OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

CheckingLineCenter

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Aug 10, 2018
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Hence why I keep saying the hardcore/real fans of the team, not the casual FF fans.

I already stated earlier that I know fantasy stats have warped how some people view the game - pretty obvious just from reading the last couple pages actually.

Feel free to jump on the Rags board and ask how many Giants fans in there would trade away one of Manning’s Lombardis for a regular season MVP award.

100% sure how that poll would slant.
Reg szn MVP I don’t care too much about.

I more mean I’d rather be the stable Packers with Rodgers and a real shot of going deep and winning every year than the up and down -now completely listless- Giants. I feel that is worth one less SB over such a long period of time. A lot more overall positive enjoyable seasons on the Packer side of things.

Doesn’t make me a non-“real” fan.
 
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Flying Dego

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Apr 30, 2013
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Hence why I keep saying the hardcore/real fans of the team, not the casual FF fans.

I already stated earlier that I know fantasy stats have warped how some people view the game - pretty obvious just from reading the last couple pages actually.

Feel free to jump on the Rags board and ask how many Giants fans in there would trade away one of Manning’s Lombardis for a regular season MVP award.

100% sure how that poll would slant.
I feel like I can solve your problem.

Let's agree on these things:
-The Steelers fans are happier than GB the past several years for having an extra SB. We luckily have built some stellar teams to do it.
-Rodgers is a better QB than Ben. That doesn't slight him, he's still one of the best at the position.

If you just agreed I feel like everyone would leave you alone...instead of trying to post long posts spinning a weird story about SB wins and how nothing else matters to fans and how everyone has comprehension issues.

I don't much partake in fantasy football but I can objectively view non steelers as better individual players than some of ours and still fully enjoy my teams success.
 

xlm34

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Dec 1, 2008
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Reading comprehension and understanding reality goes a long way....

The fans and organizations are going to value SB wins over stats and MVPs.

Again, if you struggle to grasp that concept, that's your own issues.

No true Giants fan or Steelers fan would trade away a Lombardi for an MVP trophy.

It's silliness.



It was never phrased that way. It was phrased as a fact, because that's what it is. 2-1 SB.

One guy who was never touted as being 'elite' had more SB wins than the guy with 'elite stats'.

So being labeled as 'elite' doesn't guarantee a guy will win Sbs.

It's not a difficult point to understand for about the tenth time.

I never brought regular season stats into the discussion or stated who I thought was better overall - that was another poster who kept pushing that agenda along with regular season stats, like that would suddenly change who had more SB rings.

You and a couple others then brought up the hypotheticals and more stats - which was again not going to change what the current reality was.

Through it all, the hard truth is that at the end of the day to fans, owners and coaches, SB wins trumps all.

But quarterbacks aren’t the only player on the team responsible for a Super Bowl win (Trent Dilfer anyone?) It’s a point you are completely missing that others are trying to bring to your attention.

When you’re comparing the Steelers two Super Bowl wins with Roethlisberger to the Packers one with Rodgers, it doesn’t just boil down to “Would you rather have Roethlisberger or Rodgers?” It’s would you rather have the Steelers roster during that period or the Packers roster during that period? No one can deny that Roethlisberger was a massive component to our wins, but he also doesn’t win without the 52 other guys on the roster.

If everyone on this board suffers from reading comprehension issues, maybe your points aren’t as clear as you think they are. And just saying I’m right and it’s obvious doesn’t make you right.
 
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Buddy Bizarre

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Yeah all of bens playoff success was as a game manager the team only won one playoff game that he threw 3 tds in and that was the Cincinnati debacle. When he was gunslinger Ben he had no success. It’s why the bulk of his playoff wins came early in his career and only had 3 wins since the Packers super bowl loss

So you agree that they threw to the lead and ran to the win in 2005?

In 2008 they had zippo of a ground game. Willie Parker was not the same player that he was years prior (he ended up w/ like 3.5 ypc)

Ben had a talented trio of guys in 2008 and he threw to them a ton.
Check out the stats



I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to dispel the "game manager" myth surrounding Ben's SB's
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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Reg szn MVP I don’t care too much about.

I more mean I’d rather be the stable Packers with Rodgers and a real shot of going deep and winning every year than the up and down -now completely listless- Giants. I feel that is worth one less SB over such a long period of time. A lot more overall positive enjoyable seasons on the Packer side of things.

Doesn’t make me a non-“real” fan.

You are talking about casual fans that follow a team because of FF and the teams true fans that follow them and buy team gear, buy season tickets, etc.

A dude in Brooklyn that grew up a Giants fan isn't the same as one who only followed them because Eli Manning was on his fantasy team.

This is a clear distinction between these types of fans.

Packers haven't won a SB in almost a dozen years and Rodgers is starting to hear the 'choker' whispers.

I don't think real Giants fans would be trading their extra Super Bowl for that.

Feel free to ask them if you think otherwise:


Real fans, not the ones who follow a team for fantasy reasons, aren't going to worry about stats over SBs, no matter how much you want to pretend they do.

They want SBs. So do the coaches. So do the owners.

That's always been the bottom line.

There is a reason why the Steelers goal is to win the SB every year.

I feel like I can solve your problem.

Let's agree on these things:
-The Steelers fans are happier than GB the past several years for having an extra SB. We luckily have built some stellar teams to do it.
-Rodgers is a better QB than Ben. That doesn't slight him, he's still one of the best at the position.

If you just agreed I feel like everyone would leave you alone...instead of trying to post long posts spinning a weird story about SB wins and how nothing else matters to fans and how everyone has comprehension issues.

I don't much partake in fantasy football but I can objectively view non steelers as better individual players than some of ours and still fully enjoy my teams success.

Nah, you still keep foolishly going on about who is better and it was never about that. You made it into that issue, then no matter how many different ways I explained to you it had zilch to do with that, you remained confused.

Instead you kept mindlessly spouting off stats and "Rodgers is better!!!"

Great. Does that remove a Lombardi trophy from the Steelers somehow?

I care that Roth brought more SBs to Pgh, period. I don't much care about his legacy - that's his own thing.

If he gets into the HOF or ppl consider his career better than Rodgers one day - won't be something I much care about.

None of that will take away the two Lombardis.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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But quarterbacks aren’t the only player on the team responsible for a Super Bowl win (Trent Dilfer anyone?) It’s a point you are completely missing that others are trying to bring to your attention.

When you’re comparing the Steelers two Super Bowl wins with Roethlisberger to the Packers one with Rodgers, it doesn’t just boil down to “Would you rather have Roethlisberger or Rodgers?” It’s would you rather have the Steelers roster during that period or the Packers roster during that period? No one can deny that Roethlisberger was a massive component to our wins, but he also doesn’t win without the 52 other guys on the roster.

If everyone on this board suffers from reading comprehension issues, maybe your points aren’t as clear as you think they are. And just saying I’m right and it’s obvious doesn’t make you right.

Dude, it was never about Rodgers vs Roth or playing hypothetical games and what happens if we switch this guy or that guy... and what if this guy had this and that guy had that coach!

The point was always about reality. I can't force people to live there when they want to keep playing hypothetical games just like you just once again.

How hard is it for you and a few of these others to live in the reality where Roth won more SBs for a few minutes?
 

xlm34

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Dec 1, 2008
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Dude, it was never about Rodgers vs Roth or playing hypothetical games and what happens if we switch this guy or that guy... and what if this guy had this and that guy had that coach!

The point was always about reality. I can't force people to live there when they want to keep playing hypothetical games just like you just once again.

How hard is it for you and a few of these others to live in the reality where Roth won more SBs for a few minutes?

Got it so you completely missed the point of what was originally discussed. That clears things up for me.

Also we had a very similar conversation about QBs and wins and whatever in the past and I’m pretty sure you came to the conclusion that Andy Dalton was better than Matt Stafford…soooo uh yeah. I think I’ll just be done with this whole conversation now.
 

bigdaddyk88

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Apr 21, 2019
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So you agree that they threw to the lead and ran to the win in 2005?

In 2008 they had zippo of a ground game. Willie Parker was not the same player that he was years prior (he ended up w/ like 3.5 ypc)

Ben had a talented trio of guys in 2008 and he threw to them a ton.
Check out the stats



I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to dispel the "game manager" myth surrounding Ben's SB's
You mean the guy that in the 2008 stretch combined for 3 tds that playoff run. He had 260 yards and played like garbage against Arizona in that super bowl but did throw the best pass I ever seen for the win
He is a 1st ballot HOF but was never in the mvp discussion and it’s a good thing he fell to Pittsburgh because without the team he wouldn’t have multiple sb
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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Got it so you completely missed the point of what was originally discussed. That clears things up for me.

Also we had a very similar conversation about QBs and wins and whatever in the past and I’m pretty sure you came to the conclusion that Andy Dalton was better than Matt Stafford…soooo uh yeah. I think I’ll just be done with this whole conversation now.

Ya, no clue what conversation you were having.

The conversation started with KP vs Burrow, that Burrow was elite and KP likely never will be.

I pointed out KP could maybe have more success than an elite guy like what Burrow may become and have more team success.

Pointed out Roth's 2 Sbs to Rodgers 1 Sb, even though most considered Rodgers to be the GOAT of this generation.

So whatever conversation you were in, welcome to this one.

Wait... didn't you say last year no guy in this QB class will be suitable for replacing Roth?

Guess I know where you stand on KP's chances right?
 

xlm34

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Dec 1, 2008
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Ya, no clue what conversation you were having.

The conversation started with KP vs Burrow, that Burrow was elite and KP likely never will be.

I pointed out KP could maybe have more success than an elite guy like what Burrow may become and have more team success.

Pointed out Roth's 2 Sbs to Rodgers 1 Sb, even though most considered Rodgers to be the GOAT of this generation.

So whatever conversation you were in, welcome to this one.

Wait... didn't you say last year no guy in this QB class will be a suitable starter?

Guess I know where you stand on KP's chances right?

And that point sprouted another discussion which was pretty much QB tiers and Rodgers vs Roethlisberger. Which is the conversation some people were trying to have. You really don’t have to participate in it if you don’t want.

And lmao at your Pickett comment. I was actually one of the ones who was talking about him as a possible option during the college season. I definitely flip flopped a few times on his potential but I’m on board now.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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And that point sprouted another discussion which was pretty much QB tiers and Rodgers vs Roethlisberger. Which is the conversation some people were trying to have. You really don’t have to participate in it if you don’t want.

And lmao at your Pickett comment. I was actually one of the ones who was talking about him as a possible option during the college season. I definitely flip flopped a few times on his potential but I’m on board now.

Uh, no.

My conversation was with one poster and you and others came in and diluted it with weird ass hypotheticals and went into some multiverses that didn't exist.

I stayed here in reality, so welcome back.

I was never in any conversation about which one of them was better, so no clue what you are rambling about.

Oh so now you are on the KP train.

That's... interesting.

And convenient.
 

xlm34

Registered User
Dec 1, 2008
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Uh, no.

My conversation was with one poster and you and others came in and diluted it with weird ass hypotheticals and went into some multiverses that didn't exist.

I stayed here in reality, so welcome back.

I was never in any conversation about which one of them was better, so no clue what you are rambling about.

Oh so now you are on the KP train.

That's... interesting.

And convenient.

Again lmao that you think I’m just conveniently on board with Pickett now.

Enjoy your day bro. Hopefully no one has the balls to try to disagree with something you say.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,436
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Again lmao that you think I’m just conveniently on board with Pickett now.

Enjoy your day bro. Hopefully no one has the balls to try to disagree with something you say.

Sure you aren't boss.

Enjoy your day as well. I'll try in the future not to have the balls to bring you and the other couple posters out of your fantasies in the NFL multiverse. My apologies for trying to keep it on track with my original point based in reality.

How cruel of me not to take any of Roth's 2 Sbs away and award Rodgers multiple fantasy SBs because this and that with some what ifs.

I see now how my refusal to not play along with your fantasies can be highly upsetting for some of you.
 
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OnMyOwn

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Sep 7, 2005
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I didn’t think that was the argument being made. It didn’t have anything to do with stats and individual hardware. No one is debating that some QBs out up godly stats.
 

xlm34

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Dec 1, 2008
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Sure you aren't boss.

Enjoy your day as well. I'll try in the future not to have the balls to bring you and the other couple posters out of your fantasies in the NFL multiverse. My apologies for trying to keep it on track with my original point based in reality.

How cruel of me not to take any of Roth's 2 Sbs away and award Rodgers multiple fantasy SBs because this and that with some what ifs.

I see now how my refusal to not play along with your fantasies can be highly upsetting for some of you.

Yeah Willis is just such a risk. I’m on the Pickett bandwagon. A system that plays to Trubisky’s strengths will play to Pickett’s so it’s a good situation.

The same goes for Ridder as well. Pittsburgh would be a good situation for him.

From March. Swing and miss there big guy. Have fun with your mindless ramblings and being a condescending douche to people.
 

metalan2

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May 30, 2008
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Throw

Throwing all over Cincinnati he didn’t even get to 250 yards and against the colts he was under 200 yards. He did reach 275 on 30 attempts against Denver. Ben hated play action he hated getting under center he didn’t even love studying film and practice no way would he adapted to hoodie.
He didn't need to throw for big yards against Indy. He immediately came out and threw 3 tds and the Steelers sat on the lead the entire rest of the game. That was big time QB performance.



well that’s about it for KP’s career. Every video this guy makes seems to jinx that player

But seriously— good vid, thought I should share.

Kurt Warner and JT O’Sullivan also made YouTube videos on Kenny today.

Does anything ever work out? Lol
 
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ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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Are we really disputing Ben's career until 2017 or so? Dumb. He was good to great and we won 2 SBs. He really dragged the franchise down in 2018 and beyond and the presumption that an athlete who never took care of himself deserved another $100M at age 37+ is dumb.

Before that I think the only qualms would be the substandard playoff performances in the Tebow game, the Baltimore game the next year, and the lack of TDs against Miami/KC/Cinci in 2016 etc. Really he was a mediocre playoff QB in the second half of his career. But ya gotta get there first. And he did that at an awesome clip.
 

Buddy Bizarre

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You mean the guy that in the 2008 stretch combined for 3 tds that playoff run. He had 260 yards and played like garbage against Arizona in that super bowl but did throw the best pass I ever seen for the win
He is a 1st ballot HOF but was never in the mvp discussion and it’s a good thing he fell to Pittsburgh because without the team he wouldn’t have multiple sb

Yes the same guy who probably had the worst OLine of any Sb winner in the past 25 years. Yup you've got it
 

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