OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[JTG]

Great, but bitterly ironic given Franco (and Rocky) missed the game against the Raiders in which the '76 Steelers could have cemented their reputation as one of the greatest teams ever. But a lot of people forget how ****ing good that Raiders team was, unfortunately. At least I got to see them - frozen feet and all - beat them the year before in the Ice Bowl. What a great rivalry that was.

The same thing happened to the Steelers in the 2000's with the Pats. Those teams were incredible. New England was just on a historical trajectory.

 

[TotesTorts]

No. LeBeau flat out refused to accept that Brady and Belichick had figured out his zone coverage system, so they continued to trot out the same defense that would get dink and dunked to death. We got scorched by the likes of Troy Brown and Bethel Johnson

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

No. LeBeau flat out refused to accept that Brady and Belichick had figured out his zone coverage system, so they continued to trot out the same defense that would get dink and dunked to death. We got scorched by the likes of Troy Brown and Bethel Johnson

It wasnt “figured out” every defense is figured out within a year of implementation on a macro level.

There is 2 reasons the Patriots were so dominant.

1. They literally knew what play was coming.
2. They had the best QB of all time.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

So far what I've seen of Trubisky is that he's gonna be his surroundings 90% of the time. And his surroundings are exciting in terms of who he throws to, intriguing in terms of who will get him on the field where and with what score, concerning in terms of who will them what throws to make, and a Hieronymous Bosch acid-inspired dream level of terror at who is in front of him.

So I'm not going to argue with anyone ranking him low until I see the latter two shake out okay.

Tbh, I thought that list was good.

I think the large delta between Lawrence and Lance doesn’t make a ton of sense- they both looked bad last year but flashed some good and have ridiculous physical traits. 11 spots felt high.

Geno Smith where he was is clearly the hot take. I’d have put Trubisky 30, Smith, 31, Brissett 32.

Not sure why Mariota got such higher marks than Mitch either. They feel extremely comparable.

But overall I liked the quantifiable grading scale and I like that it’ll get weekly updates.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If MT doesn’t end up ranked higher than Geno Smith by the end of the year, this will be a miserable season.

 

[TotesTorts]

It wasnt “figured out” every defense is figured out within a year of implementation on a macro level.

There is 2 reasons the Patriots were so dominant.

1. They literally knew what play was coming.
2. They had the best QB of all time.

Yes, it was “figured out”. Belichick found the weakness in the coverage and exploited it. Brady wasn’t the greatest of all time in his second season or third or fourth. It really wasn’t until Cowher was on his way out that Brady was considered to be 1b with Manning, around the time he got Welker and Moss

 

[Peat]

Tbh, I thought that list was good.

I think the large delta between Lawrence and Lance doesn’t make a ton of sense- they both looked bad last year but flashed some good and have ridiculous physical traits. 11 spots felt high.

Geno Smith where he was is clearly the hot take. I’d have put Trubisky 30, Smith, 31, Brissett 32.

Not sure why Mariota got such higher marks than Mitch either. They feel extremely comparable.

But overall I liked the quantifiable grading scale and I like that it’ll get weekly updates.

Oh I never even read the list, although I am now. Definitely a fun read. And as said, I was never arguing with it. Even if I think Trubisky is 30th rather than 32nd... that doesn't really matter.

Tbh I kinda feel like everyone from Cousins down kind of fits what I said. Not that I think they're interchangeable but I think they're roughly at a talent level where I'd take Trubisky on a great team over Cousins on a weak team. I'd also add - and should have been in my original post - that 90% surroundings leaves 10% personal, and I'm mostly thinking of decision making and skill at big pressure moments, and everything I've read says Trubisky is not good there. Although the way he handled the TD drive at the end of the first half in the last pre-season game was good.

 

[edog37]

His development doesn’t need to be delayed…he’s already 24

24 is still young. Besides, the way this Oline is horrifically bad, you don't want him in there.

I think it's silly, but it is what coaches do, and don't forget Roth was slated to be third string behind Maddox and Batch, before injuries hit them both.

It's not like Cowher had some infinite wisdom and started Roth over his vet guys. He was his last resort.

Reality is, MT was anointed the starter March 17th.

Tomlin thinks this is a playoff team and robble robble.

Things felt so dire for this team last season, but KP getting drafted and showing well in the preseason, has given a kind of hope I didn't think we would see for many years TBTH.

So having that kind of hope makes it way easier to watch this pre-determined process play out.

100% spot on!

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Yes, it was “figured out”. Belichick found the weakness in the coverage and exploited it. Brady wasn’t the greatest of all time in his second season or third or fourth. It really wasn’t until Cowher was on his way out that Brady was considered to be 1b with Manning, around the time he got Welker and Moss

No, thats not how it works.

Yes, Lebeaus defense was figured out. But that was before Brady was even in college. The difference was the two factors listed above.

1. Knowing before hand the exact play. Which completely neuters the main scheme advantage of zone blitzing.

2. The best QB of all time whos best attributes are processing and accuracy. The two qualities you would give a QB going up against that scheme.

Its not that complicated. It wasnt some crazy puzzle offense couldnt figure out. Its a system built to put pressure on the QB both physically but more important mentally. To beat it you have to figure which guys are coming and which are dropping quickly and by the time most QBs can do that the physical pressure is there and its too late.

Brady is great at processing the play and getting the ball in and out of his hands.

It also help when you know the play call, eliminating the mental pressure portion.

Cheating and also having the best QB ever isnt some kind of knock on the defensive scheme.

 

[TotesTorts]

No, thats not how it works.

Yes, Lebeaus defense was figured out. But that was before Brady was even in college. The difference was the two factors listed above.

1. Knowing before hand the exact play. Which completely neuters the main scheme advantage of zone blitzing.

2. The best QB of all time whos best attributes are processing and accuracy. The two qualities you would give a QB going up against that scheme.

Its not that complicated. It wasnt some crazy puzzle offense couldnt figure out. Its a system built to put pressure on the QB both physically but more important mentally. To beat it you have to figure which guys are coming and which are dropping quickly and by the time most QBs can do that the physical pressure is there and its too late.

Brady is great at processing the play and getting the ball in and out of his hands.

It also help when you know the play call, eliminating the mental pressure portion.

Cheating and also having the best QB ever isnt some kind of knock on the defensive scheme.

You are overestimating the extent of the cheating. Bill and Brady did not know what exact play was coming for 15 years.

And yes, that is how it works. LeBeau’s system was notorious for befuddling everyone in the league. No one knew when or from where from the blitzes were coming and the zone coverage was deceptive. It was the Patriots who exploited the short game against it. Obviously having an accurate QB like Brady made the execution, but it was primarily the offensive scheme dominating the defensive. Still, acting as if Brady was a GOAT early in his career is contrary to reality. He was not. He was very good but the HOF numbers didn’t start until 2007ish.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

You are overestimating the extent of the cheating. Bill and Brady did not know what exact play was coming for 15 years.

And yes, that is how it works. LeBeau’s system was notorious for befuddling everyone in the league. No one knew when or from where from the blitzes were coming and the zone coverage was deceptive. It was the Patriots who exploited the short game against it. Obviously having an accurate QB like Brady made the execution, but it was primarily the offensive scheme dominating the defensive. Still, acting as if Brady was a GOAT early in his career is contrary to reality. He was not. He was very good but the HOF numbers didn’t start until 2007ish.

They played 10 times from 2001 to when Lebeau retired (01-04) lebeau wasnt there.

In the 7 losses. 4 where in the spygate era through 07.

The other set of games their record was 3-2 against us. With btw the best QB of all time.

 

[ChaosAgent]

They played 10 times from 2001 to when Lebeau retired (01-04) lebeau wasnt there.

In the 7 losses. 4 where in the spygate era through 07.

The other set of games their record was 3-2 against us. With btw the best QB of all time.

Wasn't one of them with Matt Cassel? Just keeping ya honest.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Wasn't one of them with Matt Cassel? Just keeping ya honest.

Actually your right it was.

But i think that highlights my point that the defense wasnt “figured out” by the patriots.

They either were cheating, had the best QB ever or both in the games they won.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Actually your right it was.

But i think that highlights my point that the defense wasnt “figured out” by the patriots.

They either were cheating, had the best QB ever or both in the games they won.

We were such an easy matchup for the Pats. Our secondary was terrible for basically an entire decade. Brady could pick apart zone and we didn't have the talent for man coverage.

Our defense for the entire 2010s was bad and we invested everything in Ben and the offense.

 

[JTG]

Wasn't one of them with Matt Cassel? Just keeping ya honest.

If I remember correctly, Cassel was playing really well though.

 

[lastcupever75]

Jack Tatum was well before my time, but I’ve heard/read he was a real POS.

Never apologized about his dirty hit on Stingley - I think that was a preseason game to make it even more f***ed up.

Atkinson ( dr death) might be worse.
He’s the one who clotheslined swan far away from the ball.

He’s still talks out of his azz on those nfl network football history shows

 

[JTG]

I have to say, Rudolph has been a true pro through this whole situation. I hope they can find a deal that makes sense to give him a shot somewhere else. In my opinion, he has earned the right to be kind of a prick.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Atkinson ( dr death) might be worse.
He’s the one who clotheslined swan far away from the ball.

He’s still talks out of his azz on those nfl network football history shows

I remember a little about him from watching those old NFL FIlms shows as a kid.

Didn’t the Steelers spray the field one time before a big game agt the Raiders to make it icy and slow down their passing game?

 

[Night Shift]

I remember a little about him from watching those old NFL FIlms shows as a kid.

Didn’t the Steelers spray the field one time before a big game agt the Raiders to make it icy and slow down their passing game?

Yeah and Madden was really pissed off.

 

[Al Smith]

I remember a little about him from watching those old NFL FIlms shows as a kid.

Didn’t the Steelers spray the field one time before a big game agt the Raiders to make it icy and slow down their passing game?

You can’t prove that!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You can’t prove that!

f***ing right I can…

My dad told me so!

 

[lastcupever75]

I think they left the field uncovered as a storm hit the night/morning before the game.

Screw the raiders though. I recently watched the sea of hands game they had vs. the dolphins in ‘74.
For all the crying they did about the immaculate reception. Branch clearly trapped the ball, got up and ran for a TD