The Truth about Phil Kessel

[Rebuilt]

heatley to san jose

So a michalek pre tons a injuries(really good prospect/solid young player)
Late to mid first
uncertain piece that might bounce back

I think people also make a fair point when they say he shouldnt return what he was first traded for.

Because Kessel is a two time 50 goal scorer who also played in the Stanley Cup finals?

 

[93gilmour93]

Because Kessel is a two time 50 goal scorer who also played in the Stanley Cup finals?

If Kessel had Alfie and spezza to play with he would have multiple 50 goal seasons and played in the SCF on that line.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Because Kessel is a two time 50 goal scorer who also played in the Stanley Cup finals?

different league scoring levels, heatley played on one of the best modern day offensive lines and kessel to my knowledge hasnt asked for a trade

 

[HighLifeMan]

You may have a point in defending Kessel's current worth and ability but going over the top by making such ridiculous proposals is not going to help your cause, and it's going to cause people to completely overlook the premise of the thread.

Bennett, Poirier, Ferland and the 45th might get Toronto interested? Yikes. Phil is not worth anything close to that.

 

[Thebolt*]

You may have a point in defending Kessel's current worth and ability but going over the top by making such ridiculous proposals is not going to help your cause, and it's going to cause people to completely overlook the premise of the thread.

Bennett, Poirier, Ferland and the 45th might get Toronto interested? Yikes. Phil is not worth anything close to that.

Ok maybe not Bennett + Poirier but the Leafs would need a really good young player coming back maybe not Bennetts levell but certainly a lot higher than Poirier

 

[Sonofamitch]

I tend to judge players not on what his devotional fans are saying about him. Its what they are NOT saying about him. Not one single part of any post on here from his defenders mentions a fairly major part of any players trade value.

His age and his contract.

He is 28 years old and due to be paid 8 million dollars for 7 long years. Did I mention EIGHT million? No star players are better at 34 than they were at 28 . Few are better at 30 than they were at 28.

Even when discussing his past seasons, most ignore this past season, and those who do address it immediately make excuses for it. Blaming it on other players, the coach or whatever.

When you are a GM, you need to look at your team from a 1 year 2 year 5 year and beyond point of view. Kessel is going to end up just like Dany Heatly, Mike Richards , Thomas Vanek and others . Its just of matter of when.

So, realisitically, he will be worth a player making 8 mil for 3 more years. 28,29,30. After that he will have negative value compared to his salary. How does a contending team deal with cap hell?

They trade at a discount or put players on waivers.

Go ask the Kings , Hawks and Bruins how they felt about it.

I want you all to keep this in mind when discussing Kessel trade value and stop hyping past years of glory that have nothing to do with who he is today. Those years were enjoyed by Leaf fans . You cant re sell them to other teams.

So basically a player that's 28 shouldn't be signed to a deal longer than 3 years. I understand that Kessel will eventually decline. I too think he will a player that declines quick but not at the aggagerated rate you mention. I think he has 4 more years left at top line production. At 32 his speed will likely begin to fall off. He's the type of player that if not in a scoring line role won't be affective. Basically he needs to be a top 6 player or he won't be in the league. I can see him having 2 more years as a second line forward from 32 to 34. Unfortunately I can't see him lasting in the league any longer then that.

You also forget to mention that salary cap is increasing and players are getting paid more. Second line players are making 5 million a year now a days. Top line guys are gonna be getting 7 million at least

 

[Gormo]

What about his conduct? Hasnt that always been the overriding issue with Kessel?

The effort level sucks. He prefers to bicker with the media rather then opposing teams. He has problems getting on with teammates.

Im not sure why he would start listening to his coach now when he never really has before.

This means taking on that massive contract is a massive risk. Along with his age and term, I figure these kinds of issues would cripple anyone's trade value.

 

[Thebolt*]

What about his conduct? Hasnt that always been the overriding issue with Kessel?

The effort level sucks. He prefers to bicker with the media rather then opposing teams. He has problems getting on with teammates.

Im not sure why he would start listening to his coach now when he never really has before.

This means taking on that massive contract is a massive risk. I figure these kinds of issues would cripple anyone's trade value.

Having Horacek as coach is like having a supply teacher almost. No one will listen to the supply teacher and will do whatever they want.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

heatley to san jose

So a michalek pre tons a injuries(really good prospect/solid young player)
Late to mid first
uncertain piece that might bounce back

I think people also make a fair point when they say he shouldnt return what he was first traded for.

No way, that trade was forced cause Heatley only wanted to play there. I'd look at the Carter to Columbus as a better gage

 

[Freudian]

He's a good goal scorer and is able to create offense for himself through his skating and good wrist shot.

He cheats on defense to create offense, is allergic to all kinds of contact and there are question marks about his conditioning.

I suspect he's going to hit the wall sooner rather than later and then you'll be stuck with a $8M/year contract. Buyer beware. But he'll probably get you 30-35 goals for two-three years until that happens.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

No way, that trade was forced cause Heatley only wanted to play there. I'd look at the Carter to Columbus as a better gage

You realize MM was coming off a 57 point season at a young age? He was very highly thought of considering he was 220 pounds and his best asset was his skating. Unfortunately he alsmost immediately started having major knee issues

 

[Sonofamitch]

What about his conduct? Hasnt that always been the overriding issue with Kessel?

The effort level sucks. He prefers to bicker with the media rather then opposing teams. He has problems getting on with teammates.

Im not sure why he would start listening to his coach now when he never really has before.

This means taking on that massive contract is a massive risk. Along with his age and term, I figure these kinds of issues would cripple anyone's trade value.

Not sure if you mean getting on as in chemistry with teammates but if so that's wrong. Kessel has produced no matter who his line mates have been in Toronto example scoring 30 goals with Joey Crabb and Bozak.

If you meant to say get along with teammates your also wrong. Kessel is one of the most loved teammates in the locker room and has a lot of close bounds with the guys in the locker room. Very apparent if you watch the leafs HBO special.hes also got plenty of good friends from his Boston days. If you watch the handshake like from their series you can see players on that team liked him. He's also the only guy to speak up and protect his teammate and captain from the media. If you consider that bickering then I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[LilySmoov]

The thing is, Kessel is not good. I rather have a decent scorer playing well in all months against all teams than a Kessel who disappears against good defense and in important games. He plays like he is alone on ice.

You gonna be able to back this up in any way?

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Not sure if you mean getting on as in chemistry with teammates but if so that's wrong. Kessel has produced no matter who his line mates have been in Toronto example scoring 30 goals with Joey Crabb and Bozak.

If you meant to say get along with teammates your also wrong. Kessel is one of the most loved teammates in the locker room and has a lot of close bounds with the guys in the locker room. Very apparent if you watch the leafs HBO special.hes also got plenty of good friends from his Boston days. If you watch the handshake like from their series you can see players on that team liked him. He's also the only guy to speak up and protect his teammate and captain from the media. If you consider that bickering then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Was it Johnson who bashed Kessel? I think thats were alot of attitude concerns came from. At least he did fall in the draft because of that..no?

 

[BruinsBtn]

Let me just start by saying that I am not a fan of Kessel but I do have respect for how good he is. Ok so the past couple of months there have been large amounts of Phil Kessel proposols.Each one of them contain multiple responses such as "hes overpaid" "his conditioning is horrible" "hes bad defensively" "65 point winger". All of which are incorrect.
He does not have bad condioning, he tales a medication to treat for his cancer that he was diagnosed with in 2006. The side effects of his medication cause him to get fatter but not weigh more. Yes I understand he may not be making an effort to get slimmer but, to be that fast and rarely miss a game and for people to say he has bad conditioning is just insanely stupid. To be called 65 point winger is just stupid

You dont base a player by his worst season. Because the I guess Ovi is a 32 goal scorer and Kane is a 66 point winger, you could do that for everybody and the you compare him to your players best season is just the stupidest thing people on here do. I know he is bad defensively but if the Leafs got him a good center like Staal or Thornton one that could take pressure off Kessel he wouldnt nor would the Leafs be in this position. Kane is just as bad defensively as Kessel but he has the best defensive in the league and has either Hossa,Toews or Richards with him to back him up. There are so many good forwards that arent great defensively. Look at Ovi until Trotz came and guided him he was terrible defensively. Once Babcock works with Kessel he will have the same turnaround as Ovi.

I know its a lot to read but I just want people to stop underrating Kessels abilities. Hes one of the top players in the league and I bet you at least 20GMs are interested in acquiring him,the fans may not want him but they dont run the team. And the price that will be announced will certainly be more than what people are trying to propose. He is definitely worth a top prospect, top 10 draft pick and a good roster player.

I know im going to get ripped apart for this but for His value to acquire him its going to cost Lindholm + 5th overall + Semin + Liles if Carolina tbh. His value is definitely a lot more than 45th overall + Ferland + Poirer maybe if they add Bennett than it cpuld be close but no way

Edit: Thanks oheyithemsky for the advice

*citation needed

 

[The Undertaker]

The Real Truth about Phil Kessel

I know im going to get ripped apart for this but for His value to acquire him its going to cost 45th overall + Ferland + Poirer if Calgary tbh. His value is definitely a lot less than Lindholm + 5th overall + Semin + Liles if they take away Lindholm than it cpuld be close but no way

 

[Schenn]

You gonna be able to back this up in any way?

He is just about a PPG player in both playoffs and international competition his whole career so obviously that poster is out to lunch.

 

[Thebolt*]

*citation needed

My brother is a doctor who works closely with these type of medications and told me that there is no way he is fat from no excersise and eating after to much after he saw how fatshe was. I told him that he had cancer and he told me there are some medication that cause you to become bloated but you dont gain lots of weight.

 

[Swervin81]

My brother is a doctor who works closely with these type of medications and told me that there is no way he is fat from no excersise and eating after to much after he saw how fatshe was. I told him that he had cancer and he told me there are some medication that cause you to become bloated but you dont gain lots of weight.

Yeah, there's plenty of meds that have the side effect of bloating or retaining water weight.

 

[PB37]

Kessel since joining Toronto

09-10 (21 years old)
30 goals 55 points in 70 games

10-11
32 goals 64 points

11-12
37 goals 82 points

12-13
20 goals 52 points in 48 games

13-14
37 goals 80 points

14-15
25 goals 61 points (was PPG until Carlyle firing, entire team collapsed)

So you're saying that for his career in Toronto he's a 70 point offensive scorer, which isn't too far off from the perception I ( and apparently others ) have of him.

 

[PB37]

My brother is a doctor who works closely with these type of medications and told me that there is no way he is fat from no excersise and eating after to much after he saw how fatshe was. I told him that he had cancer and he told me there are some medication that cause you to become bloated but you dont gain lots of weight.

His first couple of years in Boston, he had to work closely with a dietician to curb his ice cream and candy habits.

 

[snizzbone*]

So you're saying that for his career in Toronto he's a 70 point offensive scorer, which isn't too far off from the perception I ( and apparently others ) have of him.

He was a point per game guy for 3 straight years, followed by half a season this year and then the team collapsed and so did him/his point totals. I would fully expect him to score a ppg next year, assuming hes on a different team.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

Let's call a spade a spade here. Phil Kessel is a talented player who has no leadership ability, has no backbone, has no compete level, has no defensive game and who quit playing this year.

This is a player who comes to camp out of shape, and does not put time in the gym. This is a player who has fought with more than one teammate, is pathetic with the press and has a tendency to sulk when things don't go his way.

I don't blame any hockey fan not wanting him on their team at all.

 

[Thebolt*]

Let's call a spade a spade here. Phil Kessel is a talented player who has no leadership ability, has no backbone, has no compete level, has no defensive game and who quit playing this year.

This is a player who comes to camp out of shape, and does not put time in the gym. This is a player who has fought with more than one teammate, is pathetic with the press and has a tendency to sulk when things don't go his way.

I don't blame any hockey fan not wanting him on their team at all.

Since when is his goal scoring totals less important than everything else because no team would want a close ppg player over his career.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

Since when is his goal scoring totals less important than everything else because no team would want a close ppg player over his career.

When you score 35 and are on the ice for 50 against. You're not helping your team. You are hurting your team.