DanielPlainview
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I think once you get below 4.5 you get into the zone where read progression development is stunted due to running
OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy
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Night Shift
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Honestly it was their defense is what made them a force in the early to mid 90s. Without that Cunningham probably never gets to the playoffs. It went downhill after Mike Tomlin Kotite took over.
He did have that one year wonder in Minnesota though.
Buddy Bizarre
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He also played in a time where the Giants/49ers/Bears ruled the NFC thoroughly. He didn't have many weapons on offense either.
So what he did was impressive. But there aren't many RC's in this world and none of these QB's in this class will approach his success.
Double-Shift Lasse
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The discussion of best ever running QBs needs more Fran Tarkenton.
sadly there aren't many on this board that even remembers him ........
Buddy Bizarre
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Factorial
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Saw the intro of an episode and That's Incredible and there was Fran as one of the hosts. I never watched that as a kid and forgot he was on it.
uh, i only know about him from my dad. yeah thats it! thats my story and i'm sticking to it.
i'm sure there are some clips of him on you tube. if you can look him up it would be worth it.
Factorial
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I remember him from super bowl IX and the NFL Films weekly highlights show. He could scramble and pass to say the least.
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Mr Jiggyfly
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He was before my time, but I was a massive football fan as a kid and watched a lot of full NFL games on VHS and he was more in line with being a scrambler than a running QB.
FT was more Elway than Vick, Jackson, Cunningham, etc.
FT never really broke 400 yards. They did play 14 games in fairness, but through most of his career his rushing stats are definitely more aligned with Elway.
Runners like Vick and Jackson broke 1000 yards and Cunningham hit 900 once.
The true runners usually hovered around 600-700+ yards, including Cam Newton.
And Bobby Douglass.
You have to be a real dinosaur to remember him, but he was a runner.... who couldn't throw the ball to save his life. Actually he had a great arm, but he had nothing to guide it with.
Put him in a 21st-century dink-'n'-dump offense where all you have do is get the ball 5 yards downfield and hope the receiver breaks some tackles, and even Douglass might have been able to get to 60% completions. Well, maybe 50% anyway.
Double-Shift Lasse
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Agree but some context is needed to the raw numbers. Tarkenton retired as the top-rushing QB in career yards.
Mr Jiggyfly
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Context with stats will always be needed when guys played generations apart.
FT was kind of a freak athlete compared to his peers, but defenses in that era weren’t exactly known for being fast and freakishly athletic.
Just feel it’s only fair to give the nod to the guys who put up way higher rush numbers agt much more athletic defenses.
So best running QB of his era? Ya.
In the discussion for top 4-5 guys all time… nah.
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Double-Shift Lasse
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I mean thats just kinda how it works.
Bigger, faster, with more information
Bobby Douglass was freaky to watch because he was left-handed and because of his running ability. He was mostly a novelty act of sorts, IIRC. Roger Staubach was also known for his scrambling (Roger the Dodger), but I don't think he actually rushed that often. I'd guess he didn't have nearly the Ru yards of Tarkenton.
Mr Jiggyfly
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Made it pretty clear I felt they were the best all time at being running QBs.
Any narrative you want to create beyond that is your choice.
Mr Jiggyfly
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Wasn’t RS in the Navy? Going off memory but he didn’t start in the NFL until he was 27-28 years old.
FT started at 20-21. He played like 18 years vs 10-11 for RS.
Their rushing numbers per season weren’t drastically different from what I recall.
Yep. He graduated from the Naval Academy and did time in the Navy before starting in the NFL. As a Cowboy of that era, it's hard to give him credit, but he was pretty damn good.
Mr Jiggyfly
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He won 2 SB with the Cowboys? Went to four (Steelers lol) and was a SB MVP. So he definitely did well for himself.
More impressive when you think about the late start he got in his career.
How did the Cowboys acquire him? Late round flyer or something? I’ll have to look that up…
Edit: Damn that was an interesting read…
He was a 10th round flyer in ‘64 by the Cowboys.
Served a tour in ‘Nam. Won two SBs. Started a real estate business. Sold his business for $600m 15 years ago.
Is now the wealthiest guy to ever play in the NFL.
That’s almost some Christopher Lee shit right there.
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Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Was supposed to be a question. Punctuation issues.
I’m going to draw a distinction between a QB who is best at running vs the best QB for whom running is a significant part of their game.
Vick et Al may have been been QBs who were better at running than Tarkenton, but none of Vick, Cunningham, Young have the combined passing/rushing yards that Tarkenton has just in passing.
When he retired, Tarkenton he’d career records for completions, yards and touchdowns, in addition to being the career rushing yards by QB record holder.
It’s a fruitless ‘debate,’ so I’ll leave it there. Indeed, I wasn’t even making the case for Tarkenton as ‘the best ever’ at anything, merely saying any discussion of all-time running QBs should at least include his name.
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you also need to take into consideration that there wasn't a "protect the qb" rule back then. if they both played by the same rules there would be a lot less running by the qb's now.
Buddy Bizarre
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The coaching staff and the front office skipped Ohio State‘s pro day to go watch a quarterback. For the last 18 years they were all in Columbus every single time. When Colbert said they would bring in two quarterbacks I’m sure that was a plan and not just a statement. Trubisky is only part one
