The Truth about Phil Kessel

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Let's call a spade a spade here. Phil Kessel is a talented player who has no leadership ability, has no backbone, has no compete level, has no defensive game and who quit playing this year.

This is a player who comes to camp out of shape, and does not put time in the gym. This is a player who has fought with more than one teammate, is pathetic with the press and has a tendency to sulk when things don't go his way.

I don't blame any hockey fan not wanting him on their team at all.

Hard to believe a guy that terrible is like 2nd leading scorer in the ENTIRE nhl the past number of seasons. Crazy

 

[PB37]

Since when is his goal scoring totals less important than everything else because no team would want a close ppg player over his career.

For his career, Kessel averages out to 64 points a season.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

What about his conduct? Hasnt that always been the overriding issue with Kessel?

The effort level sucks. He prefers to bicker with the media rather then opposing teams. He has problems getting on with teammates.

Im not sure why he would start listening to his coach now when he never really has before.

This means taking on that massive contract is a massive risk. Along with his age and term, I figure these kinds of issues would cripple anyone's trade value.

Again with these stupid rumours of him not getting along with his teammates?...

I'll just leave this link here... just in case anyone else wants to spew this misinformed crap about him being some sort of a malcontent.

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2012/02/26/a-chance-encounter-with-brian-burke/

On Phil Kessel: Burke spoke glowingly of Phil Kessel’s attitude and attempted to dispel the common belief that he’s aloof and disinterested in interviews. He explained, almost sheepishly, that Phil Kessel was plagued with shyness due to teenaged acne. During the pre-draft interviews of top prospects in 2006, Burke was left with an incredibly bad impression of Kessel, who wouldn’t look anyone in the eye and kept his head down throughout the interviews.

Burke said his opinion of Kessel changed during the World Championships in Halifax in 2009. Burke was GM of Team USA’s entry, and Kessel had just come off his 36 goal campaign with the Boston Bruins. While training for the event in Maine, Tim Gleason approached Phil Kessel to invite him on an ocean fishing trip with the rest of the team. Kessel explained to Gleason that while he loves to fish, he gets seasick on rough water and would feel awful all day.

Yet Kessel took part on the fishing trip, sucking up seasickness, for the sake of espirit de corps and team building. Kessel felt obliged towards his teammates regardless of his personal comfort. Burke remarked that he was impressed by such a team-first attitude from a young guy.

He also touched on Kessel’s maturity. After getting knocked out early in the tournament, there was a chartered flight for the team to Boston at 6 in the morning. Only 8 players decided to make that flight, and only two – Kessel and Gleason – showed up sober, well rested and dressed in suits. Kessel approached Burke, apologized for the team’s unsuccessful run and expressed a sincere distaste for not medaling in the tournament. It was then, Burke said, that he wanted Phil Kessel to play hockey for him.

Yeah, what a horrible teammate that Phil Kessel is...

 

[NFITO]

Kessel has 21 points in 22 career playoff games, well above his regular season averages, so it's not like he disappears. Matter of fact, it's the only time he bothers showing up consistently. His defense and lack of playing anywhere else but the offensive zone is unacceptable, though. His backchecking is so lazy he makes one great backcheck stick lift every 10 or so games and we're all like "wait, he just did that?".

And yeah, I do think Kessel has a lot more value league wide than people seem to think just because of how low scoring is in today's game, let alone how talented he is.

The truth is Kessel wants to play the game his own way, which is an incredibly high skill, high speed, offensive minded game that sadly doesn't always jive with the way successful teams play. I think he's got pride in his game but he's also incredibly stubborn and unable to see the bigger team picture beyond out running and out gunning your troubles, which creates a vicious cycle of sloppy play.

I also think he tends to abuse his abundant natural gifts. He is naturally explosive but he doesn't put in the time or effort to up his conditioning, so he's basically a "deliver the payload" kind of guy who doesn't have the endurance or will to engage physically or win key puck battles.

At the end of the day, I'd rather see him go to another team and score 30 goals and 80 points his way and have the cap space and good future assets back than to risk him spiraling into oblivion and being a complete waste of cap for the next seven years. I don't care for the way he approaches the game.

Times up.

Quoting a couple posts from Leafs fans that show why Kessel's value will be limited in the end.

How many team's are rushing out there to add a $8mill contract slot against a cap that seems limited across the league - especially with teams that are willing to spend the money to begin with - on a player that they simply can not build around because of his overall impact towards a successful franchise?

Kessel's not a great overall player - said as much by Leafs fans themselves as we see above. He's a great goal scorer, can put up points on the board, but will not add much else, seems to portray a lazy attitude and work ethic, and as said above, plays in one zone, and his game "doesn't jive with the way successful teams play." He may be a great one-zone player, but he's certainly not a great overall player - and still takes up more than 10% of the cap by himself.

If that's what you're getting for a $8mill cap hit, who you know won't play at his prime level for more than a couple more years, while retain that cap hit for another 7 years, how many teams are lining up to give up a top 10 pick in a deep draft, and tons more to acquire him?

You can break it down further - of the 10 teams that have a top-10 pick, is there anyone who would consider giving that pick up alone for Kessel, keeping in mind the cap implications as well?

So outside the top 4, would any of Carolina, NJ, Philly, Columbus, SJ or Colorado give up their pick for Kessel? I can't see it personally... either cap space, needs elsewhere, or rebuilding cycle vs immediate impact will keep those teams out of it.

I think there are *some* teams willing to see what it would take to get Kessel... basically seeing if this is a situation where Toronto is looking to move past his contract and sell low. I don't think the market for Kessel is where teams are willing to bid against each other to land him, inflating his value. He's a huge chunk of your cap and a risk moving forward to come close to hitting contract value for even half his remaining years, while he's still a one-zone player who isn't one you build a team around... if you're paying his contract price plus the price of a lofty return in trade, I doubt there are too many teams lined up to acquire him.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

When you score 35 and are on the ice for 50 against. You're not helping your team. You are hurting your team.

That's only because of coaching. Under Babcock, he'll be fine

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

That's only because of coaching. Under Babcock, he'll be fine

I hope so, he's gotten three coaches fired in four years.

Yes the same four years he's top five overall in points.

More than goals to hockey

 

[Geese_Howard*]

Kessel won't decline for a while, the way he plays he rarely takes contact. I know many of you hate that but I never understood you'd want your star player to abuse his body rather than playing smart. He plays smart, yah sometimes he makes bad plays or takes plays off but what star player doesn't? He has a finesse game that will prolong his prime.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

I hope so, he's gotten three coaches fired in four years.

Yes the same four years he's top five overall in points.

More than goals to hockey

Almost like its a team game or something....

 

[BruinsBtn]

My brother is a doctor who works closely with these type of medications and told me that there is no way he is fat from no excersise and eating after to much after he saw how fatshe was. I told him that he had cancer and he told me there are some medication that cause you to become bloated but you dont gain lots of weight.

Yeah, that's not a source. That's speculation.

Getting a testicle removed doesn't require you to take drugs 9 years later.

 

[LilySmoov]

I hope so, he's gotten three coaches fired in four years.

Yes the same four years he's top five overall in points.

More than goals to hockey

Is there really no part of you that doesn't find this statement at least a tiny bit disingenuous?

 

[FamilyGuy716]

I don't want Kessel because he's not a player you win a SC with...

https://leafsdiary.wordpress.com/2015/05/21/maple-leafs-advanced-stats-series-phil-kessel/

I think your going to be disappointed with the return you get for Kessel

 

[Blender]

The guy might be a bottom 5 defensive player in the league, hardly backchecks, hardly forechecks, tries to avoid taking hits even if he gives away the puck, and pretty much avoids the corners whenever he can. No team is going to win a Cup with this guy as a key part of the team, and at $8M for 7 more years that is what he is. No one should be paying a huge price for him, and definitely should pay less than what the Leafs dealt to get him (projected to be two mid-round 1sts and a mid-round 2nd).

Some team might be dumb enough to overpay as it happens, but he is an offensively gifted player with big flaws in his game.

 

[alg363636]

Kessel is a great player. [mod] He is an elite scorer who has shown he can turn it on in the playoffs.

That being said, he is lazy defensively and cannot handle being the star of a team.

If you put Kessel into a smaller market, give him an appropriate center and a coach who can teach defense he will blossom. Ovi had a lot of the same criticisms last year that Kessel gets. He got put into a functioning team with a defensive coach and he is now hailed as one of the best, if not the best, player in the world.

He is not a build-around player. And that's fine - most players aren't. But he would be a superb supporting cast player if given the right circumstances. Fortunately, GMs aren't HFboard posters and if he gets traded, they know his strengths and weaknesses.

For his sake though, I do hope he gets out of Toronto. Even with Babcock they are going to be in the ******* for a while and he will continue to be part of the ever-living fishbowl that is Toronto. He deserves a chance to really compete on a functioning team.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

Is there really no part of you that doesn't find this statement at least a tiny bit disingenuous?

As someone who has rooted for the Leafs most likely longer than you been alive, please tell me where I'm incorrect?

Are you trying to tell the good people here that he had no issues with Wilson? That would take a Google search and twenty seconds to prove.

Are you trying to tell the good people here, that him coming to camp out of shape and basically telling the asst. Coach to eff off when he attempted to change the way he played. Didn't cost Carlisle his job? Again a Google search and twenty seconds will find you some interesting quotes.

Not even going to get into the last three months where he quit trying.

Please show me where I'm wrong. He's the best player, he takes the wrath

 

[WreckItRask]

I actually feel bad for Phil. He should have never been put in a position that he's been put in in Toronto. Leadership, Accountability, PR Moxie, etc...just not things that are his strengths. Some guys are just better served to show up to the rink every day, score a bunch of goals, and then go home. I don't know why we force dudes like Phil Kessel (guys that are clearly not comfortable representing their teams to the media hordes) to give interviews every day.

 

[salsa man]

He prefers Limeade

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Let me just start by saying that I am not a fan of Kessel but I do have respect for how good he is. (""")

Really?

Will you swear to it?

A good number of your statements belie that affirmation...

 

[LilySmoov]

Are you trying to tell the good people here that he had no issues with Wilson?

No I am not.

Are you trying to tell the good people here, that him coming to camp out of shape and basically telling the asst. Coach to eff off when he attempted to change the way he played.

No I am not.

Didn't cost Carlisle his job? Again a Google search and twenty seconds will find you some interesting quotes.

Provide them.

He's the best player, he takes the wrath

That's not how it works. Either you can demonstrate a direct causal link, or you can't.

So, your numerous fallacies is where you're incorrect.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

No I am not.


No I am not.


Provide them.


That's not how it works. Either you can demonstrate a direct causal link, or you can't.

So, your numerous fallacies is where you're incorrect.

Ok buddy, Phil did everything in his power to have the coaches keep their jobs. His work ethic and desire to be the best makes him a top three player in the game!

The Leafs would be foolish to trade such a great player! Am I drinking the kool-aid?

Fact is last time the Leafs had a player like Kessel, the coach had him traded for Kordic

 

[SheldonJPlankton]

Kessel reminds me so much of Scott Gomez.

Like Gomez, I expect Kessel's offensive game to flame out in his late 20 's and early 30's. Unlike Gomez, Kessel won't be able to transition into a more defensive, 3rd or 4th line role.

I fully expect Kessel out of the NHL before his contract expires.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Game breaking offensive talent who can get you ~35 goals, ~PPG even with a guy like Bozak as his C. Last season was a tough year (more like an atrocious second half) for him, but you can't just ignore his production level since January/February 2011 (around the time Kessel got an upgraded linemate in the form of Lupul), up until Carlyle got fired midway through this season (January, 2015). He has been a PPG through that stretch, and I have no doubt he will return to producing at a 70 pt/PPG clip next season as well.

He doesn't play defence, and it doesn't help that the Leafs are one of the worst defensive groups even when you take out Kessel. Need to play Phil with strong defensive players if you truly want to maximize his impact for your team, and that's one of the reasons why Florida seems like a great fit for Kessel. IMO ofcourse

 

[LilySmoov]

Ok buddy, Phil did everything in his power to have the coaches keep their jobs. His work ethic and desire to be the best makes him a top three player in the game!

The Leafs would be foolish to trade such a great player! Am I drinking the kool-aid?

Fact is last time the Leafs had a player like Kessel, the coach had him traded for Kordic

More fallacies, still no demonstration of a causal link between Kessel's play alone and coaches getting fired.

At least make an effort.

 

[Thebolt*]

Yeah, that's not a source. That's speculation.

Getting a testicle removed doesn't require you to take drugs 9 years later.

I meant that the medication he took caused him to become bloated but he hasnt made an ecfort to to slim down or he just isnt able too

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

Game breaking offensive talent who can get you ~35 goals, ~PPG even with a guy like Bozak as his C. Last season was a tough year (more like an atrocious second half) for him, but you can't just ignore his production level since January/February 2011 (around the time Kessel got an upgraded linemate in the form of Lupul), up until Carlyle got fired midway through this season (January, 2015). He has been a PPG through that stretch, and I have no doubt he will return to producing at a 70 pt/PPG clip next season as well.

He doesn't play defence, and it doesn't help that the Leafs are one of the worst defensive groups even when you take out Kessel. Need to play Phil with strong defensive players if you truly want to maximize his impact for your team, and that's one of the reasons why Florida seems like a great fit for Kessel. IMO ofcourse

I see Montreal being a good fit for him as well or Jersey

 

[TopT]

Let me just start by saying that I am not a fan of Kessel but I do have respect for how good he is. Ok so the past couple of months there have been large amounts of Phil Kessel proposols.Each one of them contain multiple responses such as "hes overpaid" "his conditioning is horrible" "hes bad defensively" "65 point winger". All of which are incorrect.
He does not have bad condioning, he tales a medication to treat for his cancer that he was diagnosed with in 2006. The side effects of his medication cause him to get fatter but not weigh more. Yes I understand he may not be making an effort to get slimmer but, to be that fast and rarely miss a game and for people to say he has bad conditioning is just insanely stupid. To be called 65 point winger is just stupid

You dont base a player by his worst season. Because the I guess Ovi is a 32 goal scorer and Kane is a 66 point winger, you could do that for everybody and the you compare him to your players best season is just the stupidest thing people on here do. I know he is bad defensively but if the Leafs got him a good center like Staal or Thornton one that could take pressure off Kessel he wouldnt nor would the Leafs be in this position. Kane is just as bad defensively as Kessel but he has the best defensive in the league and has either Hossa,Toews or Richards with him to back him up. There are so many good forwards that arent great defensively. Look at Ovi until Trotz came and guided him he was terrible defensively. Once Babcock works with Kessel he will have the same turnaround as Ovi.

I know its a lot to read but I just want people to stop underrating Kessels abilities. Hes one of the top players in the league and I bet you at least 20GMs are interested in acquiring him,the fans may not want him but they dont run the team. And the price that will be announced will certainly be more than what people are trying to propose. He is definitely worth a top prospect, top 10 draft pick and a good roster player.

I know im going to get ripped apart for this but for His value to acquire him its going to cost Lindholm + 5th overall + Semin + Liles if Carolina tbh. His value is definitely a lot more than 45th overall + Ferland + Poirer maybe if they add Bennett than it cpuld be close but no way

Edit: Thanks oheyithemsky for the advice

Are this the same medications Lance Armstrong was taking ?