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The Truth about Phil Kessel

  • Thread starter Thread starter Thebolt*
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HarrisonFord said:
So how fast is this thread going to get ignored when Kessel gets traded and magically transforms back into what his actual elite value as a player is?
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Almost right away? Kessel is continually blamed for not being able to carry his team,hell he won best forward in the Olympics but since US didn't win gold that just wasn't good enough.

He's continually attacked for character issues when apart from being socially awkward he seems to actually be a pretty good team guy, that story about apologizing to Burke, going on that boat despite it making him sick, sticking up for his captain in the media.

Honestly it wouldn't be so bad is so many Leaf "fans" didn't like ripping apart everything about the team and being hyperbolic to illicit a reaction.
 
HarrisonFord said:
So how fast is this thread going to get ignored when Kessel gets traded and magically transforms back into what his actual elite value as a player is?
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I think most understand that, at the very least, Kessel is not being fully utilized in Toronto. He obviously isn't a 65 point player...he is a PPG player with a better primary/supporting cast.

Toronto fans want him out because he doesn't fit into the team and its future.

To be honest, this has been a long time coming. As someone who's been saying it since the guy was first traded to Toronto, the problem began with thinking you could build a team around a guy like Kessel and that was Burke's sell...not Kessel's.

It was also the fans fault for acquiescing to such a foolish strategy for so many years.

Glad I wasn't one of them...
 
leaffaninvictoria said:
Don't assume that HFBoards in any way comes close to reflecting the actual fan base, it doesn't. The demographics are quite skewed, it's just a very loud small minority.
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The Leafs (specifically their management and core players) have been getting dog-piled by their own fanbase at an unprecedented level after this disgrace of a season.

Radio, TV, print, social media, everywhere....

Despite what you may have others believe.
 
Bomber0104 said:
The Leafs (specifically their management and core players) have been getting dog-piled by their own fanbase at an unprecedented level after this disgrace of a season.

Radio, TV, print, social media, everywhere....

Despite what you may have others believe.
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I'm not having anyone believe anything HFBoards is in no way an accurate sample of hockey fans, for the most part the Leafs big shock this season was people stopped watching, they stopped watching because they were just bad, no argument there. They were so bad they stopped being entertaining well at least to Leaf fans I'm pretty sure other fan bases found it very entertaining.

What you aren't taking into account is most fans don't watch the NHL and think of it like GM mode on an NHL game, they watch hockey as an escape, they watch it at the bar with friends, they have people over for the game, they have a beer and unwind watching it on their own. They don't really care whose on the team they just want to be entertained.

So no piles of Leaf fans aren't wanting to run Kessel out of town, they just want to enjoy a game.
 
Stephen said:
The truth is Kessel wants to play the game his own way, which is an incredibly high skill, high speed, offensive minded game that sadly doesn't always jive with the way successful teams play. I think he's got pride in his game but he's also incredibly stubborn and unable to see the bigger team picture beyond out running and out gunning your troubles, which creates a vicious cycle of sloppy play.

I also think he tends to abuse his abundant natural gifts. He is naturally explosive but he doesn't put in the time or effort to up his conditioning, so he's basically a "deliver the payload" kind of guy who doesn't have the endurance or will to engage physically or win key puck battles.

At the end of the day, I'd rather see him go to another team and score 30 goals and 80 points his way and have the cap space and good future assets back than to risk him spiraling into oblivion and being a complete waste of cap for the next seven years. I don't care for the way he approaches the game.

Times up.
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That is fair. He doesn't like to have to adapt his game when opposing players manage to shut him down.

In today's league, it results in inconsistent performances since he is able to exploit many teams with his explosive offensive ability but gets totally shut down by other more competent defensive teams.

In today's league, Kessel's game is becoming less and less sustainable. He is not going to adapt to the changing conditions over the last few years, he will play the same way under different conditions and see his production continue to diminish. What do I mean? Well league powerplay opportunities are at all time lows and continuing to decrease, so he will see less and less "easy" production time on the powerplay. More clutch and grab steadily creeping back in will make it increasingly harder to exploit even the less competent defensive teams who are being allowed more simple interference, diminishing the effect of his speed 5-on-5.

A player putting up a 75 point season could result in a top 5 scoring finish next season lol. Is it fair to expect that from Kessel? I think he's more of a 65 point guy in today's NHL (which may be good enough for top 20 in scoring next year).
 
OP is pretty spot on.

Not even a big Kessel fan (I understand his time in Toronto is up) but the amount of hate this guy gets in his own city (never mind the rest of the league) is laughable.

People can't even distinguish their own silly opinions from fact anymore with Kessel, spewing nonsense about his conditioning, attitude and other nonsense that they generally have no way of knowing.

People are going to hate on this, but Kessel and Kane are pretty much identical players in the past few seasons (and all the stats support this). The difference? One plays on the best team in the league, the other plays on a first line with Tyler Bozak.
 
ToskalaRules said:
That is fair. He doesn't like to have to adapt his game when opposing players manage to shut him down.

In today's league, it results in inconsistent performances since he is able to exploit many teams with his explosive offensive ability but gets totally shut down by other more competent defensive teams.

In today's league, Kessel's game is becoming less and less sustainable. He is not going to adapt to the changing conditions over the last few years, he will play the same way under different conditions and see his production continue to diminish. What do I mean? Well league powerplay opportunities are at all time lows and continuing to decrease, so he will see less and less "easy" production time on the powerplay. More clutch and grab steadily creeping back in will make it increasingly harder to exploit even the less competent defensive teams who are being allowed more simple interference, diminishing the effect of his speed 5-on-5.

A player putting up a 75 point season could result in a top 5 scoring finish next season lol. Is it fair to expect that from Kessel? I think he's more of a 65 point guy in today's NHL (which may be good enough for top 20 in scoring next year).
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Kessel literally had to score 2 goals and like 10 points in 35 games (I didn't count, I just know his point totals were abysmal the second half of the year) to finish under 65 points this season. Absolutely nothing has changed from a season ago, the guy is a 75-80 point player right now.
 
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kessel's points dried up because he can't play a team game. horachek focused them away from a one and done head to the bench rush mentality.
 
ToskalaRules said:
That is fair. He doesn't like to have to adapt his game when opposing players manage to shut him down.

In today's league, it results in inconsistent performances since he is able to exploit many teams with his explosive offensive ability but gets totally shut down by other more competent defensive teams.

In today's league, Kessel's game is becoming less and less sustainable. He is not going to adapt to the changing conditions over the last few years, he will play the same way under different conditions and see his production continue to diminish. What do I mean? Well league powerplay opportunities are at all time lows and continuing to decrease, so he will see less and less "easy" production time on the powerplay. More clutch and grab steadily creeping back in will make it increasingly harder to exploit even the less competent defensive teams who are being allowed more simple interference, diminishing the effect of his speed 5-on-5.

A player putting up a 75 point season could result in a top 5 scoring finish next season lol. Is it fair to expect that from Kessel? I think he's more of a 65 point guy in today's NHL (which may be good enough for top 20 in scoring next year).
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More of a 65 point guy when he is one season removed from having three straight campaigns over which he was PPG?

LOL!

Never change HFBoards.
 
Signed said:
And he relies on his SPEED to create chances which is the very first thing a player loses slowly after age 30.

Why do you think Leaf fans -and I mean only Leaf fans- make trade proposals ad infinitum trying to unload the guy . And they claim its cuz they are 'rebuilding' .....even after they hire Mike Babcock they STILL insist they are 'rebuilding'.

What kind of suckers do they take the other GMs for ?
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Hiring a renowned coach - to an 8 year contract, no less - and rebuilding are mutually exclusive, apparently.

Fascinating.
 
BruinsBtn said:
He's a 55-60 point player over his past 100 games.

That's the truth.
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TOGuy14 said:
What?

He just put in 61 points in his past 82 games (and that is probably his worst season ever)

Which truth is this exactly?
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BruinsBtn said:
Now add in the other 18. And then find the sum and average it over 82.
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:laugh::laugh::laugh::handclap::handclap:

Signed said:
Why do you think Leaf fans -and I mean only Leaf fans- make trade proposals ad infinitum trying to unload the guy . And they claim its cuz they are 'rebuilding' .....even after they hire Mike Babcock they STILL insist they are 'rebuilding'.

What kind of suckers do they take the other GMs for ?
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Hmmm, maybe and I mean just maybe there was a reason they signed him to an 8 year contract. Gee, wouldn't that be something!

Also, it's not like Leaf management has made it known they are rebuilding "ad infinitium", even after hiring Babcock. I guess they must just be lying and a random poster on HF, who clearly has an agenda against the team and its fans, is obviously right.
 
Bomber0104 said:
Sorry, I can't help but comment.

For someone who is a both a Lightning fan and not a fan of Kessel, this is a very strange cause for you to take up at the present time....

Kessel has a summer home in Florida. Did you know that?
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Yeah I know but there is now way he is coming to Tampa maybe for with all the players they are resigning soon and I dont want him to go to Florida.
 
Subbanned said:
Adipose cells never go away. This is more true when they are artificially edamatously inflamed (i.e. as opposed to natural weight gain), as is the case with the chemotherapeutic drugs that Phil received. Thus he will hold those extra areas of deposition (that, once again, do not have the concurrent atrophic effects that normal fat gain does) for the rest of his life.

Of course, the reason this myth is floating around in the first place is because layfolk will think about this and just say "I don't think that's plausible"..."the elite NHL player that is one of the fastest in his peer group and tops the fitness tests on his team is probably just fat, that's WAY more plausible".
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Well, I guess if you can be fat and still be a great player, then go ahead and be fat.

(Or merely "appear" to be fat in Kessel's case? Seems a bit strange to me, but whatever)

Its that fat contract, disinterested play and questionable attitude I would consider problematic when it comes to getting value in a trade involving Kessel.
 
Gormo said:
Well, I guess if you can be fat and still be a great player, then go ahead and be fat.

(Or merely "appear" to be fat in Kessel's case? Seems a bit strange to me, but whatever)

Its that fat contract, disinterested play and questionable attitude I would consider problematic when it comes to getting value in a trade involving Kessel.
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It seems a bit strange that strong drugs can cause bloating and puffiness? Ohkayyy
 
Durrr said:
OP is pretty spot on.

Not even a big Kessel fan (I understand his time in Toronto is up) but the amount of hate this guy gets in his own city (never mind the rest of the league) is laughable.

People can't even distinguish their own silly opinions from fact anymore with Kessel, spewing nonsense about his conditioning, attitude and other nonsense that they generally have no way of knowing.

People are going to hate on this, but Kessel and Kane are pretty much identical players in the past few seasons (and all the stats support this). The difference? One plays on the best team in the league, the other plays on a first line with Tyler Bozak.
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Yey; another non Kessel fan. I love reading this thread
 
Pyrophorus said:
Is Kessel not a team player or are all the players, not team players?

How did you treat supply teachers in school?
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the top two lines are floaters while the bottom two lines are grinders. Not exactly the proper way to build a team and instill an identity. Horacek was already doomed to fail before his first game.
 
I wouldn't necessarily agree that Kessel is not "bad defensively," but I'd expect most teams have at least two players that are worse, few of whom score as much.
 
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