OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If you have watched football the past two decades its not even debatable ...Rodgers is a tier above Ben. I say this as a guy born and raised from Pittsburgh.

Brady and Rodgers are a cut above.

Rodgers is a cut above at what though? Running up fantasy stats in the regular season and collecting MVPs?

Cool.

He’s 1-4 in championship games, 11-10 as a playoff starter, and just melted down again agt SF yet again… he’s what now, 0-4 agt them in the playoffs now?

Roth has more SBs and more playoff wins. Ultimately that’s what is important and there is no legit argument around that.

Labels and fantasy stats don’t matter - playoff results and SBs are what matter.

 

[Flying Dego]

Rodgers is a cut above at what though? Running up fantasy stats in the regular season and collecting MVPs?

Cool.

He’s 1-4 in championship games, 11-10 as a playoff starter, and just melted down again agt SF yet again… he’s what now, 0-4 agt them in the playoffs now?

Roth has more SBs and more playoff wins. Ultimately that’s what is important and there is no legit argument around that.

Labels and fantasy stats don’t matter - playoff results and SBs are what matter.

55,360 yards - 449 tds - 93 ints
14 years as a starter

64,418 yards - 418 tds- 211 ints
18 years as a starter

No need to label who's who. And no need to wear Homer glasses

 

[xlm34]

They had a good line for a few years because of their Oline coach, not their talent


The Steelers only had a good offense with Roethlisberger when they had Brown in his prime.

Ehh I think it was a little bit of both. Munchak was a really good coach, but that line wasn’t really lacking talent. Pouncey was a first round pick. DeCastro was a first round pick. Marcus Gilbert was a second round pick. Ramon Foster was already a starter by the time Munchak came along.

He definitely deserves credit, but sometimes I think he almost gets too much.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Rodgers is a cut above at what though? Running up fantasy stats in the regular season and collecting MVPs?

Cool.

He’s 1-4 in championship games, 11-10 as a playoff starter, and just melted down again agt SF yet again… he’s what now, 0-4 agt them in the playoffs now?

Roth has more SBs and more playoff wins. Ultimately that’s what is important and there is no legit argument around that.

Labels and fantasy stats don’t matter - playoff results and SBs are what matter.

And Ben finished his career 13-10 in the playoffs with 36 tds and 28 interceptions. In his last 3 wins he combined for 3 tds.
Rodgers has close to 6,000 and 45 tds to 13 interceptions

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

55,360 yards - 449 tds - 93 ints
14 years as a starter

64,418 yards - 418 tds- 211 ints
18 years as a starter

No need to label who's who. And no need to wear Homer glasses

2 SBS - 1 SB.

No need to label who is who.

Do GMs, coaches and owners draft QBs to put up fancy fantasy stats?

If you can’t look past fantasy stats and realize why the game is actually played, not much I can do about it.

Roth has more playoff wins and more SBs.

Straight facts.

The era of fantasy sports has deluded fan’s perception of what matters.

Good luck find a hardcore Packers fan that would be happier with a Rodgers MVP over a Lombardi.

And Ben finished his career 13-10 in the playoffs with 36 tds and 28 interceptions. In his last 3 wins he combined for 3 tds.
Rodgers has close to 6,000 and 45 tds to 13 interceptions

Again you are spouting off meaningless stats that mean zilch.

2 SBs vs 1.

That’s all that matters at the end of the day.

Fancy stats don’t mean anything. SBs do.

Rodgers being 1-4 in championship games is a huge black mark on his career.

There is no debating that if you understand what matters - SBs.

 

[Flying Dego]

2 SBS - 1 SB.

No need to label who is who.

Do GMs, coaches and owners draft QBs to put up fancy fantasy stats?

If you can’t look past fantasy stats and realize why the game is actually played, not much I can do about it.

Roth has more playoff wins and more SBs.

Straight facts.

The era of fantasy sports has deluded fan’s perception of what matters.

Good luck find a hardcore Packers fan that would be happier with a Rodgers MVP over a Lombardi.

Na. If you watched the two play one is clearly a better QB. The Steelers teams especially Roths first SB won us those.

If you were to poll fans just in a vacuum who is the better QB. I would be drop dead shocked if at minimum 90% wasn't for Rodgers.

Why would anyone take offense to this? Ben was an all time great. He's just not quite at the extreme top and that's ok. Ben also aged like s***.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Na. If you watched the two play one is clearly a better QB. The Steelers teams especially Roths first SB won us those.

If you were to poll fans just in a vacuum who is the better QB. I would be drop dead shocked if at minimum 90% wasn't for Rodgers.

Why would anyone take offense to this? Ben was an all time great. He's just not quite at the extreme top and that's ok. Ben also aged like s***.

I don’t care what fans say - this point couldn’t be anymore clear.

2 SBs -1.

Roth won three on the road… beat Manning in his house and went to Mile High and threw all over them - but let’s take credit away from him to win an argument you already lost.

You honestly think a fan poll that had 99% of the people say Rodgers is a better QB would make me lose the enjoyment of having that extra Lombardi the Packers are lacking?

This isn’t a difficult point to understand.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I mean bens injury ruined him. He adapted his game and led the league in passing right before he blew his elbow out.

 

[Flying Dego]

I don’t care what fans say - this point couldn’t be anymore clear.

2 SBs -1.

Roth won three on the road… beat Manning in his house and went to Mile High and threw all over them - but let’s take credit away from him to win an argument you already lost.

You honestly think a fan poll that had 99% of the people say Rodgers is a better QB would make me lose the enjoyment of having that extra Lombardi the Packers are lacking?

This isn’t a difficult point to understand.

You're moving goal posts as the kids say. Since you're a man of Pittsburgh, clearly ill make this easy enough. You're argument would be like me saying Crosby and his 3 cups makes him better than Mario and his 2 cups. It makes no sense when the question is who's better?

I'm a lifelong steelers fan but I refuse to be that jaded.

Rodgers is 38 and still gonna contend as the best QB in the league. What is your issue with that exactly?

 

[Peat]

Superbowls and playoff wins are more important than individual stats, but they're team stats and I only trust them to say which team performed better, no which QB was better. Would the Steelers have more or less SBs if they'd had Rodgers rather than Ben? My money certainly ain't on less.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You're moving goal posts as the kids say. Since you're a man of Pittsburgh, clearly ill make this easy enough. You're argument would be like me saying Crosby and his 3 cups makes him better than Mario and his 2 cups. It makes no sense when the question is who's better?

I'm a lifelong steelers fan but I refuse to be that jaded.

Rodgers is 38 and still gonna contend as the best QB in the league. What is your issue with that exactly?

I hate Pgh as a city, so don’t presume anything - just makes this debate dumber.

You clearly can’t grasp the point so I’ll make it easier for you - fancy stats mean zilch at the end of the day.

Which guy the fans think is better means zilch.

What matters is who has more SB wins - that is concrete. You can literally see that when you look at the Steelers trophy case with 6 Lombardis.

I’m 100% sure any hardcore Packers fans would trade all of Rodgers MVPs for one Lombardi.

His fancy stats and elite label and GOAT and whatever else you want to bestow upon him hasn’t helped him win anymore SBs the last 11 years.

 

[Flying Dego]

I hate Pgh as a city, so don’t presume anything - just makes this debate dumber.

You clearly can’t grasp the point so I’ll make it easier for you - fancy stats mean zilch at the end of the day.

Which guy the fans think is better means zilch.

What matters is who has more SB wins - that is concrete. You can literally see that when you look at the Steelers trophy case with 6 Lombardis.

I’m 100% sure any hardcore Packers fans would trade all of Rodgers MVPs for one Lombardi.

His fancy stats and elite label and GOAT and whatever else you want to bestow upon him hasn’t helped him win anymore SBs the last 11 years.

Schnikes you got a weird outlook my dude. If thinking Ben is better than Rodgers because he's got the extra super bowl don't let me stand in your way!

As @Peat stated you put Rodgers on the Steelers with our defenses I'm not betting he's under 2 super bowls.

Rodgers is a better QB. That's just plain truth. But football requires a large team to be successful and coaching matters.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Superbowls and playoff wins are more important than individual stats, but they're team stats and I only trust them to say which team performed better, no which QB was better. Would the Steelers have more or less SBs if they'd had Rodgers rather than Ben? My money certainly ain't on less.

We can play hypothetical games like what if Roth played for Hoodie or what if Cowher stayed as the Steelers coach - but that is a universe we don’t exist in.

I’ll take the guy that was never considered elite with his two SBs over the guy who won multiple MVPs and regular season FF championships, but one SB.

It’s not difficult to understand how this ties into KP and not caring if he’s ever some fantasy stat god that wins a chest full of MVPs.

All that matters is if he can get it done in the playoffs - making stat geeks happy in the regular season makes little difference to me.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Schnikes you got a weird outlook my dude. If thinking Ben is better than Rodgers because he's got the extra super bowl don't let me stand in your way!

As @Peat stated you put Rodgers on the Steelers with our defenses I'm not betting he's under 2 super bowls.

Rodgers is a better QB. That's just plain truth. But football requires a large team to be successful and coaching matters.

I have a weird outlook because I prefer having 2 SBs over 1?

Like how hard is it to get this point?

I don’t care who is considered the better regular season QB - you keep harping on that point like it means anything.

Me - Ben has more SBs I’ll take that all day.

You - But Rodgers stats and MVPs!

Me - Uh, SBs

You - Stats!!!

You think Giant fans care if Rodgers is considered better than Manning when they have an extra Lombardi as well?

I have no idea how you still can’t grasp this obvious point.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Rodgers is a cut above at what though? Running up fantasy stats in the regular season and collecting MVPs?

Cool.

He’s 1-4 in championship games, 11-10 as a playoff starter, and just melted down again agt SF yet again… he’s what now, 0-4 agt them in the playoffs now?

Roth has more SBs and more playoff wins. Ultimately that’s what is important and there is no legit argument around that.

Labels and fantasy stats don’t matter - playoff results and SBs are what matter.

Roethlisberger has melted down in the playoffs time and time again. He just had a top 5 defense all time for his first 7 years

 

[metalan2]

Steelers oline may be the worst in the league again. How can this be possible?

 

[Ms Maggie]

None of what I said is pessimistic. I'll obviously root for him to succeed. Also a ceiling of above average QB would be like around 10-15 best in the league...that's pretty good.

To be fair Rudolph's stats in preseason also look stellar. So heavy grain of salt until games matter.

I'm just saying people gotta be realistic. The chances of another Ben level guy for the team is low. I just assume most fans are gonna overhype themselves and cry when Pickett goes through the mud. I expect him to look rough in game at first.

The best thing KP will have going for him is what looks to be a great group of receivers. Covers a lot of sins and can build confidence. We shall see.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Steelers oline may be the worst in the league again. How can this be possible?

Well it would not be again since last year wasn’t even the worst in the league it was bottom 5 for sure. It’s a young group who will take time to gel and you hope gets better

 

[bigdaddyk88]

We can play hypothetical games like what if Roth played for Hoodie or what if Cowher stayed as the Steelers coach - but that is a universe we don’t exist in.

I’ll take the guy that was never considered elite with his two SBs over the guy who won multiple MVPs and regular season FF championships, but one SB.

It’s not difficult to understand how this ties into KP and not caring if he’s ever some fantasy stat god that wins a chest full of MVPs.

All that matters is if he can get it done in the playoffs - making stat geeks happy in the regular season makes little difference to me.

Ben wouldn’t have survived under hoodie and hoodie hasn’t won anything without Brady. Cowher didn’t even want to draft Ben. You think if Cowher was the coach Ben would not be a turnover machine in the playoffs a guy who had a ton of empty stats in blow outs in the playoffs. The team won the sb inspite of Ben against Seattle

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Roethlisberger has melted down in the playoffs time and time again. He just had a top 5 defense all time for his first 7 years

And Roth won a SB with one of the worst starting o-lines in SB history.

The Steelers had some of the greatest defenses of the 90s under Cowher and never won a SB.

Steelers went 25 years between SBs until Roth came.

They had all these great Ds and never won… what could that X factor have been that changed it all and they started winning SBs?

We can play these silly games and hypotheticals all day.

Hey what if Bledsoe never got hurt and Hoodie drafted Roth!

He’d have like 4-5 SB rings!

What matters are SBs. The Steelers entire org philosophy they state before every season is “our goal is to win the SB”.

Their goal isn’t to have their QB win fantasy stats championships and collect MVPs.

Roth has delivered 2 SBs to this franchise and Rodgers has delivered one for his.

Dance around that all you want, come up with all the excuses and hypotheticals you want, it won’t change reality though.

Being labeled ‘elite’ for winning fantasy football doesn’t mean a guy will deliver more SBs to his franchise.

That is again, the overall point here that so many of you are struggling to grasp with your made up scenarios and what ifs.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Ben wouldn’t have survived under hoodie and hoodie hasn’t won anything without Brady. Cowher didn’t even want to draft Ben. You think if Cowher was the coach Ben would not be a turnover machine in the playoffs a guy who had a ton of empty stats in blow outs in the playoffs. The team won the sb inspite of Ben against Seattle

And Roth wasn’t the QB throwing all over Cincy, Indy and Denver… all on the road… beating Manning in his house… saving Bettis’ ass from infamy with a shoestring tackle?

You are making shit up.

I say Roth would have adapted, became ultra disciplined and won 5 SBs with Hoodie.

See, I can make up whatever scenario I like in my fantasy hypothetical just like you.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Superbowls and playoff wins are more important than individual stats, but they're team stats and I only trust them to say which team performed better, no which QB was better. Would the Steelers have more or less SBs if they'd had Rodgers rather than Ben? My money certainly ain't on less.

I’d say less, easily.

And since there’s no way to ever know, we’re both safe in our contention.

If the argument is simply Rogers v Roethlisberger, it seems to me the stats are close enough and the postseason records close enough to suggest that neither is a “clear level above” the other.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I’d say less, easily.

And since there’s no way to ever know, we’re both safe in our contention.

If the argument is simply Rogers v Roethlisberger, it seems to me the stats are close enough and the postseason records close enough to suggest that neither is a “clear level above” the other.

The argument really isn’t about those two - the resident Roth haters are just doing their thing again and trying to discredit him.

The entire point is that an ‘elite’ QB may not end up with as many SBs as a guy without the gaudy stats and personal hardware.

We can use Eli Manning in Roth’s place and the reality of the discussion remains the same.

We could have a similar scenario with Burrow and KP.

- KP plays a dozen years or so, becomes a good QB, puts up nice, not great stats, never wins any personal hardware, but wins a SB.

- Burrow plays a dozen years or so, and wins multiple MVPs and puts up gaudy stats, is labeled as one of the best of his generation, but never wins a SB.

Would you rather be a Steelers or Bengals fan in this scenario?

I know I’d rather be a Steelers or Giants fan in the real life Roth, Manning, Rodgers debate.

 

[xlm34]

The argument really isn’t about those two - the resident Roth haters are just doing their thing again and trying to discredit him.

The entire point is that an ‘elite’ QB may not end up with as many SBs as a guy without the gaudy stats and personal hardware.

We can use Eli Manning in Roth’s place and the reality of the discussion remains the same.

We could have a similar scenario with Burrow and KP.

- KP plays a dozen years or so, becomes a good QB, puts up nice, not great stats, never wins any personal hardware, but wins a SB.

- Burrow plays a dozen years or so, and wins multiple MVPs and puts up gaudy stats, is labeled as one of the best of his generation, but never wins a SB.

Would you rather be a Steelers or Bengals fan in this scenario?

I know I’d rather be a Steelers or Giants fan in the real life Roth, Manning, Rodgers debate.

How exactly does thinking Rodgers is better than Roethlisberger make someone a “hater”?

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Throw

And Roth wasn’t the QB throwing all over Cincy, Indy and Denver… all on the road… beating Manning in his house… saving Bettis’ ass from infamy with a shoestring tackle?

You are making shit up.

I say Roth would have adapted, became ultra disciplined and won 5 SBs with Hoodie.

See, I can make up whatever scenario I like in my fantasy hypothetical just like you.

Throwing all over Cincinnati he didn’t even get to 250 yards and against the colts he was under 200 yards. He did reach 275 on 30 attempts against Denver. Ben hated play action he hated getting under center he didn’t even love studying film and practice no way would he adapted to hoodie.