The Truth about Phil Kessel

[hotpaws]

St. Louis had insane lower body strength and was surrounded by Stamkos/Lecavalier in his later years.

Mogilny was out of the league at 35 and his last real productive season was at 32, then he was limited to 37 games the next year due to injuries (which crippled him)

Selanne was a freak of nature. Probably not the best comparison

St.Louis also busts his ass to keep him self in great shape .

 

[HarrisonFord]

St. Louis had insane lower body strength and was surrounded by Stamkos/Lecavalier in his later years.

Mogilny was out of the league at 35 and his last real productive season was at 32, then he was limited to 37 games the next year due to injuries (which crippled him)

Selanne was a freak of nature. Probably not the best comparison

Kessel hasn't missed a single game in 5 seasons, injuries will not be his downfall.

Also, fun fact - though it's a small sample size, Phil Kessel has the highest GPG in the playoffs of all players

 

[hotpaws]

Kessel hasn't missed a single game in 5 seasons, injuries will not be his downfall.

Also, fun fact - though it's a small sample size, Phil Kessel has the highest GPG in the playoffs of all players

avoiding injuries by being the softest player in the league isn't something to praise and it'll be his lack of conditioning that will be his downfall if he doesn't change his ways

9 years - 3 rounds

 

[RiceCooker]

Kessel hasn't missed a single game in 5 seasons, injuries will not be his downfall.

Also, fun fact - though it's a small sample size, Phil Kessel has the highest GPG in the playoffs of all players

Lol Lol Lol.....he's played one playoff round in 6 years as a Leaf, what a playoff Monster !!!

 

[NiL8r87]

St. Louis had insane lower body strength and was surrounded by Stamkos/Lecavalier in his later years.

Mogilny was out of the league at 35 and his last real productive season was at 32, then he was limited to 37 games the next year due to injuries (which crippled him)

Selanne was a freak of nature. Probably not the best comparison

So you're saying it's not about being a one-dimensional, speedy winger? It's a combination of genetics, work ethic and luck?

Maybe a guy who can skate with the best players in the world and put minimal effort into his offseason workouts (allegedly) is a freak of nature too.

My point is you can't lump every "one-dimensional, speedy winger" into the same box.

 

[NiL8r87]

You are misinformed. Where did I defend P.Kane? He's overpaid too, just not a media lightning rod and a whiner like Kessel.

That Hawks team revolves around Toews and Keith. If they built around Kane... they'd be Toronto or Edmonton.

P.Kane with his contract also has limited trade value. Not many teams would pay full-value.

I'd be quite shocked if the majority of posters in this thread came back and agreed with you on Kane.

 

[Man Rocket]

Let me just start by saying that I am not a fan of Kessel but I do have respect for how good he is. Ok so the past couple of months there have been large amounts of Phil Kessel proposols.Each one of them contain multiple responses such as "hes overpaid" "his conditioning is horrible" "hes bad defensively" "65 point winger". All of which are incorrect.
He does not have bad condioning, he tales a medication to treat for his cancer that he was diagnosed with in 2006. The side effects of his medication cause him to get fatter but not weigh more. Yes I understand he may not be making an effort to get slimmer but, to be that fast and rarely miss a game and for people to say he has bad conditioning is just insanely stupid. To be called 65 point winger is just stupid

You dont base a player by his worst season. Because the I guess Ovi is a 32 goal scorer and Kane is a 66 point winger, you could do that for everybody and the you compare him to your players best season is just the stupidest thing people on here do. I know he is bad defensively but if the Leafs got him a good center like Staal or Thornton one that could take pressure off Kessel he wouldnt nor would the Leafs be in this position. Kane is just as bad defensively as Kessel but he has the best defensive in the league and has either Hossa,Toews or Richards with him to back him up. There are so many good forwards that arent great defensively. Look at Ovi until Trotz came and guided him he was terrible defensively. Once Babcock works with Kessel he will have the same turnaround as Ovi.

I know its a lot to read but I just want people to stop underrating Kessels abilities. Hes one of the top players in the league and I bet you at least 20GMs are interested in acquiring him,the fans may not want him but they dont run the team. And the price that will be announced will certainly be more than what people are trying to propose. He is definitely worth a top prospect, top 10 draft pick and a good roster player.

I know im going to get ripped apart for this but for His value to acquire him its going to cost Lindholm + 5th overall + Semin + Liles if Carolina tbh. His value is definitely a lot more than 45th overall + Ferland + Poirer maybe if they add Bennett than it cpuld be close but no way

Edit: Thanks oheyithemsky for the advice

how is that even possible?

 

[Subbanned]

how is that even possible?

The medication Phil took will increase facial and neck fat deposition. I believe that is what the OP was referring to somewhat inaccurately as it would cause you to weigh more, but that edematous buildup creates the image that he is heavier than he is actually. To elaborate: if you pictured him without clothes he'd have higher deposition in his abdomen and craniofacial region due to his medication regimen, but none of the atrophic side effects that a person that naturally gained that weight would have.

Source: I'm a physician.

I think the "Kessel is fat" narrative is a hilarious one because you know Leafs haters will go for it easily. But the facts are irrefutable: this is a person that has performed near the league's elite for half a decade, has never missed a game, is one of the fastest players in the league, and regularly tops his club's fitness charts. He's a tremendous athlete that is in great condition. It's laughable that people willfully ignore this to drop the "LOL HE'S FAT" narrative.

Likely an indication that they have no real argument against Kessel as an elite producer.

 

[Gormo]

The medication Phil took will increase facial and neck fat deposition. I believe that is what the OP was referring to somewhat inaccurately as it would cause you to weigh more, but that edematous buildup creates the image that he is heavier than he is actually. To elaborate: if you pictured him without clothes he'd have higher deposition in his abdomen and craniofacial region due to his medication regimen, but none of the atrophic side effects that a person that naturally gained that weight would have.

Source: I'm a physician.

I think the "Kessel is fat" narrative is a hilarious one because you know Leafs haters will go for it easily. But the facts are irrefutable: this is a person that has performed near the league's elite for half a decade, has never missed a game, is one of the fastest players in the league, and regularly tops his club's fitness charts. He's a tremendous athlete that is in great condition. It's laughable that people willfully ignore this to drop the "LOL HE'S FAT" narrative.

Likely an indication that they have no real argument against Kessel as an elite producer.

Is he somehow still taking that medication, or are the side effects somehow permanent?

Neither seems all that plausible to me.

 

[Gio4PM]

So his lackadaisical play isn't because of fitness? What a relief.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

This analysis lacks context. Ignoring the fact that his PDO was below average and that he averaged the worse on ice save % of any Leafs forwards, that his shooting % in the 2nd half was less than half of his career average, Randy Carlyle has historically had a huge negative impact on possession numbers (going back to Anaheim).

He's had a 49.5% career Corsi without Carlyle as his coach and something like 43% with him. That zone start % is used to discredit his play is ridiculous, 50% offensive zone starts is pretty bad for a guy who's supposed to be a top offensive option, Patrick Kane had a 67%(!!!!) offensive zone start % this year, which speaks to his team's ability to set up offensive situations for him compared to the leafs.

The article also points out that Kessel played with 2 other of the Leafs worst possession forwards. That doesn't necessarily mean that none of the 3 can play possession-based hockey, it simply means that together they're awful for each other.

It does tell me that Kessel is probably not an elite forward in the sense that he makes his line mates better. He's a complimentary player who needs to be surrounded by player(s) who make him better. He also is a defensive liability and does not drive possession. All these things make him less valuable in spite of his elite scoring ability. The question is, how much value does he lose because of his liabilities?

 

[NiL8r87]

It does tell me that Kessel is probably not an elite forward in the sense that he makes his line mates better. He's a complimentary player who needs to be surrounded by player(s) who make him better. He also is a defensive liability and does not drive possession. All these things make him less valuable in spite of his elite scoring ability. The question is, how much value does he lose because of his liabilities?

That's just simply not true. You need to rely on the eye test a little more, he's been an offense generator for himself and his linemates his whole career. Does he drive possession? Safe to say, no. But that doesn't mean he can't play capably in a system that doesn't rely on an odd-man rush, that doesn't mean he can't be an offensive catalyst, the guy's a master on the powerplay and his creativity in general is quite underrated. His time away from Randy Carlyle proves that he's capable of playing at a competent level of possession. And even though it was such a small sample size, I'm going to cite it anyway because of his quality of competition, but the Olympics proves that as well. His line with JVR/Pavelski was the only positive possession line for the US in the Canada game.

 

[Future]

I don't know where people are getting Kessel is inconsistent from. Maybe 4 years ago, but he's one of the most consistent offensive producers in the league now. Yeah he can sometimes score in bunches, but that isn't much different than anyone else and he can't score every game. Night in night out he creates chances and gets opportunities to score.

Kessel is a top player in the league. Everyone that actually watches him knows that. Would drastically improve any team and was a big reason why the Leafs even came close to competing for a playoff spot at times. Can carry an offense by himself.

Don't understand why he has a reputation of being a trainwreck defensively. He's not much different than Kane or any other elite offensive winger. People just tend to pick and choose who they want to bash.

 

[seguino]

Hate the Leafs but Kessel is an allstar forward. (insert "deal with it" meme)

 

[FamilyGuy716]

That's just simply not true. You need to rely on the eye test a little more, he's been an offense generator for himself and his linemates his whole career. Does he drive possession? Safe to say, no. But that doesn't mean he can't play capably in a system that doesn't rely on an odd-man rush, that doesn't mean he can't be an offensive catalyst, the guy's a master on the powerplay and his creativity in general is quite underrated. His time away from Randy Carlyle proves that he's capable of playing at a competent level of possession. And even though it was such a small sample size, I'm going to cite it anyway because of his quality of competition, but the Olympics proves that as well. His line with JVR/Pavelski was the only positive possession line for the US in the Canada game.

I agree that Kessel is an elite offensive player. I don't agree that he's an elite player. It kind of reminds my of Vanek. Hopefully you can get a trade like the Sabres got for him with the NYI but I think that's going to be tough. Analytics are much bigger in the league than they were a few years ago but you only need 1 team who really loves Kessel to get a good deal.

 

[12345678910]

Phil's conditioning isn't his downfall. He routinely test among tops on the leafs for conditioning test. He just packed it when it went south this year. He's naturally a quick twitch guy and is able to provide very explosive bursts. He's tired when he gets back to the bench, but he's generally good to go come next shift.

 

[stealth1]

Phil's conditioning isn't his downfall. He routinely test among tops on the leafs for conditioning test. He just packed it when it went south this year. He's naturally a quick twitch guy and is able to provide very explosive bursts. He's tired when he gets back to the bench, but he's generally good to go come next shift.

The bolded is why if I was a GM I wouldn't give up a 1st this year and a prospect for him. Yes he is a good player and great goal scorer but why would I want a guy on my team who gives up when things aren't going his way. Cause you don't agree with a new coach doesn't mean you give up.

 

[BruinsBtn]

He's a 55-60 point player over his past 100 games.

That's the truth.

 

[Stu]

The bolded is why if I was a GM I wouldn't give up a 1st this year and a prospect for him. Yes he is a good player and great goal scorer but why would I want a guy on my team who gives up when things aren't going his way. Cause you don't agree with a new coach doesn't mean you give up.

You cannot be serious? Coaching is so crucial in professional sports - Horacek was in completely over his head and the entire team just flopped. Saying someone 'gave up' is honestly just using hyperbole to prove a point. Not to mention, a good coach would believe in themselves to get the best out of the players they have at their disposal and Kessel's history suggest he is incredibly capable in the NHL. His goals, points, playmaking ability speaks for themselves and honestly his defensive shortcomings are being blown out of proportion here just like in every thread.

The fat, lazy, out of shape, 'on the decline' BS is just hilarious - it just goes to show that people using those arguments either don't have anything of relevance to say or they are just posting for the sake of getting their jollies by bashing the Leafs, it's honestly embarrassing.

The rational part of our fanbase isn't expecting the earth in a return for Kessel, a 1st, an additional pick, good prospect and a dump has been pretty well established as a reasonable return.

 

[Thebolt*]

if they were all fat like Kessel , i wouldn't support signing them either

His weight is pretty average. He only weighs a bit over 200

 

[DFC]

The medication Phil took will increase facial and neck fat deposition. I believe that is what the OP was referring to somewhat inaccurately as it would cause you to weigh more, but that edematous buildup creates the image that he is heavier than he is actually. To elaborate: if you pictured him without clothes he'd have higher deposition in his abdomen and craniofacial region due to his medication regimen, but none of the atrophic side effects that a person that naturally gained that weight would have.

Source: I'm a physician.

I think the "Kessel is fat" narrative is a hilarious one because you know Leafs haters will go for it easily. But the facts are irrefutable: this is a person that has performed near the league's elite for half a decade, has never missed a game, is one of the fastest players in the league, and regularly tops his club's fitness charts. He's a tremendous athlete that is in great condition. It's laughable that people willfully ignore this to drop the "LOL HE'S FAT" narrative.

Likely an indication that they have no real argument against Kessel as an elite producer.

Has it ever been made public exactly what medication Phil was/is on? Because, given the Leaf frenzy in Toronto, if medication was actually the reason for his weight issue, I assume it would have been picked up a million times over.

The much more likely scenario is Phil is a freak athlete who, much like athletes of the 80s, can get by without putting in a lot work. For now.

 

[Thebolt*]

Is he somehow still taking that medication, or are the side effects somehow permanent?

Neither seems all that plausible to me.

I beleive that they are permanent.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Is he somehow still taking that medication, or are the side effects somehow permanent?

Neither seems all that plausible to me.

Seems more plausible than him being a fat fast guy.

 

[Jerkini]

Phil Kessel is a Toronto Maple Leaf and that alone is grounds for getting smeared left and right by people who only watch him play when their favorite team is playing the Leafs. They take the negative comments by people with agendas and regurgitate them over and over like it's a fact.

Phil Kessel is an elite goalscorer. And he's worth every penny of that $8m non-cap circumventing contract.

 

[Mickey Redmond*]

Kessel is going to hate Babcock.