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The Truth about Phil Kessel

  • Thread starter Thread starter Thebolt*
  • Start date Start date
Thebolt said:
Let me just start by saying that I am not a fan of Kessel but I do have respect for how good he is. Ok so the past couple of months there have been large amounts of Phil Kessel proposols.Each one of them contain multiple responses such as "hes overpaid" "his conditioning is horrible" "hes bad defensively" "65 point winger". All of which are incorrect.
He does not have bad condioning, he tales a medication to treat for his cancer that he was diagnosed with in 2006. The side effects of his medication cause him to get fatter but not weigh more. Yes I understand he may not be making an effort to get slimmer but, to be that fast and rarely miss a game and for people to say he has bad conditioning is just insanely stupid. To be called 65 point winger is just stupid

You dont base a player by his worst season. Because the I guess Ovi is a 32 goal scorer and Kane is a 66 point winger, you could do that for everybody and the you compare him to your players best season is just the stupidest thing people on here do. I know he is bad defensively but if the Leafs got him a good center like Staal or Thornton one that could take pressure off Kessel he wouldnt nor would the Leafs be in this position. Kane is just as bad defensively as Kessel but he has the best defensive in the league and has either Hossa,Toews or Richards with him to back him up. There are so many good forwards that arent great defensively. Look at Ovi until Trotz came and guided him he was terrible defensively. Once Babcock works with Kessel he will have the same turnaround as Ovi.
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If the bolded is true, I think the media/fan base should in Toronto should get off Kessel's ass a little bit. That's a very legitimate reason.
 
Kessel is a great player, but his contract, atttitude and the situation with it being very obvious that Toronto wants to move him makes his value decline from what it would be if those issues did not exist.
 
Soundwave said:
If the bolded is true, I think the media/fan base should in Toronto should get off Kessel's ass a little bit. That's a very legitimate reason.
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The Toronto media / fan base isn't really on his case that hard ,at least when it comes to conditioning or fitness.

It is mainly the armchair GMs on HFBoards who never watch him and just say "LOOK HOW FAT HE IS, HE IS OUT OF SHAPE"

He tested top three at our fall pre-season camp last year.
 
Kessel is a great hockey player while simultaneously a terrible person to have on your hockey team.
 
TOGuy14 said:
The Toronto media / fan base isn't really on his case that hard ,at least when it comes to conditioning or fitness.

It is mainly the armchair GMs on HFBoards who never watch him and just say "LOOK HOW FAT HE IS, HE IS OUT OF SHAPE"

He tested top three at our fall pre-season camp last year.
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I hear it a lot from the Toronto media.
 
Soundwave said:
If the bolded is true, I think the media/fan base should in Toronto should get off Kessel's ass a little bit. That's a very legitimate reason.
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Also in the fitniss test at the beginning of the year, he was top 3 in tests ahead of guys like Polak who is a fitness freak.
 
VeddarRants said:
For his career, Kessel averages out to 64 points a season.
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And Rick Nash 66pts/season
Corey Perry 68pts/season
Tyler Seguin 65pts/season
Max Pacioretty 58pts/season
Jamie Benn 69pts/season
Jeff Carter 60pts/season
Marian Gaborik 70pts/season
Vladimir Tarasenko 62pts/season

So around what the best in position average out at. Only Patrick Kane and Steven Stamkos really stand out from that crowd. And to contextualize those numbers, I gotta add that in his 1st two seasons he played with Joey Crabb and a fresh-out-of-college Tyler Bozak as his linemates. If we're talking offensive numbers, Phil Kessel is simply amongst the best today.
 
TOGuy14 said:
The Toronto media / fan base isn't really on his case that hard ,at least when it comes to conditioning or fitness.

It is mainly the armchair GMs on HFBoards who never watch him and just say "LOOK HOW FAT HE IS, HE IS OUT OF SHAPE"

He tested top three at our fall pre-season camp last year.
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I'd like to actually see these fitness results, because I see this statement pretty often.
 
TOGuy14 said:
What?

He just put in 61 points in his past 82 games (and that is probably his worst season ever)

Which truth is this exactly?
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He's probably a 20-30 point player if you look at his last 30 games as a Maple Leaf :laugh:

Some people use statistics the same way a drunk uses a lamppost, for support (of their initial biases) instead of illumination.
 
RedHot said:
I'd like to actually see these fitness results, because I see this statement pretty often.
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They don't exist. Some Leafs mouthpiece like Cox will tweet something vague and then it’s in the hf spin zone.
 
Gormo said:
Is he somehow still taking that medication, or are the side effects somehow permanent?

Neither seems all that plausible to me.
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Adipose cells never go away. This is more true when they are artificially edamatously inflamed (i.e. as opposed to natural weight gain), as is the case with the chemotherapeutic drugs that Phil received. Thus he will hold those extra areas of deposition (that, once again, do not have the concurrent atrophic effects that normal fat gain does) for the rest of his life.

Of course, the reason this myth is floating around in the first place is because layfolk will think about this and just say "I don't think that's plausible"..."the elite NHL player that is one of the fastest in his peer group and tops the fitness tests on his team is probably just fat, that's WAY more plausible".
 
DFC said:
Has it ever been made public exactly what medication Phil was/is on? Because, given the Leaf frenzy in Toronto, if medication was actually the reason for his weight issue, I assume it would have been picked up a million times over.

The much more likely scenario is Phil is a freak athlete who, much like athletes of the 80s, can get by without putting in a lot work. For now.
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Chemotherapeutic drugs that would be utilized in treating testicular cancer, regardless of the few main families of drug possibilities, share a common sequelae of edematous weight gain.

So yeah, the much more likely scenario is actually that the Toronto media has an easier time slagging him then poring over the documented and scientifically supported reasons for a slight increased deposition of facial fat. Also, it's easy to ignore the facts - one of, if not the, fastest skaters in the league. Tops fitness tests on his teams. Among a handful of elite scorers over the last decade.

But NO, the much more likely scenario is a narrative that I'll run with because I couldn't care less about facts. :shakehead
 
The Leafs do not release fitness tests .

Steve Spott who was our ass't coach at the time said he was amazed Kessel could skate so fast being 20lbs over weight . This caused a bit of an up roar and then Cox ( who most of the leaf homers despise before he became an employee ) made his tweet . No one corroborated his tweet and everyone pretty much realizes it was just damage control over Spott's comment .
 
After John Scott Kessel is the worst defensive player in the NHL. And to boot he will never take a hit to make a play. Any physical contact and Kessel is doing all he can to not get hit, even if it means giving away the puck. The truth is his offensive skills don't make up for the fact you are playing 5 on 4 in the defensive zone and the neutral zone.
 
hotpaws said:
The Leafs do not release fitness tests .

Steve Spott who was our ass't coach at the time said he was amazed Kessel could skate so fast being 20lbs over weight . This caused a bit of an up roar and then Cox ( who most of the leaf homers despise before he became an employee ) made his tweet . No one corroborated his tweet and everyone pretty much realizes it was just damage control over Spott's comment .
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Cox, who regularly slags the Leafs and their players, was attempting to do damage control for them?

Yeah, okay.

Nice try. Not even remotely believable.
 
Thebolt said:
You dont base a player by his worst season. Because the I guess Ovi is a 32 goal scorer and Kane is a 66 point winger, you could do that for everybody and the you compare him to your players best season is just the stupidest thing people on here do. I know he is bad defensively but if the Leafs got him a good center like Staal or Thornton one that could take pressure off Kessel he wouldnt nor would the Leafs be in this position. Kane is just as bad defensively as Kessel but he has the best defensive in the league and has either Hossa,Toews or Richards with him to back him up. There are so many good forwards that arent great defensively. Look at Ovi until Trotz came and guided him he was terrible defensively. Once Babcock works with Kessel he will have the same turnaround as Ovi.
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- Kane's worst NHL season occurred as he spent a year playing C ,, So How did Kessel play as a C for an entire NHL season?

- Kane gives an honest effort or tries to play D most nights so no he is nothing like Kessel who simply refuses to make any effort. Also anyone who lists Brad Richards as a defensive ace :laugh:

Kessel's refusal to play D and refusal to listen to his coaches who want more of him is major reason the Leafs are as bad as they are. Kane for comparison has never proven to be uncoachable nor ignore his coaches

They really aren't at all comparable players

Kane is a legit game breaker who has helped turn a franchise around. Kessel has done nothing but sink Leafs since arrival and this claim he has no talent around him his entire time in Toronto is just dishonest. Is it good enough to win a cup? Nope but the 2nd half collapses that Phil have been a part of are on players not coaching. When going gets tough Phil fades away

Kane has played years with revolving door of talent on his line such as Handzus , Shaw , Richards , Regin , etc at C and has yet to be unable to produce. Yet Kessel is in such an awful situation with Tyler Bozak a player who honestly is much better C then guys I listed

Kane is not comparable you are looking for with regard to Kane. Kessel is more a poor man's Zigmund Palffy
 
Blackhawkswincup said:
- Kane gives an honest effort or tries to play D most nights so no he is nothing like Kessel who simply refuses to make any effort. Also anyone who lists Brad Richards as a defensive ace :laugh:
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Patrick Kane is not a good defender. The guy is as guilty of playing on the perimeter as anyone in the league.
 
There's no way he gets that much. Kessel is a complementary player, and you don't spend that much on a player you're not even going to build around. Also remember Toronto wants to move him, so that alone lowers his value.
 
NiL8r87 said:
Patrick Kane is not a good defender. The guy is as guilty of playing on the perimeter as anyone in the league.
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Is this also the same logical sense that Kessel is the same player as Patrick Kane that gets around during comparisons?

Why trade Kessel? I mean, Kane isn't going anywhere and is the player that Chicago wants on their team.
 
ghostingtaro said:
Is this also the same logical sense that Kessel is the same player as Patrick Kane that gets around during comparisons?

Why trade Kessel? I mean, Kane isn't going anywhere and is the player that Chicago wants on their team.
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They're similar in the sense that they're both offensively-gifted wingers who aren't very great on the defensive end. Beyond that, one's named Patrick and one's named Phil. One has some body fat and the other doesn't. One isn't very good with the media and one is very particular about how much change he gets back when he pays for something. And one is an integral part of a well-formed core along with Jonathan Toews, Duncan Keith, Brett Seabrook, Brandan Saad and Corey Crawford with Brad Richards, Marian Hossa, Teuvo Teravainen, Antoine Vermette and other helping him out and the other one has the pleasure of being part of a core that includes Dion Phaneuf, JVR, Jonathan Bernier, Morgan Reilly and Nazem Kadri as the core with Tyler Bozak, Leo Komarov, Jake Gardiner, Joffrey Lupul (formerly) Cody Franson and Roman Polak helping him out.

Why trade him? Why do you think? Going by Shanny's estimation of 3-4 years of rebuilding, why waste Kessel for all those years instead of getting assets back for him to help the rebuild. I don't understand why people keep asking this question.
 
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