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The Truth about Phil Kessel

  • Thread starter Thread starter Thebolt*
  • Start date Start date
Signed said:
Kessel is going to end up just like Dany Heatly, Mike Richards , Thomas Vanek and others . Its just of matter of when.

So, realisitically, he will be worth a player making 8 mil for 3 more years. 28,29,30. After that he will have negative value compared to his salary. How does a contending team deal with cap hell?

They trade at a discount or put players on waivers.
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So you obviously don't support re-signing Stamkos long-term. I mean how can you possibly sign a player long-term at 27 years old? He's going to decline 3 years in, better just let him walk now.

And my god Claude Giroux? Getzlaf? Perry? Crosby? Malkin? Who was dumb enough to sign these guys so late into their career? Who's the moron who paid the Sedins a 4 year contract at the age of 34?
 
NiL8r87 said:
So you obviously don't support re-signing Stamkos long-term. I mean how can you possibly sign a player long-term at 27 years old? He's going to decline 3 years in, better just let him walk now.

And my god Claude Giroux? Getzlaf? Perry? Crosby? Malkin? Who was dumb enough to sign these guys so late into their career? Who's the moron who paid the Sedins a 4 year contract at the age of 34?
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LOL

Wow, that poster just got OWNED.

Perfect post though. Kessel is in the same tier as all those other players. 30/30 teams would gladly have Kessel signed long term
 
NiL8r87 said:
So you obviously don't support re-signing Stamkos long-term. I mean how can you possibly sign a player long-term at 27 years old? He's going to decline 3 years in, better just let him walk now.

And my god Claude Giroux? Getzlaf? Perry? Crosby? Malkin? Who was dumb enough to sign these guys so late into their career? Who's the moron who paid the Sedins a 4 year contract at the age of 34?
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if they were all fat like Kessel , i wouldn't support signing them either
 
Mike203 said:
I don't want Kessel because he's not a player you win a SC with...

https://leafsdiary.wordpress.com/2015/05/21/maple-leafs-advanced-stats-series-phil-kessel/

I think your going to be disappointed with the return you get for Kessel
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This analysis lacks context. Ignoring the fact that his PDO was below average and that he averaged the worse on ice save % of any Leafs forwards, that his shooting % in the 2nd half was less than half of his career average, Randy Carlyle has historically had a huge negative impact on possession numbers (going back to Anaheim).

He's had a 49.5% career Corsi without Carlyle as his coach and something like 43% with him. That zone start % is used to discredit his play is ridiculous, 50% offensive zone starts is pretty bad for a guy who's supposed to be a top offensive option, Patrick Kane had a 67%(!!!!) offensive zone start % this year, which speaks to his team's ability to set up offensive situations for him compared to the leafs.

The article also points out that Kessel played with 2 other of the Leafs worst possession forwards. That doesn't necessarily mean that none of the 3 can play possession-based hockey, it simply means that together they're awful for each other.
 
This thread was actually nice to read for the most part, I think most people realize Kessel gets dumped on a little unfairly.

I think the Leafs should be alright when it comes to trading him, teams will make room for a 30 goal guy, especially if they can give him a good centre to play with or insulate him to cover for his weaknesses.
 
If Kessel didn't play on a team that had a big spotlight/big fanbase, his perception would be better around the leagues fans.

I think the continuous trade threads and general threads about Kessel has made other fanbases take a lower view of Kessels true value.
 
Kessel is not good! Confirmed by HFBoards.

The Leafs will only land a 1st round pick between 10-15 if they retain 4m. Even then he would be overpaid for how fat and lazy he is. Not to mention he's never produced more than 50 points in a season and could not even crack the weak American Olympic team. 0 playoff points should worry you as well.
 
NiL8r87 said:
I feel sorry for whatever team gets stuck with Byfuglien.
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i do as well , he's another player who will regress quickly due to lack of conditioning but at least Buff's game isn't based on speed and he also doesn't crap his panties at the slightest hint of contact
 
ShootIt said:
If Kessel didn't play on a team that had a big spotlight/big fanbase, his perception would be better around the leagues fans.

I think the continuous trade threads and general threads about Kessel has made other fanbases take a lower view of Kessels true value.
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the problem with Kessel isn't that he plays in Toronto or on a losing team

the problem is some of our fans believe other teams will be lining up to empty there prospect pools as well as hand us a top 10 first to acquire him and that's why you're getting a negative reaction from other teams fan bases
 
hotpaws said:
at least Buff's game isn't based on speed and he also doesn't crap his panties at the slightest hint of contact
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It's why Hall Gill was such a valued asset for so long. Especially in today's game, speed isn't very important.
 
Kessel and Byfuglien are both great skaters for their size, I doubt their skating sees any serious regression any time soon. Poor conditioning will likely have a much more adverse affect on their ability to stay healthy.
 
One-Dimensional speedy wingers do not age well. Has a pretty awful contract that goes into his mid-30s. Not rocket science why his value is pretty low compared to his current ability
 
Yeah, Kessel's a good player who gets undeserved flak. Still he got to get out of Toronto to rejuvenate his career.
 
SMantzas said:
One-Dimensional speedy wingers do not age well. Has a pretty awful contract that goes into his mid-30s. Not rocket science why his value is pretty low compared to his current ability
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True, if you look historically at players like Selanne,Mogilny, St. Louis for example, they became pretty useless as they aged. I expect Ovechkin and Kane to join that group shortly.
 
Thebolt said:
Let me just start by saying that I am not a fan of Kessel but I do have respect for how good he is. Ok so the past couple of months there have been large amounts of Phil Kessel proposols.Each one of them contain multiple responses such as "hes overpaid" "his conditioning is horrible" "hes bad defensively" "65 point winger". All of which are incorrect.
He does not have bad condioning, he tales a medication to treat for his cancer that he was diagnosed with in 2006. The side effects of his medication cause him to get fatter but not weigh more. Yes I understand he may not be making an effort to get slimmer but, to be that fast and rarely miss a game and for people to say he has bad conditioning is just insanely stupid. To be called 65 point winger is just stupid

You dont base a player by his worst season. Because the I guess Ovi is a 32 goal scorer and Kane is a 66 point winger, you could do that for everybody and the you compare him to your players best season is just the stupidest thing people on here do. I know he is bad defensively but if the Leafs got him a good center like Staal or Thornton one that could take pressure off Kessel he wouldnt nor would the Leafs be in this position. Kane is just as bad defensively as Kessel but he has the best defensive in the league and has either Hossa,Toews or Richards with him to back him up. There are so many good forwards that arent great defensively. Look at Ovi until Trotz came and guided him he was terrible defensively. Once Babcock works with Kessel he will have the same turnaround as Ovi.

I know its a lot to read but I just want people to stop underrating Kessels abilities. Hes one of the top players in the league and I bet you at least 20GMs are interested in acquiring him,the fans may not want him but they dont run the team. And the price that will be announced will certainly be more than what people are trying to propose. He is definitely worth a top prospect, top 10 draft pick and a good roster player.

I know im going to get ripped apart for this but for His value to acquire him its going to cost Lindholm + 5th overall + Semin + Liles if Carolina tbh. His value is definitely a lot more than 45th overall + Ferland + Poirer maybe if they add Bennett than it cpuld be close but no way

Edit: Thanks oheyithemsky for the advice
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People saying that he's bad defensively are right though. A coaching change isn't going to change that though. He'll just get his ice time reduced.

And one of the reasons he almost never misses a game is because he avoids contact like the plague.

Why would Carolina and Calgary, two rebuilding teams, gut their prospect depth to acquire a guy like Phil?
 
The Truth about Phil Kessel is that any team with him (and pays him $8M) is not a winner. He's an expensive secondary player. He belongs in Toronto. It's a perfect fit.
 
NiL8r87 said:
50% offensive zone starts is pretty bad for a guy who's supposed to be a top offensive option, Patrick Kane had a 67%(!!!!) offensive zone start % this year, which speaks to his team's ability to set up offensive situations for him compared to the leafs.
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Poor OZone starts can also means the Leafs as a team sucks. Good teams like the Hawks will start in that offensive zone more often and inflate all their players.

Face it - Kessel is overpaid (fact), declining (fact - due to age), a media lightning rod (fact) and a secondary player (fact - winger). Too many strikes.
 
voxel said:
Poor OZone starts can also means the Leafs as a team sucks. Good teams like the Hawks will start in that offensive zone more often and inflate all their players.

Face it - Kessel is overpaid (fact), declining (fact - due to age), a media lightning rod (fact) and a secondary player (fact - winger). Too many strikes.
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You do realize that helps the argument for Kessel right? That he doesn't benefit from a good team that sets him and his line up for success and Kane does?
 
NiL8r87 said:
True, if you look historically at players like Selanne,Mogilny, St. Louis for example, they became pretty useless as they aged. I expect Ovechkin and Kane to join that group shortly.
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St. Louis had insane lower body strength and was surrounded by Stamkos/Lecavalier in his later years.

Mogilny was out of the league at 35 and his last real productive season was at 32, then he was limited to 37 games the next year due to injuries (which crippled him)

Selanne was a freak of nature. Probably not the best comparison
 
NiL8r87 said:
You do realize that helps the argument for Kessel right? That he doesn't benefit from a good team that sets him and his line up for success and Kane does?
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You are misinformed. Where did I defend P.Kane? He's overpaid too, just not a media lightning rod and a whiner like Kessel.

That Hawks team revolves around Toews and Keith. If they built around Kane... they'd be Toronto or Edmonton.

P.Kane with his contract also has limited trade value. Not many teams would pay full-value.
 
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