning him when we can finally be free of him.

I watch the Jets regularly, Helle doesnt play like this regularly, what you saw was a vezina goalie at his BEST. So what you are asking is for a vezina goalie.

And im not saying Fred is who he used to be, particularly on the PK this season. I for one still think he can get his level back up closer to where he was, but I dont know if it will be for the Leafs. Goalies are like voodoo, and the teams play on limiting odd man rushes where shooters get time is a factor as well.

 

[GQS]

I watch the Jets regularly, Helle doesnt play like this regularly, what you saw was a vezina goalie at his BEST. So what you are asking is for a vezina goalie.

And im not saying Fred is who he used to be, particularly on the PK this season. I for one still think he can get his level back up closer to where he was, but I dont know if it will be for the Leafs. Goalies are like voodoo, and the teams play on limiting odd man rushes where shooters get time is a factor as well.

I get that even the best goalies in the league can't always be standing on their heads, but the thing is at least Helle has shown that he's capable of raising his game to help his team. Andersen HAS NEVER shown to be able to do that for any consistent length of time and especially not during the playoffs. He's had 4+ seasons and 4 playoff series to show that he can be the goalie to lead the Leafs to at least past the 1st round and unfortunately he hasn't been able to do it.

Andersen is a solid goalie and that's it. He's been coddled by the media and by the team and people have made neverending excuses as to why he isn't playing well and they've made him out to be a superstar anytime he's had a decent game. The Leafs have to admit that Freddie isn't the answer and its time to let him go and move in a new direction. If the Leafs had Helle as their goalie for the past 4 playoff series, I'm pretty sure they would've gotten out of the 1st round at least once out of those 4 times, compared to zero with Andersen.

 

[Ports]

What is the alternative we go with Campbell and Hutchinson?

Until we have a better option, isn't what we currently have still our best option?

Sign someone like Antti Rantta whose a UFA in the offseason. He’ll be a lot cheaper and probably play better with Campbell as a tandem.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Sign someone like Antti Rantta whose a UFA in the offseason. He’ll be a lot cheaper and probably play better with Campbell as a tandem.

Raanta is crap now. Like the approach, but this is the wrong goalie.

 

[Le Cobra]

I get that even the best goalies in the league can't always be standing on their heads, but the thing is at least Helle has shown that he's capable of raising his game to help his team. Andersen HAS NEVER shown to be able to do that for any consistent length of time and especially not during the playoffs. He's had 4+ seasons and 4 playoff series to show that he can be the goalie to lead the Leafs to at least past the 1st round and unfortunately he hasn't been able to do it.

Andersen is a solid goalie and that's it. He's been coddled by the media and by the team and people have made neverending excuses as to why he isn't playing well and they've made him out to be a superstar anytime he's had a decent game. The Leafs have to admit that Freddie isn't the answer and its time to let him go and move in a new direction. If the Leafs had Helle as their goalie for the past 4 playoff series, I'm pretty sure they would've gotten out of the 1st round at least once out of those 4 times, compared to zero with Andersen.

In all fairness Andersen HAS shown he can be consistent for 1-2 months at a time. That was in previous seasons. But he has not shown that this season. He has regressed and he seems to have lost his confidence somewhat. Most importantly, Andersen is not a goalie that elevates his game in the postseason-which is one of the most important foundations to a championship caliber team.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

We were actively looking for a goalie last summer, but at that time we weren't 1 goalie away from serious contention. We fixed other holes on defense through TJ and Bogo without losing any of our prospects or picks. This time around thoguh, we really are just 1 goalie away from (maybe) winning it all. We will let Andersen walk and seek for help again.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Leafs aren't signing him regardless of how he performs this season. Ditto for Hyman who will demand 6.5m per season. Expect a 2-3m 1A/B type goaltender to share the net with campbell while upgrading the third and fourth goaltenders.

Kyles cap framework is constantly building around the core (Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Marner - Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie, Holl) which is now made more difficult by a flat cap.

4 year flat cap......:|

 

[Gary Nylund]

I get that even the best goalies in the league can't always be standing on their heads, but the thing is at least Helle has shown that he's capable of raising his game to help his team. Andersen HAS NEVER shown to be able to do that for any consistent length of time and especially not during the playoffs. He's had 4+ seasons and 4 playoff series to show that he can be the goalie to lead the Leafs to at least past the 1st round and unfortunately he hasn't been able to do it.

Andersen is a solid goalie and that's it. He's been coddled by the media and by the team and people have made neverending excuses as to why he isn't playing well and they've made him out to be a superstar anytime he's had a decent game. The Leafs have to admit that Freddie isn't the answer and its time to let him go and move in a new direction. If the Leafs had Helle as their goalie for the past 4 playoff series, I'm pretty sure they would've gotten out of the 1st round at least once out of those 4 times, compared to zero with Andersen.

You've convinced me. Hellybuck is better than Andersen and we'd be better off with a Vezina winner in net. Time to contact the media.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Let him walk. Sign Rittich (1.75-2 m) or trade for a guy like Korpisalo and roll them in a tandem with Campbell.

 

[On-the-Fly]

Any chance he's not playing at 100% health? His movement this year does not look the same at all to me

Maybe, but his movement has never been very good.

 

[Clark4Ever]

This decision would be a lot easier to make if Campbell could stay healthy long enough to get a decent read on him. In all the time he's been here, we haven't been able to give him a run of games.

 

[On-the-Fly]

This decision would be a lot easier to make if Campbell could stay healthy long enough to get a decent read on him. In all the time he's been here, we haven't been able to give him a run of games.

11 games is all weve got out of the guy. You're right about it being easier if he could stay healthy, but he hasnt. And when he got a shot with LA, guess what? Injury.

But the decision on Andersen shouldnt hinge solely on campbell being the guy, but it would tie things up easily and neatly if it turned out he was.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Maybe, but his movement has never been very good.

Not many really see or look into details ... Freddy is a BIG WALL man butterfly goaler who relies on both size and Elkin positioning technique ... he has never been athletic ... it is not in his bag of tricks ... he will never be Price or Helle ... fans don't really get it ... what you are seeing now is a big man goalie who is slowing down a little as he ages ... it happens to most goalers ... he made da saves last night he can make which is all you can ask him to do ... he is not a 10 beller save type goaler and never will be ... my issue with him is when teams put him under pressure like we have seen in playoffs where we can't concentrate through it and gives up softies ... these are type of killer goals against that kill teams morale ... and I don;t trust him in playoffs as he is 0-8 when it counts all with dirty softies

 

[GQS]

In all fairness Andersen HAS shown he can be consistent for 1-2 months at a time. That was in previous seasons. But he has not shown that this season. He has regressed and he seems to have lost his confidence somewhat. Most importantly, Andersen is not a goalie that elevates his game in the postseason-which is one of the most important foundations to a championship caliber team.

In my opinion even Andersen's 'best' is mostly merely pretty good performances that the media and his supporters pump up to be much better than it really was. Everytime the media compliments Freddie's performances almost always when I watch it I feel like it was good at best, but far from being anywhere near as good as people say.

I think this is a case of after seeing Andersen be mediocre to average most of the time that when he does play well people feel the need to over compliment him to try and boost his confidence. And yeah Andersen hasn't shown whatsoever that he can be a elite, clutch goalie that can help take the Leafs far in the playoffs.

 

[On-the-Fly]

Not many really see or look into details ... Freddy is a BIG WALL man butterfly goaler who relies on both size and Elkin positioning technique ... he has never been athletic ... it is not in his bag of tricks ... he will never be Price or Helle ... fans don't really get it ... what you are seeing now is a big man goalie who is slowing down a little as he ages ... it happens to most goalers ... he made da saves last night he can make which is all you can ask him to do ... he is not a 10 beller save type goaler and never will be ... my issue with him is when teams put him under pressure like we have seen in playoffs where we can't concentrate through it and gives up softies ... these are type of killer goals against that kill teams morale ... and I don;t trust him in playoffs as he is 0-8 when it counts all with dirty softies

He is a guy that relies on angles and efficiency of movement for sure. Thats why he gets beat easily laterally, and up high by the ears, no doubt. And he could be slowing down due to age. I dont really know. But these are the same problems Ducks fans lamented back when he was traded. He never really seemed to take the next step save for relatively short periods of time, highlighted by his 18-19 season.

As a fan I wouldnt worry too much about any of it except for the last thing you mentioned which is that he has failed to bring his best when it means most. With the state of the team the stakes are only going to get higher over the next few seasons.

Dubas has spoken about being steadfast with your decisions but also being comfortable making big moves when required, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[GQS]

You've convinced me. Hellybuck is better than Andersen and we'd be better off with a Vezina winner in net. Time to contact the media.

The point I was making is that WE KNOW that Andersen isn't the solution and that rather than continue to do the same thing over and over again and getting the same results, its time to change things up and go in a new direction. I mean how many more chances can we give Freddie before we finally admit that he isn't the answer? I guess this coming playoffs might be the final time and if he does poorly then he's definitely gone, but if he does well I hope the Leafs don't make the mistake in resigning him and instead let him walk.

Its interesting how some people can be ready to give Andersen neverending chances to succeed and yet with a guy like Holl who's had a few less than stellar games recently, some fans can go from loving him to back to not believing in him and even wanting to get rid of him.

If I were in Dubas' shoes I'd rather just give Campbell a good run of starts and see if he can grab the job decisively. In most games that he's played as a Leaf, I've felt a sense of calmness and stability from him where the team in front of him can feel like if they mess up that it won't always have a good chance of ending up in the back of the net. Andersen hasn't ever provided that kind of stability consistently and we need to have a goalie that does.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The point I was making is that WE KNOW that Andersen isn't the solution and that rather than continue to do the same thing over and over again and getting the same results, its time to change things up and go in a new direction. I mean how many more chances can we give Freddie before we finally admit that he isn't the answer? I guess this coming playoffs might be the final time and if he does poorly then he's definitely gone, but if he does well I hope the Leafs don't make the mistake in resigning him and instead let him walk.

Its interesting how some people can be ready to give Andersen neverending chances to succeed and yet with a guy like Holl who's had a few less than stellar games recently, some fans can go from loving him to back to not believing in him and even wanting to get rid of him.

If I were in Dubas' shoes I'd rather just give Campbell a good run of starts and see if he can grab the job decisively. In most games that he's played as a Leaf, I've felt a sense of calmness and stability from him where the team in front of him can feel like if they mess up that it won't always have a good chance of ending up in the back of the net. Andersen hasn't ever provided that kind of stability consistently and we need to have a goalie that does.

I think we're all agreed that we'd like a new goalie. I just don't see the point of saying the same thing over and over again and bashing the guy for every goal he gives up, even the ones that even Hasek couldn't stop most of the time. It's not Andersen's fault he's not Vezina caliber but he's our guy so what's the point of bashing him? He was good in the last playoffs, maybe he can be again. I'm just tired of the "we'll never win a series with Andersieve" crap, it's just nonsense and it got old a long time ago.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I think we're all agreed that we'd like a new goalie. I just don't see the point of saying the same thing over and over again and bashing the guy for every goal he gives up, even the ones that even Hasek couldn't stop most of the time. It's not Andersen's fault he's not Vezina caliber but he's our guy so what's the point of bashing him? He was good in the last playoffs, maybe he can be again. I'm just tired of the "we'll never win a series with Andersieve" crap, it's just nonsense and it got old a long time ago.

CLB has very little skill upfront but they work hard and get pedestrian shots so Freddy would have a higher save % vs them - normal and expected. But he let in 3 massive softies which cost team 2 games in a 5 game series. He struggles with concentration with no shots for large stretches. He would do well on Canes who have a big fast and nasty defense and don't give up killer chances. Maybe we could swop for Reims back+their 2022 1st rounder. It could help both teams. Reims has his issues too don't get me wrong but he does not have SOFTIE problems.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Sportsnet's not afraid to say it like it is.

NHL Power Rankings: Team in a Tweet Edition

 

[Doublerum1975]

Anderson plays scared you can see it it’s like he’s waiting for himself to make a mistake

 

[MattySnipes]

Sportsnet's not afraid to say it like it is.

NHL Power Rankings: Team in a Tweet Edition

Funny to see both him and Gibson on top each other. Both former Ducks goalies at one time.

 

[meefer]

Some stats, from Natural Stat Trick

5v5 (of goalies with at least 500 5v5 minutes this year - 36 goalies)

• Andersen's SV% is actually strong 5v5, 92.7%, 9th of 36 goalies
• In terms of "expected SV%" (what an average goalie would do with the shot quality he's faced), he's basically the same - his expected SV% is 92.3%, so he's +0.4% better than expected, which puts him 8th of 36 goalies in terms of actual - expected. For reference Vasi is #1 at +2.6%, Matt Murray last at -3.5%

4v5 PK (of goalies with at least 50 4v5 minutes this year - 38 goalies)

• Andersen's SV% is pretty weak 4v5, 81.7%, 30th of 38 goalies
• In terms of "expected SV%" (what an average goalie would do with the shot quality he's faced), he's similarly bad - his expected SV% is 89.5%, so he's -7.8% worse than expected, 31st of 36 goalies in terms of actual - expected. For reference Fleury is #1 at +6.7%, Saros last at -11.3%

So yeah, the stats suggest he's been a decently above average starter 5v5, top 8-9ish in the league, but very weak on the PK, basically not starter quality at all, ~30-31st on the PK. He's getting lit up hard enough on the PK to make him a well below average starter overall, despite being solid at ES.

I think the underlying thing there is that he's a big, positional, "let the puck hit me" type goalie, who's great at stopping easy-to-average shots, but weak at the high danger shots, where really aggressive, athletic goalies tend to shine. Even strength is mostly easy-to-average shots, so he does well, but PKs are full of high danger shots, where he gets lit up.

To maximize his performance this year, the coaching staff should focus on the PK. Figure out what kind of chances he's good/bad at, work towards a PK scheme that allows the chances/shots he's decent at stopping, and works like hell to disallow the types of chances he sucks at. If we can find a way to get even average PK performance out of Freddy, he'll be acceptable for this year, as he's playing fine at ES. Freddy is the main reason we've got a below average PK this year, and his skillset isn't going to magically improve at his age, so we need to find a way to tweak what kind of chances we allow on the PK to get the most out of him.

I don't think we should re-sign him - he was very good his first 3 seasons with us, but he's been trending down significantly the last 2 years, and will be 32 at the start of next season. It's not a good time to make a bet on him. However, I do think we should ride out the season with him, and try to get the best out of him, which mostly means figuring out a way to make our PK work with Andy in net.

Papetti with Maple Leaf hot stove looks at those numbers and offers some ideas as to why they are what they are. Toronto Maple Leafs Musings: In defense of Frederik Andersen

 

[Not My Tempo]

Here are the hockey viz heat maps the last 3 years:

20-21:

19-20:

18-19:

The immediate thing that sticks out to me if we defend the slot much better, but allow shots from the point at a greater rate. I'd like to see how many deflection goals we've allowed this year vs years past because it feels like more. Maybe we limit shots in "high danger" areas at a good enough rate that teams are forced to go for the point shot + deflection style of play against us?

 

[Randy Randerson]

So the more I think about it, the more I dread the idea of going back to a scenario where we don't have a real starter. Despite the recent streak of being "out-goaltended", I like our current scenario, and I don't really buy into the idea that a goalie is playing head to head against the other team's goalie because teams are built differently and ours is solid everywhere.

What do we think the number is for Andersen to re-sign....like a Markstrom deal, closer to a Lehner, or even like a Jake Allen? If we could get Andersen back for the same cap hit on a 2-4 year deal I really don't hate that idea. Injuries notwithstanding, I think Andersen will age well because he doesn't really count on moving a lot to be good, just solid positional goaltending and using his bulk.

Ultimately developing a home grown 15-year vezina type starter should be the goal, but we aren't there yet and I think we need a little more runway while not having a really important position turn into a weakness after we finally got all of the parts working together.