Tribute Timothy Liljegren part 2

[Nineteen67]

i said it for yewrs now and i still think the same thing than 2 years ago.

for me liljegren is a d with no savor.
he okay defensively but not enough to play a shutdown role and have a real impact ( like benoit exemple)

offensively can make some little thing but his lack of hockey QI make it hard to really gaving a real impact in that part of the game.

he dont have any huge weakness but at the same time he don't have any big strenght. So why i call it a no savor D...thats why i dont think liljegren will become one day anything else than a 3rd pair dman

Most (non-Leafs’) analyst I’ve heard or read projected him as a bottom pair guy. He’s a little better than I thought he’d be.

 

[thusk]

No savor D? What does that mean?

he can do everything but excel in anything...he dont have any part of his game we can say, we will exploit this part to get the best of him ( Benoit is a good exemple)

In my mind, hes a little better version of Travis Dermott.

Most (non-Leafs’) analyst I’ve heard or read projected him as a bottom pair guy. He’s a little better than I thought he’d be.

exactly for me Liljegren had been the most overrated leafs player easily last 5 years.

 

[Malachi Crunch]

offensively can make some little thing but his lack of hockey QI make it hard to really gaving a real impact in that part of the game.

 

[Clyde Brewer]

Lily got no help from Gio last night either, Gio was really bad in his own end.

Lily does seem to get pressured easily in his own end, and he ends up trying to desperately shoot the puck off the boards. He needs to develop more composure there and make cleaner plays.

He also really needs to show more strength and aggression along the boards. His coverage is decent in front of the net - not great, but decent. Again, this would benefit from a little more nastiness in his game.

I don't think he has good offensive aspects. He is a strong skater and skates well with the puck. He has good vision and a good shot and is under rated on how he gets open for a shot, he just rarely receives the pass. He also seems to time his pinches well and doesn't shoot into shin pads.

 

[IPS]

His development was bricked. The Lilly we saw 2 years ago play with Gio when we first acquired Gio at the deadline was a far better version of the Lilly we're getting today. Everybody swore he was going to be a quality top-4 guy or even top pair but he's barely treading water in the league now.

This organization's incompetence with drafting and developing D is truly something to behold.

 

[DarkKnight]

"Sides" are the domain of the less sophisticated. I'm not against Lil, never have been. What I've noticed, he's plateaued, you could actually argue his best hockey was two years ago. He's 25 in a few weeks, it is a bit disappointing to see no real progression in his game, some good, some bad. I am 100 percent not giving up on him, sometimes it just clicks, but his IQ is a concern under pressure, he doesn't seem to handle that well, which makes me question his suitability in a top four atm.

Things change, he isn't "dead to me", but it is concerning the same things appear in his game. Also, I will not be cheering for Benoit to now fail because of Lil, that's just messed up.

 

[ponder]

Agreed this year has been a step back compared to his previous couple years. IMO it just looks like he’s playing with less confidence with the puck - too often dumping it up the boards vs. trying to make a better breakout play, or overthinking when he does try to make a play and screwing up/turning it over. It doesn’t look like he’s out there playing loose, instinctive hockey, looks like he’s really in his own head too much.

If he can start playing with more confidence again, more instinctively, I think he’s a legit 2nd pairing dman. But at the moment he’s more bottom pairing.

I also think some of his weaknesses have been exposed a bit by Gio’s decline. He’s played primarily with Gio for a few years now, and Gio has declined quite a lot vs. 2 years ago. This means Lily is trying to pick up the slack, trying to carry the pairing, and that’s a dangerous combo when paired with a dip in confidence.

He’s only 24, and he’s not far from being a quality 2nd pairing dman. I like his chances to get to that level at some point, even if his play this season has been a bit rough.

 

[MarMarSab3]

Agreed this year has been a step back compared to his previous couple years. IMO it just looks like he’s playing with less confidence with the puck - too often dumping it up the boards vs. trying to make a better breakout play, or overthinking when he does try to make a play and screwing up/turning it over. It doesn’t look like he’s out there playing loose, instinctive hockey, looks like he’s really in his own head too much.

If he can start playing with more confidence again, more instinctively, I think he’s a legit 2nd pairing dman. But at the moment he’s more bottom pairing.

I also think some of his weaknesses have been exposed a bit by Gio’s decline. He’s played primarily with Gio for a few years now, and Gio has declined quite a lot vs. 2 years ago. This means Lily is trying to pick up the slack, trying to carry the pairing, and that’s a dangerous combo when paired with a dip in confidence.

He’s only 24, and he’s not far from being a quality 2nd pairing dman. I like his chances to get to that level at some point, even if his play this season has been a bit rough.

He was having a very good start to the season, I think that Marchand cheap shot got in his head hence the desire to get rid of the puck anytime hes near the boards

 

[Nineteen67]

View attachment 816298

I wish I could communicate in multiple languages.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I think that Lil is an NHL defenceman, but never a top 4. Unless your roster has no depth he plays higher, but TOR needs to find someone more serviceable in the top 4. Just not Lil.

 

[PanniniClaus]

I think that says a lot about advanced stats. Advanced stats also tried to sell us the story Benoit wasn't an NHL dman.

Maybe so - but somewhere in the middle is the truth. Lilly is not our worst D.

 

[hamzarocks]

D+7 year and he isnt a top 3 or 4D yet.

We cant develop d-man for shit

Schenn Version1
Stuart Percy
Travis Dermott
Rasmus Sandin
Timothy Lilijgrem *pending but has not been the player we thought he would be.

That doesnt include fringe prospects like Kral, Jesse Blecker,etc who we cpuldnt even get to be consistent NHL d-man

 

[ACC1224]

D+7 year and he isnt a top 3 or 4D yet.

We cant develop d-man for shit

Schenn Version1
Stuart Percy
Travis Dermott
Rasmus Sandin
Timothy Lilijgrem *pending but has not been the player we thought he would be.

That doesnt include fringe prospects like Kral, Jesse Blecker,etc who we cpuldnt even get to be consistent NHL d-man

Is it they can't develop or the player just isn't that good to begin with?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I ain't givin up on Lily just yet .. he is coming off injury and he is playing with Gio a lot .. Gio is washed .. he can't keep up anymore and it affects your partners play .. i know this sounds like excuses but his development was quite impressive past 4 years .. D men don't develop linearly .. all in all he has been a huge disappointment this season .. by next year Tre will change up this D core with at least 3 new guys and we will see how Lily does next year .. this year is done for him

 

[hamzarocks]

Is it they can't develop or the player just isn't that good to begin with?

How are all our guys not good enough

They were all promising at the AHL level.

NHL transition they had solid starts but then didnt become what we expected

Dermott 2018 looked super promising
Sandin 2020 same
Lilijgren 2022

WE were able to squeeze out production and value with our forwards

HYman
Brown
Kap
AJ
Engvall

For some reason cant do the same with d-man

 

[fahad203]

D+7 year and he isnt a top 3 or 4D yet.

We cant develop d-man for shit

Schenn Version1
Stuart Percy
Travis Dermott
Rasmus Sandin
Timothy Lilijgrem *pending but has not been the player we thought he would be.

That doesnt include fringe prospects like Kral, Jesse Blecker,etc who we cpuldnt even get to be consistent NHL d-man

When you draft D's that can't skate, you are not doing yourself any favors.
None of these D were going to be high end D

Even when we drafted Schenn, he was never going to be a top pairing guy. Maybe a secondary support like Ken Daneyko type of D

Some were comparing him to Scott Stevens. He was never going to be Stevens. Stevens is remembered for his hitting, people forget Stevens was a offensive powerhouse in his younger days.

Timothy fell in the draft for a reason. Most scouts saw his game was a bit overhyped. We drafted him because we took a chance.

Dont' get me started with Stuart Percy. We drafted down to draft Dermott when we could have drafted Knockney in his spot and right before Aho went on that draft

I should add also. There was a lot of hope in Andrew Nielsen. Looked really promising


Wasted opportunities with all these draft picks

 

[ACC1224]

How are all our guys not good enough

They were all promising at the AHL level.

NHL transition they had solid starts but then didnt become what we expected

Dermott 2018 looked super promising
Sandin 2020 same
Lilijgren 2022

WE were able to squeeze out production and value with our forwards

HYman
Brown
Kap
AJ
Engvall

For some reason cant do the same with d-man

Not sure, it certainly is a trend though

 

[cgc83]

Lets not blame Giordano for Liljegren being a mediocre at best defensemen

 

[Namikaze Minato]

It never ceases to amaze me how fast leafs fans turn on their young players.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

It never ceases to amaze me how fast leafs fans turn on their young players.

I don't think many have given up on him, I certainly haven't. But we have to be honest, he hasn't been very good this season, particularly after the injury. Next season he may bounce back and be that #3-4 we all hoped he would be. But let's not diminish the pleasant surprise that Benoit has been. He rarely makes mistakes, and when he does, he seems to recover. He's tough, physical, and stands up for his team mates (he tried to nail Marchment for what he did to McCabe). I admire that in a #5-6 dman who we didn't expect much from.

 

[Knies iT]

Liljegren has had two important developmental seasons at the NHL level stunted by untimely injuries. First a hernia surgery before the start of main camp and now a high ankle sprain early in this season.

I think he’s a #5 today who settles in as a definitive #4. Likely won’t be the #3D caliber that he showed potential to be in his final seasons with the Marlies.

On the one hand, the player has to force the coaches hand with his play. Lilj has been paired with guys like Muzzin, Gio, McCabe, Rielly, etc for stretches. On the other hand, Keefe is a master at stagnating development. If we don’t get him out of here Knies will be added to the list I have no doubt.

 

[Stephen]

There’s no real pressure point with Liljegren here. He’s plateauing developmentally at the moment but doesn’t cost a lot, is up for renewal and probably due a very modest contract. Has good tools and shows flashes. Most importantly, you don’t have better options at the moment.

He could blossom a la Stralman or Forsling if we give up on him too soon so there’s risk in doing something. Or maybe he starts growing again and we could see him into a Rasmus Andersson lite. If the right deal comes along maybe you just take the asset and get closer to what you really need/want. If he regresses maybe you just pull the plug at some later date.

I don’t see a dramatic problem here.

 

[Judas Tavares]

There’s no real pressure point with Liljegren here. He’s plateauing developmentally at the moment but doesn’t cost a lot, is up for renewal and probably due a very modest contract. Has good tools and shows flashes. Most importantly, you don’t have better options at the moment.

He could blossom a la Stralman or Forsling if we give up on him too soon so there’s risk in doing something. Or maybe he starts growing again and we could see him into a Rasmus Andersson lite. If the right deal comes along maybe you just take the asset and get closer to what you really need/want. If he regresses maybe you just pull the plug at some later date.

I don’t see a dramatic problem here.

Agreed. Maybe he isn't reaching the potential we had hoped, but he's still serviceable, young and cheap. There are far bigger concerns on the roster than Liljegren. Put him in the proper position in which he can succeed and surround him properly, he will give what is needed based on age and price.

 

[weems]

Not trying to make excuses for our lack of developing defencemen but it isn't easy playing that position in our market.

Every turnover or bad mistake gets magnified 100 times and it can eat at some players if they're not good at blocking out the noise.

If that player makes the same mistake in say Arizona or Nashville or Seattle, not many people actually care that much or would spend much time talking about the play.

Lilly has been a very up and down player. He's had stretchs where he's played great and looked like a steady top 4 D who can do a bit of everything but then also had stretchs where he looked like a broken player with no confidence. It seems like his confidence and calmness to the game really wavers and when things are going well they go extremely well but when he hits a bad patch he becomes a very unstable defencemen.

 

[Stephen]

Agreed. Maybe he isn't reaching the potential we had hoped, but he's still serviceable, young and cheap. There are far bigger concerns on the roster than Liljegren. Put him in the proper position in which he can succeed and surround him properly, he will give what is needed based on age and price.

Yeah maybe you just get a stud LHD and throw Lily on the RHD role as the junior sidekick. Maybe he’s just a low end 4, borderline 5 but you’re playing him with another 1 or a high end 2.