OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think there has to be some middle ground between his ceiling is a middling starter and he's the next great QB because of 2 pre-season games.

This is the internet though, so pick your side of the hot take and argue until death.

I honestly don't care if he's ever grouped with Burrows, Mahomes, Lawrence, Allen. Assuming he becomes "just" a good Qb, that doesn't mean he can't beat them one day when everything is on the line. If he can become, as the other poster wrote, an above avg starter, that will be a huge boon for this org.

Roth was never put in that group with Manning, Brady, Rodgers and he did ok.

Rodgers is touted as a generational guy and he has one Super Bowl ring and hasn't been back to the big game since - talking over a damn decade.

If KP becomes a good QB, but one who is never spoken as one of the best, all it will take is one great run for him to beat those top dogs and win a SB. If he just does that once, I think most of us would consider drafting him a big success.

Being a fantasy god everyone slobbers over and hails you as the best ever hasn't done Rodgers much good come playoff time.

 

[TotesTorts]

Having a very good but not great QB can certainly allow a team to spend elsewhere. It has some perks, though I think most would agree it's best to have an elite QB

 

[Monkey D Luffy]

I think he/she is just saying you can’t anoint someone until they have proven themselves.

Things have gone as well as we could have hoped to this point, but KP has many tougher tests ahead to pass.

However, a couple ppl on this page are already anointing Burrows as well and I don’t even agree with that.

Burrows has shown promise, but we need to wait a few years to see if he can sustain his success or if his playoff success was a one year thing.

KP is a couple yrs behind Burrows and first has to proof he can play well in the league.

Can he read exotic defenses and play under pressure? Can he win in the playoffs?

If he can accomplish those things, then he will be in a similar position as Burrows is now - Ie having to prove he can sustain his success.

Well, he's probably played in more football games than Joe Burrow to this point and he's the same age as Burrow was last year.

So far Pickett's best quality is his reads and quick decisions. When the games matter and the defense is trying to confuse him, maybe that changes but we haven't seen any proof of that yet.

 

[Peat]

Having a very good but not great QB can certainly allow a team to spend elsewhere. It has some perks, though I think most would agree it's best to have an elite QB

The big perk is not having to do stupid things like hand over 3 1sts to get a known sexual predator, or run QB competitions between Mayfield and Darnold, and so on and so on. Far more important to have a QB worth a damn at all than it is to have a super elite guy.



As for Pickett... tbh, I don't see any need to say anything much other than he's passed every test with flying colours and it's exciting to see what happens next. If he keeps being smart, swift and accurate, he'll do good things.

 

[TotesTorts]

I wouldn't classify either Mayfield or Darnold as "very good"

 

[Peat]

I wouldn't classify either Mayfield or Darnold as "very good"

Yes, that's my point, that's why having a very good QB spares you from having to run QB competitions with the two of them.

 

[Flying Dego]

I don't understand why you have to be so pessimistic. Not every successful QB is going to look the same. Some wear gloves, some don't, some are drafted in the 6th round and look super unathletic and become 6 time Superbowl champs. Let the guy play and if you're a Steelers fan cheer for him to do well.

His current stat line.

2 incompletions-not including the spike
3 touchdowns

None of what I said is pessimistic. I'll obviously root for him to succeed. Also a ceiling of above average QB would be like around 10-15 best in the league...that's pretty good.

To be fair Rudolph's stats in preseason also look stellar. So heavy grain of salt until games matter.

I'm just saying people gotta be realistic. The chances of another Ben level guy for the team is low. I just assume most fans are gonna overhype themselves and cry when Pickett goes through the mud. I expect him to look rough in game at first.

 

[Al Smith]

I honestly don't care if he's ever grouped with Burrows, Mahomes, Lawrence, Allen. Assuming he becomes "just" a good Qb, that doesn't mean he can't beat them one day when everything is on the line. If he can become, as the other poster wrote, an above avg starter, that will be a huge boon for this org.

Roth was never put in that group with Manning, Brady, Rodgers and he did ok.

Rodgers is touted as a generational guy and he has one Super Bowl ring and hasn't been back to the big game since - talking over a damn decade.

If KP becomes a good QB, but one who is never spoken as one of the best, all it will take is one great run for him to beat those top dogs and win a SB. If he just does that once, I think most of us would consider drafting him a big success.

Being a fantasy god everyone slobbers over and hails you as the best ever hasn't done Rodgers much good come playoff time.

I wasn't real impressed with Lawrence the other night, especially his accuracy. Maybe he just had a bad start. He was terrible last year, but that have just been a product of the sh*tshow that was Urban Meyer. Pederson is a big step up.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Well, he's probably played in more football games than Joe Burrow to this point and he's the same age as Burrow was last year.

So far Pickett's best quality is his reads and quick decisions. When the games matter and the defense is trying to confuse him, maybe that changes but we haven't seen any proof of that yet.

I've been screaming that KP is going to be a good damn NFL QB since Feb when I reviewed all his snaps last season, so I'm not disagreeing here.

However, Burrow has proven he can do it at the NFL level - and do it very well. But again, he has also only done that for one season.

He has a long way to go to be considered an elite QB.

KP hasn't even played in a real NFL game yet. So while I think he will be fine and then eventually a good Qb, he still has to actually do it.

I wasn't real impressed with Lawrence the other night, especially his accuracy. Maybe he just had a bad start. He was terrible last year, but that have just been a product of the sh*tshow that was Urban Meyer. Pederson is a big step up.

Ya, I sort of felt that way also.

He hasn't looked like what you expect from a generational hyped prospect, but he has so many crazy tools that I think he will eventually be up there with Mahomes and those guys.

He needs some actual weapons around him also - he can't throw and catch the ball. I don't think they even picked a skill position player until round 5 this past draft.

Right now who is their big name guy? Christian Kirk? Most people probably don't even know who he is.

 

[TotesTorts]

Yes, that's my point, that's why having a very good QB spares you from having to run QB competitions with the two of them.

Gotcha but I don't see how that's related to my point

 

[Peat]

Gotcha but I don't see how that's related to my point

My point is that discussing the perks of a Very Good QB vs an Elite QB gives a distorted view and that the main perks are to be found in viewing Very Good QB vs Not That Good QB

 

[TotesTorts]

Maybe, but the discussion was elite vs very good. Ben straddled that designation most of his career but ended up being paid as if he were elite, so we really haven't seen "very good" here since Neil O'Donnell or maybe that one season for Tom Maddox. At any rate, the point I was getting at was having a "very good" QB may allow a team to have that one extra difference-making player on the roster year after year that keeps them in contention.

 

[Monkey D Luffy]

Maybe, but the discussion was elite vs very good. Ben straddled that designation most of his career but ended up being paid as if he were elite, so we really haven't seen "very good" here since Neil O'Donnell or maybe that one season for Tom Maddox. At any rate, the point I was getting at was having a "very good" QB may allow a team to have that one extra difference-making player on the roster year after year that keeps them in contention.

Ben was elite and will be a first ballot hall of famer, nice try though.

 

[TotesTorts]

He was second tier elite, which I consider straddling the line of very good. He was never in the Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc. tier. Behind Matt Ryan in terms of QBing skill, easily. Fortunate to have played with better teams than Rivers.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Whether you'd call Ben "elite" depends on what you'd call guys like Rodgers, Brady and such. Ben isn't on that level, but he's a first ballot HoFer without a doubt. I'd probably call him "second tier elite", but you could easily call that another title that isn't "elite".

I think Ben was more of a stat accumulator from how long he played than a truly "elite" guy, but there is no question that he's going to end up in the HoF and his overall resume puts him on that second tier level.

 

[Flying Dego]

I think our best hope is Pickett ends up being a very good QB. I don't think it's realistic to think he'll be on a Rodgers level where he masks team deficiencies...and that's absolutely stellar if he hits his stride to be a long term starter.

The largest issue on our team is the line and the question marks on D even though it's the highest paid unit in the league. Those are the issues. It really is splitting hairs between Mitch and Kenny if the line is a sieve.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

if KP becomes a good QB, it will be pretty comical about his hands being the reason he slipped down to the Steelers.

Too small to hang on?

 

[Flying Dego]

Too small to hang on?

Leaked footage from his pre draft interview. Now we know the reason he slipped. It's all in the hands.

 

[JTG]

2013/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019

The Steelers did not draft a single offensive lineman in any of those drafts.

They did draft linemen in a few of those years, and specifically in 13, 15, 16, and 17, it was one of the better lines in football. The wheels started to fall off a bit in 18. They wouldn't have any need to draft linemen high in the draft those years.

I mean... nobody really knows anything, but Kenny doesn't strike me as the low-ceiling type from what I've seen so far. Some of the throws he's made are legit NFL star quarterback throws. He really looks ready to kick ass. Now about that O-line...

The big thing for Pickett is how he works under pressure. He has been known to get happy feet in the pocket and then things start to fall apart a bit. If he can show he has good pocket composure, he should be fine. His arm is more than strong enough, I love how he can place the ball on short-intermediate routes, and I love how he can run.

Whether you'd call Ben "elite" depends on what you'd call guys like Rodgers, Brady and such. Ben isn't on that level, but he's a first ballot HoFer without a doubt. I'd probably call him "second tier elite", but you could easily call that another title that isn't "elite".

I think Ben was more of a stat accumulator from how long he played than a truly "elite" guy, but there is no question that he's going to end up in the HoF and his overall resume puts him on that second tier level.

I get what you're saying, but I can't think of a real reason that he isn't elite. He really held a team together many years that had no business winning. Other than scrambling, I don't think there is anything Rodgers can do that Ben can't, or hasn't. I'm not the biggest Ben fan, but I do think there were times in his career he didn't get his due.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I get what you're saying, but I can't think of a real reason that he isn't elite. He really held a team together many years that had no business winning. Other than scrambling, I don't think there is anything Rodgers can do that Ben can't, or hasn't. I'm not the biggest Ben fan, but I do think there were times in his career he didn't get his due.

Rodgers has 4 MVPs. I don't even think Ben has gotten nominated for one in his entire career.

That's the difference between the Rodgers/Brady tier and the Ben tier. The Ben tier has QBs with multiple Super Bowl wins and a lot of stats accumulated from starting for a very long time. The Rodgers/Brady tier has that plus a lot of individual awards.

 

[Flying Dego]

I get what you're saying, but I can't think of a real reason that he isn't elite. He really held a team together many years that had no business winning. Other than scrambling, I don't think there is anything Rodgers can do that Ben can't, or hasn't. I'm not the biggest Ben fan, but I do think there were times in his career he didn't get his due.

Ben is honestly just a tier under Rodgers and that's no slight. Rodgers has led absolute atrocious offensive units to crazy records.

Ben could carry an offense in his prime better than most no doubt. Rodgers likely goes down as what the 2nd or 3rd best QB ever? Ben is just a level below that and still a 1st ballot guy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He was second tier elite, which I consider straddling the line of very good. He was never in the Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc. tier. Behind Matt Ryan in terms of QBing skill, easily. Fortunate to have played with better teams than Rivers.

Rivers played on some very good SD teams and never got over the hump.

He wasn’t a money QB, just a fantasy football hero type and that is reflected in his 5-7 playoff career record.

Roth and Manning got it done four times and were simply better QBs when all the chips were on the table.

I think our best hope is Pickett ends up being a very good QB. I don't think it's realistic to think he'll be on a Rodgers level where he masks team deficiencies...and that's absolutely stellar if he hits his stride to be a long term starter.

The largest issue on our team is the line and the question marks on D even though it's the highest paid unit in the league. Those are the issues. It really is splitting hairs between Mitch and Kenny if the line is a sieve.

Gotta ask again - what has being elite gotten Rodgers the last decade+ ?

As far as the line, I’d hope they would start investing premium assets into fixing it over the next several years.

If KP works out and they have all of their skill position players set, there are zero reasons not to invest in their o-line.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Rodgers has 4 MVPs. I don't even think Ben has gotten nominated for one in his entire career.

That's the difference between the Rodgers/Brady tier and the Ben tier. The Ben tier has QBs with multiple Super Bowl wins and a lot of stats accumulated from starting for a very long time. The Rodgers/Brady tier has that plus a lot of individual awards.

Brady is really in his own class when I think about it, but I’ll take a QB who wins multiple SBs over one who won just one and lines his trophy case with MVPs.

MVP awards don’t really mean much if you can’t deliver when it really matters.

Doubt GB fans care a whole lot about Rodgers MVPs when he’s choked away 4 championship games in the last 7 years.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

And what would an OL in 2013 have done for us now? They had a top 5 line in the league for a good portion of the 2010s so it really wouldn’t have helped then either

They had a good line for a few years because of their Oline coach, not their talent

Ben is honestly just a tier under Rodgers and that's no slight. Rodgers has led absolute atrocious offensive units to crazy records.

Ben could carry an offense in his prime better than most no doubt. Rodgers likely goes down as what the 2nd or 3rd best QB ever? Ben is just a level below that and still a 1st ballot guy.

The Steelers only had a good offense with Roethlisberger when they had Brown in his prime.

 

[Flying Dego]

They had a good line for a few years because of their Oline coach, not their talent


The Steelers only had a good offense with Roethlisberger when they had Brown in his prime.

If you have watched football the past two decades its not even debatable ...Rodgers is a tier above Ben. I say this as a guy born and raised from Pittsburgh.

Brady and Rodgers are a cut above.