OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[T1K]

Lawrence would have been as hyped 20 years ago as he was last year.

And a disappointing year under Urban Meyer doesn’t mean he was overhyped. He’s still likely going to be very good.

Urban Meyer was toxic. TLaw had no chance to succeed in year 1.

Urban Meyer's NFL debacle: New details show that ex-Jaguars coach was a total disaster in Jacksonville

Meyer's tenure in Jacksonville was actually worse than anyone originally thought

www.google.com

 

[DanielPlainview]

Murray is getting beat up already from running around and having to bootleg all the time. He’s not likely to have a long career

 

[T1K]

Murray is getting beat up already from running around and having to bootleg all the time. He’s not likely to have a long career

That’s different than him not being able to throw or go through progressions. When he’s not able to run around as much he’ll adjust his game the same way Russ, Ben, and many others have.

 

[xlm34]

Urban Meyer was toxic. TLaw had no chance to succeed in year 1.

Urban Meyer's NFL debacle: New details show that ex-Jaguars coach was a total disaster in Jacksonville

Meyer's tenure in Jacksonville was actually worse than anyone originally thought

www.google.com

Yeah it was honestly pretty impressive how Lawrence handled everything. Meyer had no business being in the NFL.

 

[Peat]

Kyler Murray has elite speed and has no issues as a passer or progressing through reads. I expect the same jump in development from Justin Fields this year.

I did use the word probably for a reason. Yeah, some guys do it. I daresay we'll see more as the league tries to force it. But it's pretty common for it not to work that way.

 

[T1K]

I did use the word probably for a reason. Yeah, some guys do it. I daresay we'll see more as the league tries to force it. But it's pretty common for it not to work that way.

I don’t see it as teams “forcing it”, but rather that the requirements the QB position are rapidly changing as more teams embrace the concepts of the spread offenses ran at many colleges. Instead of forcing a QB to adapt to the “pro” offense, more teams are building offenses around what their young QBs do well. As they gain experience they’ll naturally grow in the more cerebral parts of the game.

 

[Son Goku]

Witherspoon officially signed

 

[DanielPlainview]

Saw a mock that had the Steelers trading into the Top 10 to take Desmond Ridder and I could only think the person was trying to curse the Steelers by putting that out into the universe

 

[JTG]

Draft a first-round QB but plan to have him sit behind a guy with some experience who you think might be decent too.

I like it. If Mitch hurts his elbow in Week 2…

I hate wasting a 1st rounder on a guy who will have no impact if everything goes perfectly, but it could benefit the team greatly. If Trubisky does well, he will have value.

I'm not a huge fan of Willis' mechanics, but I remember these exact concerns around Mahomes. When you have a guy that has athleticism to buy time, sometimes they can get around the mechanic issues. It's a new age NFL QB. Not every guy has a pretty throwing motion.

My uneducated guess is Ridder or Willis if available

Ridder is the darkhouse. So many checks for him. He can run, he has a strong arm, has played in cold weather climate, long time starter who has had success. Ridder was my guy until I watched him three times and never came away very impressed.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I hate wasting a 1st rounder on a guy who will have no impact if everything goes perfectly, but it could benefit the team greatly. If Trubisky does well, he will have value.

I'm not a huge fan of Willis' mechanics, but I remember these exact concerns around Mahomes. When you have a guy that has athleticism to buy time, sometimes they can get around the mechanic issues. It's a new age NFL QB. Not every guy has a pretty throwing motion.



Ridder is the darkhouse. So many checks for him. He can run, he has a strong arm, has played in cold weather climate, long time starter who has had success. Ridder was my guy until I watched him three times and never came away very impressed.

I’ll be honest, I was just noting how that scenario lined up with the last time they drafted a first round QB. That post was for the funs. I’ve actually been saying pretty much the same as you do here, that I don’t like any of these guys enough that I’d prefer to wait and see on guys like Ridder/Corral /Howell in round 2.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I hate wasting a 1st rounder on a guy who will have no impact if everything goes perfectly, but it could benefit the team greatly. If Trubisky does well, he will have value.

I'm not a huge fan of Willis' mechanics, but I remember these exact concerns around Mahomes. When you have a guy that has athleticism to buy time, sometimes they can get around the mechanic issues. It's a new age NFL QB. Not every guy has a pretty throwing motion.



Ridder is the darkhouse. So many checks for him. He can run, he has a strong arm, has played in cold weather climate, long time starter who has had success. Ridder was my guy until I watched him three times and never came away very impressed.

I watched Ridder last year, my take away is that he's hot trash. It would be dumbest decision made by this franchise in a very long time.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Ridder is definitely a combine guy. All the measurables that don’t add up on the field

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I hate wasting a 1st rounder on a guy who will have no impact if everything goes perfectly, but it could benefit the team greatly. If Trubisky does well, he will have value.

I'm not a huge fan of Willis' mechanics, but I remember these exact concerns around Mahomes. When you have a guy that has athleticism to buy time, sometimes they can get around the mechanic issues. It's a new age NFL QB. Not every guy has a pretty throwing motion.



Ridder is the darkhouse. So many checks for him. He can run, he has a strong arm, has played in cold weather climate, long time starter who has had success. Ridder was my guy until I watched him three times and never came away very impressed.

Biggest knock on Mahomes was he came from an Air Raid offense and no QB from that type of offense had much NFL success - it was seen as a gimmick that inflated a QBs stats.

He could make all the throws, was pretty apt at reading a D, and his mechanics were never a huge issue from what I recall. He was a guy who scrambled for guys to get open, whereas Willis just takes off.

Willis has all the red flags of a guy that will bust, but scouts just continue to ignore these alarm bells because of his athleticism.

 

[Captain Hook]

I agree on Ridder. He was the draft eligible QB I liked the most coming into this season but I largely came away underwhelmed by him.

I do think Ridder will go round one though. He checks too many boxes. Good size, good arm strength, very mobile, all the leadership and intangibles. It's just his accuracy or lack there of that's a big concern. Some team will love him for all the good qualities mentioned and will feel they can work with him on the accuracy issue. Maybe they can. I'm just not sure. He played a ton of college games and it's still an issue. It's not like Malik where you expect him to still have some issues since he only started for 2 seasons. Ridder is a 4 year starter. You have to wonder if he's maxed out and just is what he is at this point. He still probably has the second highest ceiling in this QB class though. Some team will gamble on that.

 

[JTG]

Biggest knock on Mahomes was he came from an Air Raid offense and no QB from that type of offense had much NFL success - it was seen as a gimmick that inflated a QBs stats.

He could make all the throws, was pretty apt at reading a D, and his mechanics were never a huge issue from what I recall. He was a guy who scrambled for guys to get open, whereas Willis just takes off.

Willis has all the red flags of a guy that will bust, but scouts just continue to ignore these alarm bells because of his athleticism.

There were definitely questions about Mahomes mechanics and some of his decision making in his draft year. He's a gunslinger who didn't play a safe game, much like Favre. His f***ed up mechanics though are why he's an awesome QB because he makes all of these crazy throws. All of the knocks on Mahomes ended up being because he was just super confident and took chances.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

There were definitely questions about Mahomes mechanics and some of his decision making in his draft year. He's a gunslinger who didn't play a safe game, much like Favre. His f***ed up mechanics though are why he's an awesome QB because he makes all of these crazy throws. All of the knocks on Mahomes ended up being because he was just super confident and took chances.

I think the difference here goes well beyond mechanics though.

Mahomes was a very gifted passer coming from an Air Raid offense… his last two seasons at TT he put the ball in the air over 1000 times and almost had 10k yards.

To put things in perspective, in Mahome’s last season at TT, he only fell about 20-25 att and about 150 yards short of what Willis had in his ENTIRE college career.

All in all, in college, Mahomes had more than double the att (1300+ vs 600+) and yards (11,000+ vs 5000+).

It’s quite a striking difference.

Willis is a runner with accuracy issues and plays in a first read offense - he doesn’t process quickly… these are the same red flags I’ve seen fail at the next level over and over again.

 

[DanielPlainview]

I really hope the Lions do everyone a favor and take Willis second overall

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It’s never worked out with a QB like Willis… Vick is the closest example of any kind of sustained success of QBs in this genre - and he had a whopping two playoff wins in his entire career.

It’s a little disturbing if the reports are true that Tomlin is fixated on him.

Willis is the exact kind of QB that will generate fun and excitement for a couple seasons, never really win in the playoffs, and then be a journeyman bouncing around the league like RG3… and Jonny Football, is playing 7-7 Fan Controlled Football.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Randall Cunningham was probably the best dual threat QB IMO

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Randall Cunningham had a 5-7 record in the playoffs, so if he’s the best of this genre…

Case closed.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Impressive considering he played for the Eagles honestly

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Cam Newton, Russell Wilson and Steve Young are above Cunningham.

Vick was the most impressive in his prime. Lamar Jackson is a close second.

And Josh Allen is closing in fast.

I also don’t believe the Steelers are interested in Willis. Colbert said himself that accuracy is the number one thing he looks for in a QB and Willis struggles with that even when playing at a small school. Plus he has less than ideal size.

IMO, if Willis was any good he would have been playing at a division I school. And yes, I know he started at Auburn, but if he was good another D-I school would have brought him in.

Also, the Steelers really like players who play at big schools against good competition and that have played for a decent amount of games. They usually don’t take the one year wonder players.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Young is debateable. Played for way better teams. Wilson yes, if we consider him a true dual threat. Newton no way

 

[ChaosAgent]

Cam Newton, Russell Wilson and Steve Young are above Cunningham.

Vick was the most impressive in his prime. Lamar Jackson is a close second.

And Josh Allen is closing in fast.

I also don’t believe the Steelers are interested in Willis. Colbert said himself that accuracy is the number one thing he looks for in a QB and Willis struggles with that even when playing at a small school. Plus he has less than ideal size.

IMO, if Willis was any good he would have been playing at a division I school. And yes, I know he started at Auburn, but if he was good another D-I school would have brought him in.

Also, the Steelers really like players who play at big schools against good competition and that have played for a decent amount of games. They usually don’t take the one year wonder players.

I think Allen will be the best mobile QB by the time he is done.

Also Vick's off-field stuff prevented from seeing what he could fully do in his prime. He was great in Philly after returning.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think a lot of the issues with KM is that he is arguing against 4.4 QBs (faster than receivers and corners) when for most of us the threshold is about 4.65 (outrun DEs and most OLBs).