The Truth about Phil Kessel

  • Thread starter Thread starter Thebolt*
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He needs a better team and a better center.

He's a top 5 offensive threat in the nhl, and this is coming from someone who wants him gone. He's scary every single time he touches the puck and he plays with tyler bozak who is barely a mediocre #3C
 
Let's call a spade a spade here. Phil Kessel is a talented player who has no leadership ability, has no backbone, has no compete level, has no defensive game and who quit playing this year.

This is a player who comes to camp out of shape, and does not put time in the gym. This is a player who has fought with more than one teammate, is pathetic with the press and has a tendency to sulk when things don't go his way.

I don't blame any hockey fan not wanting him on their team at all.

I thought he competed pretty hard head to head against the best defenseman in the league one legendary 7 game series.
 
Not sure if you mean getting on as in chemistry with teammates but if so that's wrong. Kessel has produced no matter who his line mates have been in Toronto example scoring 30 goals with Joey Crabb and Bozak.

If you meant to say get along with teammates your also wrong. Kessel is one of the most loved teammates in the locker room and has a lot of close bounds with the guys in the locker room. Very apparent if you watch the leafs HBO special.hes also got plenty of good friends from his Boston days. If you watch the handshake like from their series you can see players on that team liked him. He's also the only guy to speak up and protect his teammate and captain from the media. If you consider that bickering then I'm not sure what to tell you.

That may very well be; unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of variety in how he is/was perceived as a teammate.

The bad news here is that you have independent sources that cite having similar problems in dealing with Kessel. (Various amateur levels, Bruins) If nothing else its decent evidence that there is likely some truth behind their claims, and therefore something that cannot be ignored by any potential trade partner.

The other thing that ought to be taken into consideration is his indifferent play on the ice, which if you ask me is also demonstrative of a serious reluctance to do your part for the team.
 
Kessel is not a centerpiece to a winning team, he is a peripheral piece you bring in to push a great team over the top. Think Nathan Horton

If he isn't scoring, he gives you nothing
 
All this shows is TML sucked last year. In fact they sucked that last few years. Thats why they havent been in the playoffs.

No, it shows the TML were worse when Kessel was on the ice than when he was off the ice...

"When Phil Kessel is on the ice the Maple Leafs are -1.57 goals per 60 minutes worse than they are when he is off the ice. This represents one of the largest negative impacts to the Maple Leafs +/- that any Maple Leafs regular forward has made this season."

Hopefully you can sucker some team that's not big on analytics into a trade for what the OP was looking for but I think it's going to be hard.
 
He needs a better team and a better center.

He's a top 5 offensive threat in the nhl, and this is coming from someone who wants him gone. He's scary every single time he touches the puck and he plays with tyler bozak who is barely a mediocre #3C
too far. he's definitely not top 5. top 10 maybe
 
Coming from a Leafs fan, Kessel is an elite talent, but his play style lately is the very definition of selfish. He achieves individual success at the cost of team success. I think this is partly due to his linemates though, and the style of play that's been dictated by them. Back when he first joined the Leafs and played on Stajan's line he had a positive +/-, a respectable GA/60, and excellent possession numbers. His game only went to hell when Stajan was traded and Bozak took over. That pair has been more or less a fixture for 5.5 years now, with a series of (bad) coaches refusing to split them up for more than a couple games at a time.

The center on a line does a lot to dictate how the line plays, and Bozak is simply one of the worst possession players I've ever seen, and is incredibly mediocre at defending. He's been pilloried by the analytics community over the past year or two, and deservingly so, he's effectively a 3rd/4th line center who has a bit of offensive flair that makes him look better than he is. He's a much bigger reason for the line's defensive woes than Kessel due to the position he plays.

Anyway, point being ... Kessel is not worth as much as some Leafs fans make him out to be, especially when you consider his contract. Winning these days is as much about maximizing the value from your cap hit as it is about talent. On the other hand, he's not some average player just because he was a minus this year like some non-Leafs fans are making him out to be. He's pretty much an average 1st line RW. Possibly not top 10 in the league, but definitely in that 10-20 range for right wingers.
 
No, it shows the TML were worse when Kessel was on the ice than when he was off the ice...

"When Phil Kessel is on the ice the Maple Leafs are -1.57 goals per 60 minutes worse than they are when he is off the ice. This represents one of the largest negative impacts to the Maple Leafs +/- that any Maple Leafs regular forward has made this season."

Hopefully you can sucker some team that's not big on analytics into a trade for what the OP was looking for but I think it's going to be hard.

He's generally facing other teams equivalent of the Towes line, except he has Bozak. If he was in a more sheltered role like Kane, or at least had a secondary scoring threat to drive some attention away from him his numbers would look a lot better. Having NHL caliber D behind him consistently with an actual breakout plan would make a huge difference as well.

How do you expect a team not to get out shot if the D chips the puck off the glass 90% of the time?
 
I just love the statement that putting Kessel with Staal will somehow take the pressure off him and allow him to not be **** defensively. I hate to break this to you, but Staal's **** defensively as well.

Putting two players that can't find the defensive zone if you drew them a map together isn't suddenly going to make them Selke candidates. And that pressure you're talking about? That's called "Being a prominent hockey player in a Canadian city."
 
Players get labeled not by their worst season, but for a myriad of different reasons; Usually, the main being where fans/media see a player normally produce. Kessel seems to usually be a 30 goal scorer/65ish point offensive winger. While he's great offensively, there's a lot left to be desired about the rest of his game.

Kessel would work best being on a team that had pieces in place to make a solid run. I don't think he's a franchise player and I don't think he's go-to type of guy. He just doesn't have what it takes, both on and off the ice.

How does he seem to be a 30 goal/65ish point winger when this season was the first time he was below a pace of 80 points/34 goals a year over the last 4 seasons? Doesn't make sense.
 
:laugh:

You will have to admit that OP's statement "I'm not a fan of him" is very dubious when you read his outrage at any hint of critique of Kessel...

I hate Marchand with a fiery passion. Doesn't mean he isn't a good player.

People fall victim to the reputations that they acquire in their first few years in the league. Kessel will always be tagged a lazy, selfish player just like E Kane will always be immature, Seguin will always have off-ice issues with partying, and Ovie will always be a defensive scourge. It's hard to shake these reputations, especially when they become easy and convenient hot take talking points for people who aren't familiar with the player.
 
He needs a better team and a better center.

He's a top 5 offensive threat in the nhl, and this is coming from someone who wants him gone. He's scary every single time he touches the puck and he plays with tyler bozak who is barely a mediocre #3C

I agree;every single time he touches the puck in the D zone it gets scary
 
For kessel's value:

Just to help gauge Phil's value in terms of draft picks - recent trades that involved 1st round draft picks:

2015 draft:
1. PIT deal 2015 1st (16th overall) + Rob Klinkhammer to EDM for David Perron
2. NYI deal 2015 1st (21st overall) + Matt Moulson + 2015 2nd (37th overall) to BUF for Thomas Vanek
3. NSH deal 2015 1st (24th overall) + Brandon Leipsic + Olli Jokinen to TOR for Cody Franson and Mike Santorelli
4. a)STL deal 2015 1st (25th overall) + Halak + Stewart + Carrier + 2014 1st to BUF for Ryan Miller + Steve Ott + conditional 2nd/3rd picks
4. b) BUF deal 2015 1st (25th overall) + Tyler Myers + Drew Stafford + Joel Armia + Brendan Lemieux to WPG for Evander Kane + Zach Bogosian + Jason Kasdorf
5. NYR deal 2015 1st (28th) + 2014 1st + Ryan Callahan to TBL for Martin St. Louis + 2015 2nd
6. CHI deal 2015 1st (29th/30th) + Klas Dahlbeck for Antoine Vermette
7. TBL deal 2015 1st (29th/30th) + Radko Gudas for Braydon Coburn

2014 draft:

1. OTT deal 2014 1st (10th) + Jakob Silfverberg + Stefan Noesen to ANA for Bobby Ryan
2. ANA deal 2014 1st (24th) + Nick Bonino + Luca Sbisa + 2014 4th (85th) to VAN for Ryan Kesler + 2015 3rd

2013 draft:

1. NJD deal 2013 1st (9th) to VAN for Corey Schneider
2. MIN deal 2013 1st (16th) + 2014 2nd + Matt Hackett + Johan Larsson to BUF for Jason Pominville + 2014 4th
3. NYR deal 2013 1st (19th) + Artem Anisimov + Brandon Dubinsky + Tim Erixon to CBJ for Rick Nash + Steve Delisle + 2013 3rd
4. STL deal 2013 1st (22nd) + Reto Berra + Mark Cundari to CGY for Jay Bouwmeester
5. LAK deal 2013 1st (27th) + Jack Johnson to CBJ for Jeff Carter
6. PIT deal 2013 1st (28th) + Kenny Agostino + Ben Hanowski to CGY for Jarome Iginla
7. BOS deal 2013 1st (29th) + Lane McDermid + Cody Payne to DAL for Jaromir Jagr

2012 draft:
1. CAR deal 2012 1st (8th) + Brandon Sutter + Brian Dumoulin to PIT for Jordan Staal
2. COL deal 2012 1st (11th) + 2012/2013 2nd to WSH for Semyon Varlamov
3. NSH deal 2012 1st (21st) to BUF for Paul Gaustad

Other relevant trades involving 1st rounders:
2011:
1. CBJ deal 2011 1st (8th overall) + Jakub Voracek + 2011 3rd to PHI for Jeff Carter
2. WSH deal 2011 1st (26th overall) to CHI for Troy Brouwer
3. SJS deal 2011 1st (28th overall) + Devin Setoguchi + Charlie Coyle to MIN for Brent Burns + 2012 2nd

2010:
1. BOS deal 2010 1st (15th) + Dennis Wideman + 2011 3rd to FLA for Nathan Horton + Gregory Campbell
2. OTT deal 2010 1st (16th who ended up being Tarasenko, LOL) to STL for David Rundblad



The ones in bold are after the season's end or draft day deals
 
I agree;every single time he touches the puck in the D zone it gets scary

That is cherry picking for funny jokes to rag on a guy. His away from the puck and board work is horrendous.

However, I have seen plenty occasions where he picks it up in the Dzone and shoots up the wing. Dmen are usually sent spinning around on their heels trying to defend the quick transition.

I am no way trying to make light of his D shortcomings but to say he doesn't have poise when the puck is on his stick(no matter the zone) - Is completely wrong.
 

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