OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[OnMyOwn]

And Roth wasn’t the QB throwing all over Cincy, Indy and Denver… all on the road… beating Manning in his house… saving Bettis’ ass from infamy with a shoestring tackle?

You are making shit up.

I say Roth would have adapted, became ultra disciplined and won 5 SBs with Hoodie.

See, I can make up whatever scenario I like in my fantasy hypothetical just like you.

Everyone always leaves this out. They look at the super bowl alone that year and argue the team won in spite of him. We don’t even get close to that game without how well he played leading up to it. Especially Denver. He dominated the AFC Championship.

21/29 passing, 2 passing TDs and a rushing TD. 125 QBR.

There are a lot of reasons to complain about Ben, but he was a damn fine QB and holds records for the most perfect passer rating games most completions in a game and most games of 500+ yards passing. Led the league in passing twice, etc. etc.

He played in an era with a few of the best to ever do it and still held his own.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The argument really isn’t about those two - the resident Roth haters are just doing their thing again and trying to discredit him.

The entire point is that an ‘elite’ QB may not end up with as many SBs as a guy without the gaudy stats and personal hardware.

We can use Eli Manning in Roth’s place and the reality of the discussion remains the same.

We could have a similar scenario with Burrow and KP.

- KP plays a dozen years or so, becomes a good QB, puts up nice, not great stats, never wins any personal hardware, but wins a SB.

- Burrow plays a dozen years or so, and wins multiple MVPs and puts up gaudy stats, is labeled as one of the best of his generation, but never wins a SB.

Would you rather be a Steelers or Bengals fan in this scenario?

I know I’d rather be a Steelers or Giants fan in the real life Roth, Manning, Rodgers debate.

Yeah, I was just adding that there is clearly enough evidence to suggest that anyone whose position is that Rogers is a clear cut above Roethlisberger is purposefully ignoring half the evidence.

 

[Pens1566]

Ben's a first ballot HoF'er ... that's elite.

 

[Flying Dego]

How exactly does thinking Rodgers is better than Roethlisberger make someone a “hater”?

Why are people so sensitive? Like I still think Ben was somewhere near top 5 greatest all time at the position. But watching a ton of games other than Steelers games you can see Rodgers is a few slots higher at the position. Depends on peoples views but really Brady, Manning and Rodgers are likely the 3 best at the moment. Ben was just a bit under them in terms of overall play/health. Why is that a heinous take? Lol

To me Bens with the likes of Brees, Favre, Elway, etc. Heck honestly my dark horse guy that is the epitome of scorned by a bad team for his career is Stafford. That dude is awesome.

 

[Flying Dego]

Ben's a first ballot HoF'er ... that's elite.

No doubt he's a 1st ballot and elite. Some fans just get upset hearing a rare few were a bit better than him. That should be ok for people to hear.

 

[xlm34]

Why are people so sensitive? Like I still think Ben was somewhere near top 5 greatest all time at the position. But watching a ton of games other than Steelers games you can see Rodgers is a few slots higher at the position. Depends on peoples views but really Brady, Manning and Rodgers are likely the 3 best at the moment. Ben was just a bit under them in terms of overall play/health. Why is that a heinous take? Lol

To me Bens with the likes of Brees, Favre, Elway, etc. Heck honestly my dark horse guy that is the epitome of scorned by a bad team for his career is Stafford. That dude is awesome.

I don’t know. Roethlisberger has always been such a sensitive topic amongst Steelers fans. My view on him is really similar to you. He was a great player that was a massive part of the two Super Bowl wins and is one of the best QBs of his generation. But there were definitely a few that were better than him.

And using Super Bowls as proof that he was better than Rodgers is not the best argument in my opinion. Trent Dilfer has more Super Bowls than Dan Marino. Does that make him a better QB? f*** no. Your Stafford example is great. Did he magically become a better QB after leaving Detroit or did he just have a better team?

QBs are important to winning but you can’t ignore the rest of the roster. Or coaching as this board will love to remind you.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

How exactly does thinking Rodgers is better than Roethlisberger make someone a “hater”?

This has nothing to do with Rodgers and who is better - unreal.

I know who the posters are who hate him and have called him a rapist, and for years have used every excuse to discredit what he accomplished.

Not difficult to remember who these posters are when they have done the same thing over and over.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Throw

Throwing all over Cincinnati he didn’t even get to 250 yards and against the colts he was under 200 yards. He did reach 275 on 30 attempts against Denver. Ben hated play action he hated getting under center he didn’t even love studying film and practice no way would he adapted to hoodie.

Let’s keep rewriting history because you have a beef with Roth.

He threw all over the Bengals in the first half and they took a 28-17 lead into the fourth quarter and Cowher did what he does - went conservative and milked the clock.

Same deal in Indy. Threw all over the Colts in the first half and then Cowher tried to milk the 21-3 lead in the second half.

Roth then saved Cowher and Bettis with his famous shoestring tackle.

When your coach takes the air out of the ball in the second half, hard to finish with gaudy stats.

If Roth had Hoodie, he would have kept throwing and easily had 400 yards!

 

[Flying Dego]

This has nothing to do with Rodgers and who is better - unreal.

I know who the posters are who hate him and have called him a rapist, and for years have used every excuse to discredit what he accomplished.

Not difficult to remember who these posters are.

My convo with you was strictly this...you view Ben as better than Rodgers due to an extra SB win. Stats and actual career gameplay are only for fantasy goers as you say correct?

I don't know who you're talking about discrediting or calling Ben names...though again if you're honest with yourself younger Ben put himself in some bad situations. He only has himself to blame for the people that to this day dislike him.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Everyone always leaves this out. They look at the super bowl alone that year and argue the team won in spite of him. We don’t even get close to that game without how well he played leading up to it. Especially Denver. He dominated the AFC Championship.

21/29 passing, 2 passing TDs and a rushing TD. 125 QBR.

There are a lot of reasons to complain about Ben, but he was a damn fine QB and holds records for the most perfect passer rating games most completions in a game and most games of 500+ yards passing. Led the league in passing twice, etc. etc.

He played in an era with a few of the best to ever do it and still held his own.

He was the first QB to ever win three playoff games on the road that season as well.

Guess we should also take Brady’s first Sb away to because he did zilch there.

It’s the same old Roth haters doing what they always do.

Yeah, I was just adding that there is clearly enough evidence to suggest that anyone whose position is that Rogers is a clear cut above Roethlisberger is purposefully ignoring half the evidence.

That other poster, Diego or whatever, is the one who kept making this about who was better stats wise or some shit - I have no clue what he/she was on about.

Then the usual Roth haters did their thing.

All of them completely missed the reality of things no matter how many times I explained it.

Who cares which one was better stats wise and won regular season and fantasy championships?

Who cares about your made up hypothetical BS?

It was always about the point that Steeler fans and Giants fans would never trade their extra Lombardis for Rodgers MVPs.

It’s honestly not that hard of a concept to grasp.

My convo with you was strictly this...you view Ben as better than Rodgers due to an extra SB win. Stats and actual career gameplay are only for fantasy goers as you say correct?

I don't know who you're talking about discrediting or calling Ben names...though again if you're honest with yourself younger Ben put himself in some bad situations. He only has himself to blame for the people that to this day dislike him.

Nah, you just have reading comprehension issues.

You made it about who was better stats wise, like that means anything agt having an extra SB.

I’ve also said countless times Ben was a douche, but that doesn’t mean his accomplishments don’t count.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Throw

Throwing all over Cincinnati he didn’t even get to 250 yards and against the colts he was under 200 yards. He did reach 275 on 30 attempts against Denver. Ben hated play action he hated getting under center he didn’t even love studying film and practice no way would he adapted to hoodie.

It's obvious you hate Ben.

Note in those games you referenced, they threw to the lead and ran to the win. Bet if you broke those yards down by quarter he accumulated 70+% of his passing yards by the 2nd Quarter

 

[ImporterExporter]

Aaron Rodgers is better than Ben. Beat him head to head in the SB, vastly outplaying him. The only reason that game wasn't a blowout was GB receivers dropped about 17 passes.

4 time MVP. Ben's never even been a finalist. Ben was largely shit in SBXL as well, so that 2-1 shit is lazy.

If your only reason for saying Ben is better is 2-1 SB advantage, I guess Terry Bradshaw is a top 5 QB all time.

My family is from Pittsburgh dating back to them coming over on the boats in the early 1900's. I'm a diehard Pittsburgh fan, but in no way is Ben a better QB than AR.

Just stop.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Aaron Rodgers is better than Ben. Beat him head to head in the SB, vastly outplaying him. The only reason that game wasn't a blowout was GB receivers dropped about 17 passes.

4 time MVP. Ben's never even been a finalist. Ben was largely shit in SBXL as well, so that 2-1 shit is lazy.

If your only reason for saying Ben is better is 2-1 SB advantage, I guess Terry Bradshaw is a top 5 QB all time.

My family is from Pittsburgh dating back to them coming over on the boats in the early 1900's. I'm a diehard Pittsburgh fan, but in no way is Ben a better QB than AR.

Just stop.

Another poster who suffers from reading comprehension. It's spreading like a virus of stupidity all around me.

Even when it's explained half a dozen times and made crystal clear what the point was, the nonsense continues.

Maybe if we swap out Eli with Roth the point would get home... oh wait, that would still require reading comprehension.

Dang.

Some people just can't be reached I suppose.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Whatever you say bub.

 

[xlm34]

Another poster who suffers from reading comprehension. It's spreading like a virus of stupidity all around me.

Even when it's explained half a dozen times and made crystal clear what the point was, the nonsense continues.

Maybe if we swap out Eli with Roth the point would get home... oh wait, that would still require reading comprehension.

Dang.

Some people just can't be reached I suppose.

Man you’re just way smarter than the rest of us I guess. Good for you.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

It's obvious you hate Ben.

Note in those games you referenced, they threw to the lead and ran to the win. Bet if you broke those yards down by quarter he accumulated 70+% of his passing yards by the 2nd Quarter

Yeah all of bens playoff success was as a game manager the team only won one playoff game that he threw 3 tds in and that was the Cincinnati debacle. When he was gunslinger Ben he had no success. It’s why the bulk of his playoff wins came early in his career and only had 3 wins since the Packers super bowl loss

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I thought all the losses since then were Mike Tomlin's fault?

 

[Peat]

We can play hypothetical games like what if Roth played for Hoodie or what if Cowher stayed as the Steelers coach - but that is a universe we don’t exist in.

I’ll take the guy that was never considered elite with his two SBs over the guy who won multiple MVPs and regular season FF championships, but one SB.

It’s not difficult to understand how this ties into KP and not caring if he’s ever some fantasy stat god that wins a chest full of MVPs.

All that matters is if he can get it done in the playoffs - making stat geeks happy in the regular season makes little difference to me.

I don't think anyone is disputing that. That seems to be pretty much accepted.

It's phrasing it as Ben was better than Rodgers because he won more superbowls that turns it into people disagreeing. If that wasn't your intention, that's what it comes across as.

I'll say that I don't care who is what quality as long as the team wins and leaves it there.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Crunching the Numbers: Big stats and playoff wins don’t always go hand-in-hand

Ben Roethlisberger has much lower numbers in post season games where the Steelers are victorious.

www.behindthesteelcurtain.com

 

[wheelz87]

And Roth wasn’t the QB throwing all over Cincy, Indy and Denver… all on the road… beating Manning in his house… saving Bettis’ ass from infamy with a shoestring tackle?

You are making shit up.

I say Roth would have adapted, became ultra disciplined and won 5 SBs with Hoodie.

See, I can make up whatever scenario I like in my fantasy hypothetical just like you.

I get so effing tired of hearing about Ben vs Seattle. Wasn’t his finest game, sure. Absolutely shredded Cincy, Indy, and Denver. No credit. It’s whatever. Bens the worst human ever and that cancels out all the wins and what not.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Sitting here and saying it’s better to be a Steeler or Giant fan over a Packer fan in that time period… that’s not black and white. Pretty subjective based on what a fan watches for.

I’d sure as hell rather be a Pack fan than a Giant fan, 2-1 SBs or not.

I’d rather be a Steelers fan, but I’m biased. I wonder what a neutral poll would say.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Man you’re just way smarter than the rest of us I guess. Good for you.

Whatever you say bub.

Reading comprehension and understanding reality goes a long way....

The fans and organizations are going to value SB wins over stats and MVPs.

Again, if you struggle to grasp that concept, that's your own issues.

No true Giants fan or Steelers fan would trade away a Lombardi for an MVP trophy.

It's silliness.

I don't think anyone is disputing that. That seems to be pretty much accepted.

It's phrasing it as Ben was better than Rodgers because he won more superbowls that turns it into people disagreeing. If that wasn't your intention, that's what it comes across as.

I'll say that I don't care who is what quality as long as the team wins and leaves it there.

It was never phrased that way. It was phrased as a fact, because that's what it is. 2-1 SB.

One guy who was never touted as being 'elite' had more SB wins than the guy with 'elite stats'.

So being labeled as 'elite' doesn't guarantee a guy will win Sbs.

It's not a difficult point to understand for about the tenth time.

I never brought regular season stats into the discussion or stated who I thought was better overall - that was another poster who kept pushing that agenda along with regular season stats, like that would suddenly change who had more SB rings.

You and a couple others then brought up the hypotheticals and more stats - which was again not going to change what the current reality was.

Through it all, the hard truth is that at the end of the day to fans, owners and coaches, SB wins trumps all.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I once again had to keep explaining stats don't matter at the end of the day to fans, owners and coaches, only SB wins.

Disagree. Different people want different things. A lot of people watch for entertainment. Many are invested in fantasy football. Now gambling is massive.

Guy I work with has no team and just pools 5 figure money with his buddies on a few well researched bets. Biggest NFL fan ever.

It’s definitely not that black and white from the fan side of things.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Disagree. Different people want different things. A lot of people watch for entertainment. Many are invested in fantasy football. Now gambling is massive.

Guy I work with has no team and just pools 5 figure money with his buddies on a few well researched bets. Biggest NFL fan ever.

It’s definitely not that black and white from the fan side of things.

And some fans are of teams that have no chance of winning anything that is why redzone channel is so popular because of fantasy and gambling

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Disagree. Different people want different things. A lot of people watch for entertainment. Many are invested in fantasy football. Now gambling is massive.

Guy I work with has no team and just pools 5 figure money with his buddies on a few well researched bets. Biggest NFL fan ever.

It’s definitely not that black and white from the fan side of things.

Hence why I keep saying the hardcore/real fans of the team, not the casual FF fans.

I already stated earlier that I know fantasy stats have warped how some people view the game - pretty obvious just from reading the last couple pages actually.

Feel free to jump on the Rags board and ask how many Giants fans in there would trade away one of Manning’s Lombardis for a regular season MVP award.

100% sure how that poll would slant.